Is it Déjà Vu all over again?

Donate To GopherHole
K

Killjoy

Active member
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
5,062
Reaction score
0
Points
36
“Per MV from the Sports Huddle Jerry Kill is expecting up to 10 defections between now and the start of the season. He says that those players will leave for one reason or another.”

It has happened again! Coach Kill has spoken and people are running around in panic instead of asking the right questions. Some of these could be:
  • Is this Coach Kill again under promising and over delivering?
  • Is this Coach Kill letting his players know that they better be ready both physically and mentally?
  • Based on his experience elsewhere, is this or is this not a very likely scenario?
  • Or could this be something else?

Personally I would like to hear about what has happened at prior camps after Kill became the head coach. This would be the best way to get a better handle on this. Does anybody know?

One of the more interesting questions is if these camps are as demanding as they are made out to be, what is the impact on recruiting? It sounds a lot like basic training where they tear you down and then they build you back up again. If it is done right, you end of with a football team.
 

Up to 10 sounds crazy, especially since we're already halfway through summer, but maybe I just don't remember how many defections we had post-Mason.
 

Yawn, this is normal. There are 100+ kids in the football program.
 

You have to wonder how many of the kids who leave were highly rated high school players from outside the upper midwest, sold a line about "Gopher nation heading to Pasadena soon!" by Brewster and now question what they're still doing in Minneapolis with this crazy man named Kill.

Those are the players who are not loyal to the state of Minnesota or the University of Minnesota and those who don't have a desire to be Gopher football players.


The team is probably better off without them. Let them transfer back home, wherever they came from and good luck to them elsewhere.


I want players who will be loyal to Kill, the university and proud to represent this state, no matter what the situation. They'll be in mid-air asking "how much higher?" when Kill says "jump!" and are honored to get the chance to play for a Big Ten school.
 

Defections

I would guess that most of those who leave the program will do so after a frank talk with Kill about their roles and PT with the Gophers this fall.
 


He's talking about fringe walk-on players and others more than potential starters or even STP's. A lot of teams lose half a dozen players of all types between now and the first game of the year. Players that want to be here will still be here. Players that don't--won't. Let's dial her back a little.
 

10 seems high, but there likely will be attrition during fall camp. Under Brewster, there were a number of guys who transferred during his first fall camp (several from Minnesota, Bison). I think all of those players ended up transferring to a lower level of competition. Hopefully, it's the same type of kids who transfer under Kill (ie kids who end up at St Thomas, Northern Iowa, etc).
 

(1) This amount of guys leaving the program wouldn't really be that strange. I believe Maryland (I think MV talks about this) has had a ton of attrition. So I wouldn't be too worried about trying to attribute too much of it specifically with Coach Kill or the U.
(2) I think Kill is pretty straightforward, when he said that he could see up to 10 guys, I think he really meant up to 10 guys. It probably won't be that much, but I guessed a few weeks ago that we'd have at least 20 guys in this upcoming class, and that guess will probably be a bit conservative.
(3) My guess is that the attrition will be from two groups:
- The regular attrition that comes from college football and dealing with academics.
- Younger guys who weren't recruited by Kill who might see the writing on the wall about PT/not being an ideal fit etc.
(4) I don't think the locale of these guys makes much of a difference. We've had attrition issues with local kids and we've had kids from all over bleeding maroon and gold. I think it's sort of a slap in the face to a leader like Duane Bennett when you make it sound like the guys have to be from the Upper Midwest to be loyal to the U.


This doesn't mean the sky is falling but it is a sort of important chain of events that usually happens when you switch coaching staffs. It will probably end up explaining some of our recruiting questions (maybe a QB is leaving, etc.) and it should be interesting.
 

"Players" or "Scholarship Players" is an important distinction in this case.

And I have no idea of what the make-up of the "up to 10" will be.
 



Misunderstanding of potential new scholarship slots

It is very possible that we won’t have as many additional scholarship slots opening up from defections as people are projecting. As MV said today, it is what we don’t know that should be keeping us awake at night. One of those things we don’t know is what percentage of any defections will be scholarship players and what percentage won’t.
 

He's being a coach. A real coach. Relax.
 

Could it be that 10 or so current roster players are not doing their part or not taking part with the summer conditioning and captains practices? If so, this would be a huge no-no for Coach Kill.
 

No Problem

mggoph said:
He's being a coach. A real coach. Relax.
Click to expand...

We don't even know if whatever happens is going to be positive or negative. I can think of several scenarios where the end results would be positive. For example, it could open up some scholarship slots in a year where we need some. This could also help rectify the imbalance we have in some of the recruiting classes. Also this could help establish a new culture that may pay big dividends down the road.

Yes, we should relax now that we have a real coach. Besides, we won't have the answer that several people want now probably until at least a few years.
 



Unregistered User said:
"Players" or "Scholarship Players" is an important distinction in this case.

And I have no idea of what the make-up of the "up to 10" will be.
Click to expand...


I'd guess that it will probably be scholarship players that he is talking about (for the most part). They make up the largest part of a football team. They are also the most likely players to leave and try to get a scholarship at another school. Most of our walk ons chose to walk on at the U and the coaching change wouldn't have the same impact (they were likely heading here regardless of the coach).

I don't really want to over speculate but I think it is important to look at positions that seem to be getting over recruited now, players recruited by Brew who might not fit what Kill is doing (unathletic OL, buried on the depth chart, possibly DL who don't have that certain skill set)....
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'd guess that it will probably be scholarship players that he is talking about (for the most part). They make up the largest part of a football team. They are also the most likely players to leave and try to get a scholarship at another school. Most of our walk ons chose to walk on at the U and the coaching change wouldn't have the same impact (they were likely heading here regardless of the coach).

I don't really want to over speculate but I think it is important to look at positions that seem to be getting over recruited now, players recruited by Brew who might not fit what Kill is doing (unathletic OL, buried on the depth chart, possibly DL who don't have that certain skill set)....
Click to expand...

Great points. It would be prudent to just see how it plays out, but in this day and age, I think that is asking too much.
 

Probably the ones that don't like the fact that they can't go to the bars the nights before practice....
 

This is normal. I went to a d2 school and we went through a coaching change my sophomore year and had 29 players in spring ball after winter workouts with the new coach. I think we went 4-7 or 5-6 that first year. New coaches come in and like to lay down the law and try to run out the kids that aren't going to buy in their way of doing things. I seem to remember a lot of defections when Brewster started, but maybe I'm thinking of a different situation.
 

Funny how the rainbow and unicorn crowd among us assume the next 10 will all be towel boys. The first 5 weren't exactly chopped liver, even though once the names are released, some would like to convince us they were in the same manner they convinced themselves. Of course, to the rainbow and unicorn crowd, no matter who it ens up being, they will be insignificant once their names are released.

Off to start own little rainbow and unicorn thread since anyone who spouts a thinking opinion sans blinders or delivers real outside news that is not positive is a "troll."
 

Kill Warrior said:
Funny how the rainbow and unicorn crowd among us assume the next 10 will all be towel boys. The first 5 weren't exactly chopped liver, even though once the names are released, some would like to convince us they were in the same manner they convinced themselves. Of course, to the rainbow and unicorn crowd, no matter who it ens up being, they will be insignificant once their names are released.

Off to start own little rainbow and unicorn thread since anyone who spouts a thinking opinion sans blinders or delivers real outside news that is not positive is a "troll."
Click to expand...

In my experience, the ones that walk away during fall camp are usually the lesser talented players. Why? Because for the most part these players aren't walking away from scholorships and free school. Every year about 10-12 guys walked on the field for that first of the fall 3-a-days, and every year by friday at least 6 were gone. The problem was many of these guys thought they were just "overlooked" by every coach in America and were better football players than half the guys on scholarship. Well, once they hit the field they got freakin' beat down and quit.

Now, you may claim to not be a troll but you're kind of a D-bag! Stop with the "Everyone thinks I am a troll because I deliver real outside news" bull$hit. You don't deliver anything but opinion and opinions are allowed to be disagreed with.
 

Kill Warrior said:
Funny how the rainbow and unicorn crowd among us assume the next 10 will all be towel boys. The first 5 weren't exactly chopped liver, even though once the names are released, some would like to convince us they were in the same manner they convinced themselves. Of course, to the rainbow and unicorn crowd, no matter who it ens up being, they will be insignificant once their names are released.

Off to start own little rainbow and unicorn thread since anyone who spouts a thinking opinion sans blinders or delivers real outside news that is not positive is a "troll."
Click to expand...


I don't think most of us consider the possible 10 players to be "towel boys".

I broke it down into a few groups that these 10 players could come out of.....

The guys who leave because of possible issues with grades could be just about any player on the roster. I don't know the grades of any of these kids, so this could literally be ANY kid on the roster.

Now, it is also important to use common sense. If a kid is going to leave because he doesn't like the new coach, it is far more likely that player would be younger rather than older. This is because they have time to sit out a season and go to another school (not many JRs or SRs are going to want to sit out a season, I know Eskridge is doing it, but still).

I also said to look at some of the recruiting questions....well this implies that I said the guys could be guys on the depth chart. I was implying that we'd need to overrecruit a position right now because someone currently on the depth chart might unexpectidly leave. I don't want to question anyone in particular, but it might make more sense if a QB isn't expected back (Shortell would play this season as a backup and Foreman would RS, etc...). That is completely a guess.

Lastly, guys who aren't seeing PT (in every program, everywhere) are far more likely to transfer than someone seeing PT.

So out of the groups....
-grades (could be a kid anywhere on the depth chart)
-overrecruited positions (could be a kid anywhere on the depth chart)
- guys who don't "fit" and lack of PT (likely younger guys, but I don't really want to lose a ton of players in general)
 

Kill Warrior said:
Funny how the rainbow and unicorn crowd among us assume the next 10 will all be towel boys. The first 5 weren't exactly chopped liver, even though once the names are released, some would like to convince us they were in the same manner they convinced themselves. Of course, to the rainbow and unicorn crowd, no matter who it ens up being, they will be insignificant once their names are released.

Off to start own little rainbow and unicorn thread since anyone who spouts a thinking opinion sans blinders or delivers real outside news that is not positive is a "troll."
Click to expand...

None of the players will be towel boys. You see, players are not towel boys. They do have people to manage towels and other equipment, but they don't do double duty as players. Just glad I could clear up that confusion for you. And it is more likely that players they might lose at this point are those who have less of a chance of actually contributing on the field than it is to that they will lose players who will see significant playing time. Benchwarmers are less motivated to stay than those that are going to get to play. Perhaps by "rainbows and unicorns" you meant to say "rational"?
 

Wow. What a thread. Does anyone get that Kill was talking in general generalities, and the number "10" was completely arbitary (made up)? He was telling a "tale" of what happens in a college football program over the summer, especially with a coaching change, akin to: "Yeah, we're going to the lake this weekend and hope to get 10 nice walleyes". We're reading WAY to much into this. There's no specific number of players, there's no "watch list", there's no specific player Kill is concerned with.

Listen to the broadcast yourself. Breathe.

As for Killjoy's quote “Per MV from the Sports Huddle Jerry Kill is expecting up to 10 defections between now and the start of the season. He says that those players will leave for one reason or another,” it's "Jerry has hinted that there could be an additional 9-10 departures by the end of two-a-days, though with Kill’s history of to-a-fault not sugarcoating the downside, most stakeholders are left wondering how bad the situation actually is; considering Jerry spent the spring lamenting the academic woes of the team he inherited, the startling lack of academic non-qualifiers gives some evidence that Kill is engaging in the not-so-subtle art of expectation management."

That's the exact quote. A little different than Killjoy's troll-like opening statement.
 


Exactly as Highwayman said, 10 isn't a hard number, but in Kill's experience there are typically a handful of guys who leave after fall camp. Depth chart, PT, position changes, fitting into the scheme, etc.
Kill is loading up on position flexible recruits right now, with the option to move guys around if needed.
Everything will even out, hopefully the players currently on the team can find a spot and contribute, those that can't or won't will leave. We're going to be thin at alot of spots all year regardless of defections anyway.
 

Forget about the coaching change. This is normal at ANY program.

Kids leave for a number of reasons, many of which have already been pointed out. Most of these guys, where they came from, they were "IT", the big man on campus. When they come in and not only see that they aren't that "elite" but they may also never see the field, it's a major eye-opener. Most egos can't handle that kind of reality.

If a program brings in 35-40 kids in a given class (scholarship and walk-on), 7-9 of them will be lucky to be with the team as seniors.

The real story would be if there were NOT any losses to attrition.
 

I know Eskridge is proof to the contrary, but they most likely will not be seniors. I think they are very likely to be scholarship players that will not fit this team's philosophy, and still have hope of PT, somewhere if not here. There are four kids in terrible physical condition, at least three of them have real talent, and I would guess they have will been told they will never play without a big change in their physical fitness, so we'll see how they do over the summer.
 

It was not my attention

highwayman said:
Wow. What a thread. Does anyone get that Kill was talking in general generalities, and the number "10" was completely arbitary (made up)? He was telling a "tale" of what happens in a college football program over the summer, especially with a coaching change, akin to: "Yeah, we're going to the lake this weekend and hope to get 10 nice walleyes". We're reading WAY to much into this. There's no specific number of players, there's no "watch list", there's no specific player Kill is concerned with.

Listen to the broadcast yourself. Breathe.

As for Killjoy's quote “Per MV from the Sports Huddle Jerry Kill is expecting up to 10 defections between now and the start of the season. He says that those players will leave for one reason or another,” it's "Jerry has hinted that there could be an additional 9-10 departures by the end of two-a-days, though with Kill’s history of to-a-fault not sugarcoating the downside, most stakeholders are left wondering how bad the situation actually is; considering Jerry spent the spring lamenting the academic woes of the team he inherited, the startling lack of academic non-qualifiers gives some evidence that Kill is engaging in the not-so-subtle art of expectation management."

That's the exact quote. A little different than Killjoy's troll-like opening statement.
Click to expand...

It was not my intent to begin with a troll like statement but to point out that what Kill was doing is what he always does, i.e. manage the situation as a teaching moment to change the culture here. Unfortunately, I finding out that it is near impossible for people to stay on topic here. MV said it best yesterday with his July 5th comments about what we don't know (see link below).

http://www.fringebowlteamblog.com/
 

It is as Highwayman says.

Kill is just managing expectations and not blowing smoke up your skirt about losing players. It doesn’t take long for Chicken Little to appear.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom