Jeff Goodman: Conference Catchup: With Zeller back, Indiana looks like best of Big 10

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Hard to argue with picking the Gophers 6th. What I like reading is he considers the Gophers among the "strong 6". Now we need to go out and prove it, perhaps even sneak into the top 4 or 5. We're due.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Hard to argue with picking the Gophers 6th. What I like reading is he considers the Gophers among the "strong 6". Now we need to go out and prove it, perhaps even sneak into the top 4 or 5. We're due.
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I know Tubbys tenure here is a touchy subject, but if the gophers finish 6th It should be an easy decision for our new AD to let Tubby go at the end of his contract.

Honestly though, we have 2 of the top 15 players in the conferance( if trevor comes back healthy) and the Hollins duo are probably top 40 players in the conferance. All we need is 2 or 3 other guys to play average with this core. With this type of tallent, anything below a 4th place finish ( I'm even leaning towards 3rd) will be a season that we underachieved.
 

victor04 said:
I know Tubbys tenure here is a touchy subject, but if the gophers finish 6th It should be an easy decision for our new AD to let Tubby go at the end of his contract.

Honestly though, we have 2 of the top 15 players in the conferance( if trevor comes back healthy) and the Hollins duo are probably top 40 players in the conferance. All we need is 2 or 3 other guys to play average with this core. With this type of tallent, anything below a 4th place finish ( I'm even leaning towards 3rd) will be a season that we underachieved.
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I believe there are 4 Big Ten teams in the preseason top 10, so finishing 5th could very well mean we had a great season.
 


victor04 said:
I know Tubbys tenure here is a touchy subject, but if the gophers finish 6th It should be an easy decision for our new AD to let Tubby go at the end of his contract.
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Laughable.
 

So, those are pre season polls. Indiana and Michigan will be legit, but every other top team lost their best player, and we are gaining our best player. I'm fine with a 4th or 5th, but we have to look in a different younger more energizing direction if Tubby can't make a serious run with this group.

-Illini lost their lottry pick center ( though with weber gone, n a stable full of talent, I wouldn't be upset if they were ahead of us)
-mich st lost green, all American
-Ohio state lost Sullivan
-Wisconsin lost Taylor

yeah all these teams keep adding talent, n allways find a way to be solid, but tubby needs his best team at Minnesota to upend these consistently fellow overachieveing teams. If he can't, he doesn't deserve to get renewed
 

What if the Gophers finish 6th and go to the Sweet 16? Elite 8? Final 4? You want Tubby fired in any of those scenarios?
 

victor04 said:
I know Tubbys tenure here is a touchy subject, but if the gophers finish 6th It should be an easy decision for our new AD to let Tubby go at the end of his contract.

Honestly though, we have 2 of the top 15 players in the conferance( if trevor comes back healthy) and the Hollins duo are probably top 40 players in the conferance. All we need is 2 or 3 other guys to play average with this core. With this type of tallent, anything below a 4th place finish ( I'm even leaning towards 3rd) will be a season that we underachieved.
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Do you realize how strong the Big Ten is this season? Finishing 6th in conference could very well be top 25 nationally, probably a shoo-in for the tournament, and tied for Tubby's best finish at Minnesota. There is no way he gets fired for finishing 6th. The team will be talented not doubt, but we will likely be the only team in the top half of the conference without a 5-star recruit on the team (you could argue Wisconsin as well, I think only Scout gave Dekker 5 stars, Rivals gave him 4). Andy Katz had 4 Big Ten teams in the top 10 nationally, and 6 in the top 25. A 6th place finish in the strong 2012-13 Big Ten conference is no reason to fire the coach.

Personally, I hope we finish at least 5th, I think we are better than Wisconsin this year, and if we overachieve a bit, or if one of Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan State, or Michigan is overrated, we can finish top 4. The conference is very strong this year, and a 5th place finish is nothing to be disappointed in.
 



Cayman said:
The team will be talented not doubt, but we will likely be the only team in the top half of the conference without a 5-star recruit on the team (you could argue Wisconsin as well, I think only Scout gave Dekker 5 stars, Rivals gave him 4).
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Dekker is a 5-star on every recruiting site.
 

Of course a run in the tourney is what it's all about, but the only runs tubby has made in any tournaments over the last 6 or so years are the nit and the conferance tournaments, which I hope we can agree on, are meaningless.
 

Dekker, who cares what he's rated at he's a freshman. He could be solid, but he won't be a game changer. Plus freshman are not given th reins under Bo.

Yeah injuries have made Tubbys stay here difficult to gauge, but mainly I'm saying Tubby needS to finally do something with a team here.
 




victor04 said:
I know Tubbys tenure here is a touchy subject, but if the gophers finish 6th It should be an easy decision for our new AD to let Tubby go at the end of his contract.
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victor04 said:
Of course a run in the tourney is what it's all about, but the only runs tubby has made in any tournaments over the last 6 or so years are the nit and the conferance tournaments, which I hope we can agree on, are meaningless.
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victor04 said:
Dekker, who cares what he's rated at he's a freshman. He could be solid, but he won't be a game changer. Plus freshman are not given th reins under Bo.

Yeah injuries have made Tubbys stay here difficult to gauge, but mainly I'm saying Tubby needS to finally do something with a team here.
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Just quit while you're behind.
 


victor04 said:
Dekker, who cares what he's rated at he's a freshman. He could be solid, but he won't be a game changer. Plus freshman are not given th reins under Bo.

Yeah injuries have made Tubbys stay here difficult to gauge, but mainly I'm saying Tubby needS to finally do something with a team here.
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How do you know? Have you seen him play? I have, and I'm willing to bet he averages double digits next year. I really don't think that's even that bold of a prediction. By the way, Gasser got 28.1 minutes per game as a freshman, good for 3rd most on the team (more than senior Keaton Nankivil), so that kind of puts a hole in that theory. 5-stars being game changers as freshmen are not rare.
 

They really need to win some big games at home, a split with Wisconsin and Michigan State this year is very doable with wins at home.
 

Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that Indiana went from being gutted and having basically nothing to becoming one of the best teams in the nation in just a matter of years? It's frustrating to see it happen, considering we've toiled in mediocrity for the better part of two decades.
 

zipsofakron said:
Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that Indiana went from being gutted and having basically nothing to becoming one of the best teams in the nation in just a matter of years? It's frustrating to see it happen, considering we've toiled in mediocrity for the better part of two decades.
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It's Indiana, It's Indiana!

I'm more concerned with what we're going to see in Iowa over the next two seasons.
 

This can't be right...Only Tubby loses players to transfer:


Transfers
Coming: Sam McLaurin (Illinois from Coastal Carolina, eligible immediately), Rayvonte Rice (Illinois from Drake), Terran Petteway (Nebraska from Texas Tech), Jared Swopshire (Northwestern from Louisville, eligible immediately)

Going: Evan Smotrycz (Michigan to Maryland), Carlton Brundidge (Michigan), Colton Christian (Michigan), Chip Armelin (Minnesota to Southern Mississippi), Jorge Brian Diaz (Nebraska), Josiah Moore (Nebraska), Jordan Sibert (Ohio State to Dayton), JD Weatherspoon (Ohio State to Toledo), Peter Alexis (Penn State to Philly University), Matt Glover (Penn State to San Francisco), Trey Lewis (Penn State to Cleveland State), Kelsey Barlow (Purdue), John Hart (Purdue to IUPUI), Jared Utholff (Wisconsin)
 

zipsofakron said:
Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that Indiana went from being gutted and having basically nothing to becoming one of the best teams in the nation in just a matter of years? It's frustrating to see it happen, considering we've toiled in mediocrity for the better part of two decades.
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Indiana has name recognition that we don't have, and they'll have gotten something like 3 5-stars in 4 classes. Their drastic improvement last season surprised me though, seeing as they seemingly just added an elite big man to a 3-15 Big Ten team, and made it to the top 10 briefly and made the Sweet Sixteen. With improvement like that, you'd almost expect Sam Dekker to lead Wisconsin to a national title. We might have seen the same thing if not for countless injuries and transfers. Trevor and Royce could have taken dishes from Nolen with Blake and Devoe shooting from range, that would have been a GREAT team. We do have a good thing going with Dre, Rodney, and Trevor who all are stars or have the potential to be, and some really nice role players in Austin, Elliot, Julian, and Joe (who I think has the potential to be a star if he can add a reliable 3-point shot to his game).
 

Indiana has a ton of instate talent so they really only needed 2 classes to get back in the mix. I'm more concerned that Tubby hasn't recruited anyone from another Midwestern state in a long time. We have Ellenson this year from WI and thats it that I can remember. We haven't gotten in the mix in Ill, IN or OH 3 states that produce a ton of talent
 

oleboy41 said:
I'm more concerned that Tubby hasn't recruited anyone from another Midwestern state in a long time.
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Ingram - JuCo in KS
Eliason - NE
Osenieks - Prep in IL
Allen - MO (don't know if Tubby gets some/any credit for this since he was a football recruit also)
Carter - JuCo in MO
Bostick - JuCo in IL
Iverson - SD
 

victor04 said:
Dekker, who cares what he's rated at he's a freshman. He could be solid, but he won't be a game changer.
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Coach Cal disagrees.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Ingram - JuCo in KS
Eliason - NE
Osenieks - Prep in IL
Allen - MO (don't know if Tubby gets some/any credit for this since he was a football recruit also)
Carter - JuCo in MO
Bostick - JuCo in IL
Iverson - SD
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Oto is Latvian and just happened to go to an Il prep school, not counting him
not counting JUCO's either although Bostick was from Racine WI so I'll give that.
Iverson is from a state that produces 1 B10 player every 3 years. Don't care about that, same with EE.
Forgot about Allen out of STL.

So in his years here Tubby has only gotten 1 guy from another midwestern hotbed. No Chicago kids, Indiana or OH kids and one STL kid.
 

Is a Chicago kid really more likely to come to Minnesota than the Tennesse (Hollins) or Georgia (Sampson) kid? If you're going to slam Tubby about his inability to recruit the region, you should probably realize that Minnesota's regional recruiting base probably ends in Rice Lake, Wisconsin, not Chicago or Indianapolis. Everybody else is a national recruit that doesn't place as much value on staying home.
 

Interesting discussion-my memory tells me that the Gophers traditionally haven't had many players from the other midwest states, although Clem/Dutch mined Michigan pretty well for awhile. From looking at basketball reference, Monson's only midwest prep recruit was Aaron Robinson.

So, rough memory of outstate recruits from Clem and Dutch's time (with some help from Gopher Sports achived rosters and a couple other sites). . .
Michigan produced Voshon Lenard, Willie Burton, Trent Tucker, Tommy Davis, John Shasky, Kevin Smith
Ohio brought Melvin Newbern, David Grim
Indiana-Courtney James, Nate Tubbs, Ryan Wolf
Illinois-Walter Bond, Townsend Orr, Jim Shikenjanski


Getting beyond the Midwest, you have some of the following:
Lawrence Westbrook (AZ); Damien Johnson, Nick Sinville (LA); Quincy Lewis (AR); Charles Thomas (KY); Rico Tucker, Justin Cobbs, Kerry Woolridge, Antoine Broxsie, Kevin Nathaniel, Miles Tarver (CA); Kevin Payton, Stan Gaines (NJ); Aliou Kane, Ariel McDonald, Richard Coffey (NC); Kevin Burleson, Ryan Wildenborg (WA); Eric Harris (NY); Daryl Mitchell, Cookie Holmes, Zebedee Howell (FL); Mark Hall (MA); Randy Carter (TN); Jayson Walton (TX)

(Questions on players such as Ray Gaffney, Kelvin Smith, George Williams, Mitch Lee, Marc Wilson and others that don't immediately come to mind exist from the mid '80s)

So basically, the Gophers haven't really recruited the Midwest states much through the years, particularly after Dutch moved on and the Michigan connection became a bit more limited with Clem and dried up completely since then. It makes sense-tough to get an Indiana kid out of a state with three high majors and similar challenges exist in Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio, especially when things are going good in those states.

I think it's reasonable to expect Tubby to recruit better than Monson regionally, but when you look at his national recruiting (Hollins duo from Memphis, Joseph from Toronto, RSIII from Georgia, Cobbs & Mav from Cali, Armelin from Louisiana, Buggs from ???) it's pretty consistent with what Gopher coaches have been doing for a long time-relying upon Minnesota for the core of their roster and supplementing beyond the Big Ten region for players, standouts and marginal, who are interested in playing for a Big Ten team.
 

scher215 said:
Coach Cal disagrees.
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I was specifically talking about the the role of freshman under Bo, not Cali. I think we all know Cali is the best at getting top talent to excel and be the main pieces of a team.

Like I said before, dekker will most likely be solid, but 10 to 12 pts a game isn't a game changer, it's what I've been saying, it's solid.
 

oleboy41 said:
Indiana has a ton of instate talent so they really only needed 2 classes to get back in the mix. I'm more concerned that Tubby hasn't recruited anyone from another Midwestern state in a long time. We have Ellenson this year from WI and thats it that I can remember. We haven't gotten in the mix in Ill, IN or OH 3 states that produce a ton of talent
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1. Why? Once they're out of the MN, western WI, IA, SD, ND region, they're really not in our backyard. What's the difference if you get a player from Chicago or Memphis?
2. He has recruited midwestern guys, just hasn't landed a lot of them.
 

You forgot Cerina the TCU PF who is eligible to play at NU and whom Carmody called the most explosive athlete on the team.
 

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