Jamal Mashburn Jr: I don't plan on staying and I'm just looking for the right situation for me.

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CentralGopher said:
I try not to read too much into what kids say. Just because he says he doesn't plan on staying doesn't mean he won't. Personally I think it's more likely he doesn't but the door isn't shut.
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I imagine a lot of jilted lovers say the same thing. "There's still a chance." They are seldom correct.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
it forced us to use one of our better players over the last decade out of position (and at a position that IMO hurt his draft stock).
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If you are talking about Coffey, I would argue it helped his draft stock. He got Big Ten reps at handling the ball every trip up the floor. He had the ball in his hands, every trip up the floor. He was asked to penetrate and operated in iso as a rule. He learned how to pass better and shot more threes (likely, since he was always in control of the ball).

If nothing else, even if it didn't help his draft stock, it prepared him for the NBA, better than standing over on the side while someone else did all these things.

I am curious if Built agrees with me.
 


GopherJake said:
If you are talking about Coffey, I would argue it helped his draft stock. He got Big Ten reps at handling the ball every trip up the floor. He had the ball in his hands, every trip up the floor. He was asked to penetrate and operated in iso as a rule. He learned how to pass better and shot more threes (likely, since he was always in control of the ball).

If nothing else, even if it didn't help his draft stock, it prepared him for the NBA, better than standing over on the side while someone else did all these things.

I am curious if Built agrees with me.
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One of the most highly coveted skills in the NBA is being an athletic 3 &D wing. These are low usage, high efficiency guys that bring value despite not dominating the ball. The fact that almost all of Amir's tape is of him playing iso ball does not help him, it hurts him. Teams did not have tape of Amir doing the thing that he likely does best (and that they will surely be asking him to do in the NBA). There is huge concern in the NBA with guys who are good (put up good numbers) in college because they are ball dominant.

The other big issue is that the 3 PT shot for wings is usually a much easier look than a pull up 3 during iso. I think Amir was a decent shooter but his numbers in college looked bad because so many of his threes were off the dribble. He's shooting ~40% from 3 in the NBA in 45 games (limited sample size).

Essentially, Amir was not able to put many minutes on tape of doing the things that he was good at and that just so happen to be highly coveted in the NBA. They are considerably more coveted than someone who can dribble and dominate the ball (you have to be an incredibly good ball dominant player to play in the league).

I just don't buy the argument that playing Amir out of position, especially at a position that is less-valued in the NBA helped his stock.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
One of the most highly coveted skills in the NBA is being an athletic 3 &D wing. These are low usage, high efficiency guys that bring value despite not dominating the ball. The fact that almost all of Amir's tape is of him playing iso ball does not help him, it hurts him. Teams did not have tape of Amir doing the thing that he likely does best (and that they will surely be asking him to do in the NBA). There is huge concern in the NBA with guys who are good (put up good numbers) in college because they are ball dominant.

The other big issue is that the 3 PT shot for wings is usually a much easier look than a pull up 3 during iso. I think Amir was a decent shooter but his numbers in college looked bad because so many of his threes were off the dribble. He's shooting ~40% from 3 in the NBA in 45 games (limited sample size).

Essentially, Amir was not able to put many minutes on tape of doing the things that he was good at and that just so happen to be highly coveted in the NBA. They are considerably more coveted than someone who can dribble and dominate the ball (you have to be an incredibly good ball dominant player to play in the league).

I just don't buy the argument that playing Amir out of position, especially at a position that is less-valued in the NBA helped his stock.
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These are fair points. My argument focuses on the forced development of skills that a) he wasn't as blessed with and b) that *every* NBA player, outside of a strict power forward/center can't get away without. Not to mention, who was going to get him the ball in the spots where he could show off the skills he already had? That was a problem.

Built?
 

salzie said:
You can survive with him, but him and carr at same time was brutal
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It's part of firing a coach and going a different direction. 8 times out of 10 you are going to bottom out hard. But if the new guy does it right and can build it right, it is worth it. I wish Mash would have stayed, Carr was always gone.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, it'll get you point guards who can score. I'm not sure it will get you really good point guards. It also put such a premium on having a ball dominant point guard, it forced us to use one of our better players over the last decade out of position (and at a position that IMO hurt his draft stock).

IMO it's a bad system for the team and even the players.
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Carr was pretty good paired with Oturu last year, but we were so weak in other areas. Once Oturu was gone it became the Carr show and we lived or died on that pretty much.
 

bga1 said:
Carr was pretty good paired with Oturu last year, but we were so weak in other areas. Once Oturu was gone it became the Carr show and we lived or died on that pretty much.
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I'm not ripping on Carr. It was how he was asked to play and he was far from our biggest issue, but he has always dribbled too much. It wasn't as bad last year because of Oturu, but I don't think Carr's game is conducive to winning basketball.
 



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