Is it a wildcat when a QB is in?

[UpAndUnder43]

Wildcat offenses became somewhat trendy when the Dolphins ran all over the Patriots in 2008. We’ve seen receivers and running backs and defensive backs take snaps, run gadget plays, etc….but is it a wildcat when your backup QB comes in? I had this conversation recently and I really don’t think so. Its almost for sure a run but Kramer is a quarterback…so can it be a wildcat?

 

[spermophilus]

What about Northwestern? By definition, it’s the Wildcat in either scenario.

 

[BilldGopher]

Great question. My answer is no. The X-String QB is subbing in for the not-so-mobile No. 1 QB.

Another is did anyone else sink in their chairback or on the bench when Tanner went under center for the goal line score? I think that was the second time under center in his career. The other was against Auburn where the snap was muffed but luckily recovered.

The play was preternaturally channeling about 70-80 years of football history for PJ...just not his style. Glad it worked.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

I say yes. A variation. All things evolve. Least they are getting the other QB out of there now. Remember how Zach would stay in? Also Tanner? Never liked that set up.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Wildcat offenses became somewhat trendy when the Dolphins ran all over the Patriots in 2008. We’ve seen receivers and running backs and defensive backs take snaps, run gadget plays, etc….but is it a wildcat when your backup QB comes in? I had this conversation recently and I really don’t think so. Its almost for sure a run but Kramer is a quarterback…so can it be a wildcat?

Interesting question, wildcat might not be the right name for it but is probably as good as anything when you have a specific set of plays designed for a different QB.

 

[IceBoxGopher]

I'd say it looks more like a wildcat because we send in a different player to run the play, rather than Morgan. But in both cases, Kramer and Green, they've still been lining up as a quarterback, it's just that the play is designed to let them run in most cases.

I think true wildcat is having a running back take the direct snap, otherwise it's just a quarterback running play.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I really never thought it was even a question, yeah, it's a wildcat.

The play is almost identical, the read is almost identical, the blocking scheme is identical, it just seems like a shallow difference. Is anything really different with Kramer than Green? Does it make a difference that Green was moved to WR? Ronnie Brown threw ball more often than Green or Kramer (so far) out of that formation.

I think if you are running that play or variations of that play, it's a wildcat (or essentially the same thing) regardless of if it's a WR, RB, QB, or DE taking the direct snap.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

What about Northwestern? By definition, it’s the Wildcat in either scenario.

 

[Dakota2]

I really never thought it was even a question, yeah, it's a wildcat.

The play is almost identical, the read is almost identical, the blocking scheme is identical, it just seems like a shallow difference. Is anything really different with Kramer than Green? Does it make a difference that Green was moved to WR? Ronnie Brown threw ball more often than Green or Kramer (so far) out of that formation.

I think if you are running that play or variations of that play, it's a wildcat (or essentially the same thing) regardless of if it's a WR, RB, QB, or DE taking the direct snap.

It's a wildcat because you have an extra blocker when the QB runs. When he hands to RB or throws that is meant to fool D because they are playing for QB run.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

It's a wildcat because you have an extra blocker when the QB runs. When he hands to RB or throws that is meant to fool D because they are playing for QB run.

Yeah, they almost always have the motion come across the formation (from the opposite side of the RB). The line almost always crashes in the opposite direction as the motion leaving the player on the end unblocked. In some systems, the motioning player is fast and the motion is a jet sweep action (the players speed is intended to keep the unblocked end from crashing down). In other systems, the motioning player almost like trap blocks (this is what we usually do with BSF). The Wildcat QB is snapped the ball and there are essentially three plays - counter (hesitation with misdirection); power (RB leads, usually no fake), and read/option type of play.

Maybe it's not accurate to talk about the play as a wholly different system or anything like that. It's not much different than our play with Ruschmeyer at FB. I'm sure that formation has about 3-4 total plays.

 

[noamfromm]

I really never thought it was even a question, yeah, it's a wildcat.

The play is almost identical, the read is almost identical, the blocking scheme is identical, it just seems like a shallow difference. Is anything really different with Kramer than Green? Does it make a difference that Green was moved to WR? Ronnie Brown threw ball more often than Green or Kramer (so far) out of that formation.

I think if you are running that play or variations of that play, it's a wildcat (or essentially the same thing) regardless of if it's a WR, RB, QB, or DE taking the direct snap.

Wasn't the wildcat with Ronnie Brown just him in the backfield? I hadn't thought about it before but isn't what we've done with Seth and Cole having a mobile quarterback provide a running threat?

 

[Gophergrandpa]

Not technically the “wildcat.” It is an alternative, used in many of the same game situations as the wildcat, that substitutes in a much more mobile QB who poses a true short yardage running threat, but who also poses a realistic passing threat. Gives the defense one more thing to think about than a true wildcat. I’m OK with people calling it our 2021 wildcat; I’m OK with people taking the position it isn’t a true wildcat. It’s just an alternative formation to me.

I wouldn’t be surprised if in some game, Cole walked up under center and took a quick snap on a QB sneak. This formation and personnel grouping actually poses more conflict for the defense than the simple, power based wildcat.

 

[salzie]

Great question. My answer is no. The X-String QB is subbing in for the not-so-mobile No. 1 QB.

Another is did anyone else sink in their chairback or on the bench when Tanner went under center for the goal line score? I think that was the second time under center in his career. The other was against Auburn where the snap was muffed but luckily recovered.

The play was preternaturally channeling about 70-80 years of football history for PJ...just not his style. Glad it worked.

i noticed!

 

[stocker08]

I'd say that in this case....yes. Kramer comes in to run an option. Much like Seth Green. Both were QBs out of HS. Both make an occasional throw just to keep that threat out there...…and because it can catch defenses off guard.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I would say yes. We would undoubtedly call it a wildcat if he were listed as a "running back" on the roster, even if he were used exactly the same way. If he is out there to run a wildcat running play with the pass as a once-in-a-while-surprise to keep the defense off guard, doesn't seem like the name of the formation should depend on whether we call him a "wildcat QB" or a "running back who can surprise them by throwing it out of the wildcat one of out ten times because he played QB in high school."

Wasn't it called the "wildcat" when Michael Vick ran it?

 

[MplsGopher]

It's called the "Wild-Cole"

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Wasn't the wildcat with Ronnie Brown just him in the backfield? I hadn't thought about it before but isn't what we've done with Seth and Cole having a mobile quarterback provide a running threat?

Yeah, kind of, they always brought another RB in motion (usually right in front of him for a read option look). I believe it was Ricky Williams that year.

The Dolphins did a really cool looking roll out pass with Brown off of it that I haven't really seen. Maybe Vick did it with Philly but it didn't register because Vick's a QB.

 

[noamfromm]

Yeah, kind of, they always brought another RB in motion (usually right in front of him for a read option look). I believe it was Ricky Williams that year.

The Dolphins did a really cool looking roll out pass with Brown off of it that I haven't really seen. Maybe Vick did it with Philly but it didn't register because Vick's a QB.

I'd like to see Thomas / Williams come across in a jet sweep motion to either provide a block, take, or just misdirection.

 

[FormerFatOL]

Great question. My answer is no. The X-String QB is subbing in for the not-so-mobile No. 1 QB.

Another is did anyone else sink in their chairback or on the bench when Tanner went under center for the goal line score? I think that was the second time under center in his career. The other was against Auburn where the snap was muffed but luckily recovered.

The play was preternaturally channeling about 70-80 years of football history for PJ...just not his style. Glad it worked.

I was happy to see it but, yeah, nervous. With that massive OL including lining up an OL at fullback, the Gophs need to go under center more often in those very short yardage situations. It's tougher for the defense to get penetration with a quick handoff.

 

[Otis]

I was happy to see it but, yeah, nervous. With that massive OL including lining up an OL at fullback, the Gophs need to go under center more often in those very short yardage situations. It's tougher for the defense to get penetration with a quick handoff.

OMG! You read my mind.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'd like to see Thomas / Williams come across in a jet sweep motion to either provide a block, take, or just misdirection.

Yeah, it'd be a cool wrinkle.

You might even be able to do it with one of our speedsters at WR.

 

[noamfromm]

Yeah, it'd be a cool wrinkle.

You might even be able to do it with one of our speedsters at WR.

I just thought of those two in particular because I have more faith in them giving us blocking ability on a LB than I do with any of our receivers. I am looking forward to Kallerup sneaking into the flat as we've put him in the slot a few times and brought him in motion through the backfield to block.

 

[GoForGold]

I was happy to see it but, yeah, nervous. With that massive OL including lining up an OL at fullback, the Gophs need to go under center more often in those very short yardage situations. It's tougher for the defense to get penetration with a quick handoff.

I'd like to see a tight end line up behind center. He could block ahead of the fullback up the middle. Guaranteed first down on a third and short.

 

[Gophergrandpa]

I would say yes. We would undoubtedly call it a wildcat if he were listed as a "running back" on the roster, even if he were used exactly the same way. If he is out there to run a wildcat running play with the pass as a once-in-a-while-surprise to keep the defense off guard, doesn't seem like the name of the formation should depend on whether we call him a "wildcat QB" or a "running back who can surprise them by throwing it out of the wildcat one of out ten times because he played QB in high school."

Wasn't it called the "wildcat" when Michael Vick ran it?

Apparently, per Fleck, Kramer is practicing with the RB coach as well as the QB coach. Is Kramer now #4 on PJ’s super secret depth chart?