Is the Recruiting Class of 2015 Make or Break for our Program?

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howieramone

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I thought Coach P. and staff did a good job filling holes with the Class of 2014, and I still don't see them being quite done yet. They brought in a number of future starters, but I wouldn't project any of the 6 playing in the NBA. To make a run in the BIG, IMO you need 2 players good enough to get at least a cup of coffee in NBA. Also, it's hard not to look at 2015/16 and see we will be losing Mathieu, Dre, EE, and Not So Huge Mo. Very big recruiting year for us.
 


I wouldn't call any particular year make or break, I do think every class is important and I would say 2015-16 will be a lot like this past season, a lot of inexperience players that will have a 2-3 year run together
 

howieramone said:
I thought Coach P. and staff did a good job filling holes with the Class of 2014, and I still don't see them being quite done yet. They brought in a number of future starters, but I wouldn't project any of the 6 playing in the NBA. To make a run in the BIG, IMO you need 2 players good enough to get at least a cup of coffee in NBA. Also, it's hard not to look at 2015/16 and see we will be losing Mathieu, Dre, EE, and Not So Huge Mo. Very big recruiting year for us.
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You have never seen any of them play a minute in college ball, except maybe Lofton. How do you know none of them will play in the NBA. We can each go on and on naming players who achieved much more than anyone thought they would when recruited, players in the Big Ten and at The U right now. We also can name highly regarded recruits who have done nothing.

Each recruit is good athlete, who none of us really know that much about. The two big kids from overseas, for example, are big, supposedly athletic, and could blow up. They could also do nothing. Highlight tapes are just that - highlights. Let's see how they do once they get on campus.
 





Incindiery post there howieana.... Not sure what your angle is here.... It's a huge year for Pitino for the reasons you mention, but the roster we have today is made up of almost the exact same type of players Pitino recruited, so if he's a better in game coach than his predecessor or a better developer of talent, then he'll get 6 years to prove himself. So, no, his 2nd recruiting class is not make or break.
 

"Make or Break" might be a step too far, but I do think it's a very important recruiting class for Coach Pitino and his staff for several reasons.

1. In 2015 we will be returning exactly ONE (!) recruit who was rated in the Rivals 150 out of high school: Howie's favorite, Carlos Morris. That's an alarming statistic that speaks to a rough end of tenure from Tubby, a coaching change, and too much Spring recruiting. A lot of programs (not just the MSU's and tOSU's) will have 3 or more returning Rivals 150 kids. When Coach Pitino was brought in, he was brought in to improve recruiting (per Norwood) and I think he will.

2. Losing the "Big 3" could be explained away, but going 0-2 this year would be cause for concern. Most gave Coach Pitino a pass for missing out on the Big 3, however painful it was to do so. That said, if a second straight class of kids pass on the Gophers, that becomes more than just an anomaly and arguably starts a trend. Tyus, Reid, and Rashad leaving the state made it easier for Jarvis and Alex to do the same...If Jarvis and Alex both leave that makes it easier for Amir (and whoever else emerges) to look elsewhere in the future.

3. Momentum matters. This kind of goes with one and two, but Coach Pitino can sell being the new, young coach starting his program by winning the NIT this off season. What will he be able to sell to the 2016 class? In the event the Gophers miss the tournament, we'd have a coach entering his third year losing 4 of his top players, and likely projected to miss the tournament a third straight time. I am not saying this will happen or is likely to happen, just that your program only stays fresh for a very short time. At some point (arguably quicker than it should be), kids want to see that you have won. That's part of the reason why I was so surprised by our recruiting strategy this Spring. One significant addition, and I could see this team in top 4 of the Big Ten next year given the turnover at other schools.

So, yeah, I think this is a huge recruiting year for Coach Pitino and his staff. For 2015, we must find a guard/wing who profiles as a big time scorer and a point guard who is talented enough to come in and start immediately. The other two scholarships could go a number of different ways depending on how the newcomers perform in 2014-2015, but we certainly will need a scorer and a point guard.
 



EG#9 said:
"Make or Break" might be a step too far, but I do think it's a very important recruiting class for Coach Pitino and his staff for several reasons.

1. In 2015 we will be returning exactly ONE (!) recruit who was rated in the Rivals 150 out of high school: Howie's favorite, Carlos Morris. That's an alarming statistic that speaks to a rough end of tenure from Tubby, a coaching change, and too much Spring recruiting. A lot of programs (not just the MSU's and tOSU's) will have 3 or more returning Rivals 150 kids. When Coach Pitino was brought in, he was brought in to improve recruiting (per Norwood) and I think he will.

2. Losing the "Big 3" could be explained away, but going 0-2 this year would be cause for concern. Most gave Coach Pitino a pass for missing out on the Big 3, however painful it was to do so. That said, if a second straight class of kids pass on the Gophers, that becomes more than just an anomaly and arguably starts a trend. Tyus, Reid, and Rashad leaving the state made it easier for Jarvis and Alex to do the same...If Jarvis and Alex both leave that makes it easier for Amir (and whoever else emerges) to look elsewhere in the future.

3. Momentum matters. This kind of goes with one and two, but Coach Pitino can sell being the new, young coach starting his program by winning the NIT this off season. What will he be able to sell to the 2016 class? In the event the Gophers miss the tournament, we'd have a coach entering his third year losing 4 of his top players, and likely projected to miss the tournament a third straight time. I am not saying this will happen or is likely to happen, just that your program only stays fresh for a very short time. At some point (arguably quicker than it should be), kids want to see that you have won. That's part of the reason why I was so surprised by our recruiting strategy this Spring. One significant addition, and I could see this team in top 4 of the Big Ten next year given the turnover at other schools.

So, yeah, I think this is a huge recruiting year for Coach Pitino and his staff. For 2015, we must find a guard/wing who profiles as a big time scorer and a point guard who is talented enough to come in and start immediately. The other two scholarships could go a number of different ways depending on how the newcomers perform in 2014-2015, but we certainly will need a scorer and a point guard.
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Bingo!
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
You have never seen any of them play a minute in college ball, except maybe Lofton. How do you know none of them will play in the NBA. We can each go on and on naming players who achieved much more than anyone thought they would when recruited, players in the Big Ten and at The U right now. We also can name highly regarded recruits who have done nothing.

Each recruit is good athlete, who none of us really know that much about. The two big kids from overseas, for example, are big, supposedly athletic, and could blow up. They could also do nothing. Highlight tapes are just that - highlights. Let's see how they do once they get on campus.
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The vast majority of Gophers fans have never seen, nor will they see these players until they hit the court wearing the maroon and gold. This does not mean we can't talk about or offer our opinions on recruits. Film is often the best possible information. While far from perfect, the best possible information is far better than what was available to us in the not so distant past. I can certainly understand if you are uncomfortable watching film, but it's archaic to criticize those who do, in search of the best possible information.
 

I think it's absurd to suggest that the success of the 2015 recruiting class will have any impact on whether or not this team makes the tournament the year after 4 of our best players leave.... When Was the last freshman we brought in so impactful that they carried the team to an NCAA tournament.

I'm quite comfortable with the fact that we will have a down year the year after next. It's improtant that we show some progress this year and hopefully make the tournament. But if Pitino doesn't, and he doesn't the next year either, it will have very little to do with what he did on the recruiting trail in 2015.

Fact is he inherited a couple terrible recruiting classes, put together a mis mash in his first couple months on the job that will have to be the leaders in 2015. Pitino will have to show progress on the recruiting front to keep the naysayers that demand a win now or leave mindset. But the status of the program will have little to do with the W-L count in the 2016 season.

Pitino will get a chance to cycle all of Tubbys recruits out of the system. And you all should give him that time before suggesting make or break situations during his 1st full recruiting cycle.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
I think it's absurd to suggest that the success of the 2015 recruiting class will have any impact on whether or not this team makes the tournament the year after 4 of our best players leave.... When Was the last freshman we brought in so impactful that they carried the team to an NCAA tournament.

I'm quite comfortable with the fact that we will have a down year the year after next. It's improtant that we show some progress this year and hopefully make the tournament. But if Pitino doesn't, and he doesn't the next year either, it will have very little to do with what he did on the recruiting trail in 2015.

Fact is he inherited a couple terrible recruiting classes, put together a mis mash in his first couple months on the job that will have to be the leaders in 2015. Pitino will have to show progress on the recruiting front to keep the likes of howie and other naysayers that demand a win now or leave mindset. But the status of the program will have little to do with the W-L count in the 2016 season.

Pitino will get a chance to cycle all of Tubbys recruits out of the system. And you all should give him that time before suggesting make or break situations during his 1st full recruiting cycle.
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Boo-Boo, you're ready to punt on Coach P.'s third season? Also, we are now officially in Coach P.'s 2nd full recruiting cycle.
 



howieramone said:
Boo-Boo, you're ready to punt on Coach P.'s third season? Also, we are now officially in Coach P.'s 2nd full recruiting cycle.
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Huh? 2nd full recruiting cycle...you know nothing about recruiting D1 BB. Most of the kids signing this year started making relationships with coaches when they were in 8th and 9th grade.

I am not giving Rico a pass on this recruiting cycle nor did I give him a pass on last years (which I graded very high considering the late start) but the idea that since he has been on the job a year now that he should be grabbing top 100 talent is absurd. He is competing against coaches that have been winning at a high level for 20 plus years and have programs with state of the art facilities and a national fan & tv base.

I am confident Rico will get his type of players and compete for the top 100 midwestern players this year and next. If we can keep the staff together and win some NCAA games in the next two years, and get our practice facility started, he may start to make more than lip service in roads with nationally recruited top 100 players outside midwest, specifically the Northeast where he and Kimani have some connections.

Just my opinion.
 


Gopherguy0723 said:
You're not realistic.
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But still in high school kid, I think Coach P. and staff will do it. I believe their backs are firmly against the wall and they will produce a Top 25-35 Class. I had fairly high hopes last year until our 3rd signing, and our 4th signing much later let me know they were scrambling. I was very happy finishing up with Konate because I never thought he was a realistic possibility, and IMO Lofton is the best of the group.
 

howieramone said:
But still in high school kid, I think Coach P. and staff will do it. I believe their backs are firmly against the wall and they will produce a Top 25-35 Class. I had fairly high hopes last year until our 3rd signing, and our 4th signing much later let me know they were scrambling. I was very happy finishing up with Konate because I never thought he was a realistic possibility, and IMO Lofton is the best of the group.
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You're in high school? That explains a lot
 



What does it look like for the basetball program to be broken? Is winning 1 NCAA tourney game in 10+ years encouraging, ok, or broken? Will they fire Pitino and shut it down if they don't bring in a guy you think ends up in the NBA?
 

It's not make or break, but why would anyone concede Pitino's third season isn't going to be a good one? The first one was encouraging (save for a couple ugly losses vs. B1G bottom-feeders & the stinker vs. the Badgers in Indy), and the Gophers haven't even started Season 2. Why already give Pitino a pass for Season 3 a year and a half before it's even started?
 


Wait a minute, I thought last year's class was the make or break class...

Now, it's this year's class?

Can someone tell me which class it really is? So confusing...
 

SelectionSunday said:
It's not make or break, but why would anyone concede Pitino's third season isn't going to be a good one? The first one was encouraging (save for a couple ugly losses vs. B1G bottom-feeders & the stinker vs. the Badgers in Indy), and the Gophers haven't even started Season 2. Why already give Pitino a pass for Season 3 a year and a half before it's even started?
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Who said that by the way? If you are referencing Howieanna saying I did that was not what I was trying to articulate. Re-reading my comment I can see why one might think that's what I felt, but I assure you I'm not giving up/giving him "a pass". I feel like Howie's original post inferred that and I'm saying I'd be ok with a step back given what we are losing.

I think it's only fair that if we expect better things this year because we are returning 4 starters it's only fair to expect a step back the year after when we lose 4 starters. You can argue all the other outliers until the cows come home, but the fact remains we will be starting 4 completely different people at the beginning of the 2016 season compared to the 2015 and that usually isn't a great thing to do.
 


Winasota Gopher said:
Who said that by the way? If you are referencing Howieanna saying I did that was not what I was trying to articulate. Re-reading my comment I can see why one might think that's what I felt, but I assure you I'm not giving up/giving him "a pass". I feel like Howie's original post inferred that and I'm saying I'd be ok with a step back given what we are losing.

I think it's only fair that if we expect better things this year because we are returning 4 starters it's only fair to expect a step back the year after when we lose 4 starters. You can argue all the other outliers until the cows come home, but the fact remains we will be starting 4 completely different people at the beginning of the 2016 season compared to the 2015 and that usually isn't a great thing to do.
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three, will have squirrel and King/Martin back
 



MRJ said:
Wait a minute, I thought last year's class was the make or break class...

Now, it's this year's class?

Can someone tell me which class it really is? So confusing...
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If you are looking for some logic or rationality, don't attempt to find it here. Most of us have no idea what was, is, or will happen in CBB. Largely we're just trying to appear intelligent but upon analysis, we fail miserably. Be especially leery of the pundits on this forum. They may not be aware that tomorrow will come after today and next season after the current season.
 

MN1nAZ said:
If you are looking for some logic or rationality, don't attempt to find it here. Most of us have no idea what was, is, or will happen in CBB. Largely we're just trying to appear intelligent but upon analysis, we fail miserably. Be especially leery of the pundits on this forum. They may not be aware that tomorrow will come after today and next season after the current season.
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Have to admit, all the ridiculous hyperbole is kinda fun though huh?
 

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