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Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
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Style points aside, I would be willing to bet that Kill and his staff are (albeit secretly) absolutely delighted with where things stand after the NC slate of games. I'm guessing high on the list after 4 games was:

> Healthy! Other than losing BBC, seemingly no significant long term lingering injuries after 4 games. Couldn't ask for much more
> 4-0. And all games won comfortably, easily double-digit margins
> LOTS of guys, especially younger guys and especially on defense, got plenty of playing time. Major bonus
> Both Nelson and Leidner got plenty of PT. No, it's not how they would have preferred it happened, but nonetheless, it's a big plus.

After 4 games, I can't imagine they were looking for more than that. From a Special Teams standpoint, Hawthorne has been somewhat disappointing (although KO's have been REALLY solid), but Mortell has been a pleasant surprise; he's gaining confidence with each game it seems.

I think things have largely gone precisely according to plan for the staff. I doubt they would publicly tell you that, and they have a LONG LONG ways to go, but things are progressing. Position battles are sorting themselves out, as they always do, the cream is rising to the top, as it usually does. The team is shaping up nicely. I can't tell you if they're going to win 1 BT game this year or 5, but I like what I see right now.
 

Careful. This is a Gopher football board. Posting something with that much positivity will undoubtedly result in a lot of backlash.
 

Careful. This is a Gopher football board. Posting something with that much positivity will undoubtedly result in a lot of backlash.

And it all being true is never a defense is it? Wonder when the first "Yes, but.." is posted and wonder if it will be an always cynical Gopher fan or out and out troll?
 

If I'm not mistaken, Kill said we "have a really good football team" in his press conference.

I don't think he meant to say it.

We have some promising young talent. I would not say we are "really good."
 

And it all being true is never a defense is it? Wonder when the first "Yes, but.." is posted and wonder if it will be an always cynical Gopher fan or out and out troll?

It's not unreasonable to recognize going through the B1G will be rough. Does that make me a bad fan?

Go Gophers!
 


It's not unreasonable to recognize going through the B1G will be rough. Does that make me a bad fan?

Go Gophers!

No, of course not. That wasn't though what the O.P. was about nor my post either. Wasn't even mentioned unless you thought "The team is shaping up nicely. I can't tell you if they're going to win 1 BT game this year or 5, but I like what I see right now, somehow meant that they were going to sweep through the season undefeated.

So what does that make you? Guessing just a lousy reader. :rolleyes:
 

I would also add only 10 penalties (easily leading the conference) and just 3 turnovers so far. The team has been very disciplined.
 

And it all being true is never a defense is it? Wonder when the first "Yes, but.." is posted and wonder if it will be an always cynical Gopher fan or out and out troll?

If I'm not mistaken, Kill said we "have a really good football team" in his press conference.

I don't think he meant to say it.

We have some promising young talent. I would not say we are "really good."

15 minutes.
 

I thought about making a similar thread comparing this year's OOC vs. last year, but there are enough new threads I'll just piggy back here.

As we all know, last year's 4-0 start never materialized into a great Big Ten run (though at least enough to make a bowl game). By comparison, I thought it would be worthwhile to see where we're at compared to last year.

Schedule Difficulty
Probably not a huge difference here, but I'd give a slight nod to 2012. Syracuse turned out to be a pretty decent FBS team, though SJSU might not be too far behind where they were, at least at the QB position. UNLV should be improved this year over last, but Western Michigan in 2012 was unquestionably better than NMSU, as it would be hard not to be. New Hampshire is also probably a better FCS program, not that it really matters.

Pass Offense
This is, unfortunately, unquestionably worse. It has also been considerable less important, but still.

2012: 57/98 (58%) 889 yards, 9.1 YPA, 9 TD, 2 INT
2013: 33/62 (53%) 421 yards, 6.8 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INT

Advantage: 2012 team

Again, not much question that we've seen a decline in our passing offense, but that was manifest by the end of 2012, particularly after AJ Barker left. Two of Barker's three 100-yard games were against the non-conf. The other reason for the disparity is Max Shortell, who is a much better pure passer than our current crop and tore apart the weak New Hampshire and Western Michigan D's. The downside was that Max didn't fit the offense and really couldn't run, leading us to.....

Run Offense
Not much question here either, but in the other direction.

2012: 181 attempts, 735 yards, 4.1 YPA, 6 TD
2013: 197 attempts, 1129 yards, 5.7 YPA, 16 TD

Advantage: 2013 team

2012 isn't awful, but good god we've dominated on the run through the first four games. Down the road our inability to pass may catch up with us, but for now when you're running the ball this well it makes pretty much everything else irrelevant.

Pass Defense

2012: 80/146 (55%), 716 yards, 4.9 YPA, 3 TD, 7 INT, 11 sacks
2013: 98/149 (66%), 1080 yards, 7.2 YPA, 7 TD, 4 INT, 6 sacks

Advantage: 2012 team

I always winced during the off-season when people said our secondary wouldn't miss a beat with the guys coming back, because I think people really were sleeping on just how awesome Michael Carter was his senior season. While Eric Murray has been a nice surprise, and Derrick Wells has been limited by injury, I don't think we have a shutdown guy like Carter was for us last year. At least not yet. The difference between these numbers is essentially our ability to shut down Nassib last year vs. our inability to really stop Fales this year (not that it mattered). With the said, I wouldn't overreact too much to these numbers, but schematically we've been playing our corners off the ball more this year, indicating that the staff would agree that Wells/Murray isn't at the level of Carter/Stoudermire just yet.

The other dropoff here is in the sack department. Unfortunately I don't have the stats on QB hurries, which can tell a lot as well. That said, a 5 sack differential is nothing to sneeze at. I thought the d-line was doing an adequate job of getting pressure, but were totally non-existent on that front in the first half this week. That said, the ability to get after the QB dropped off in the B1G season last year, so hopefully we can sustain more success going forward.

All this said, the strength of last year was our ability to stop the pass, something that doesn't seem to be the case this year. It's something of a moot point, however, because we couldn't stop the run for *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# last year....

Run Defense

2012: 140 attempts, 514 yards, 3.7 YPA, 5 TD
2013: 122 attempts, 411 yards, 3.4 YPA, 4 TD

Advantage: 2013

The run defense was actually quite good in 2012 in the non-conf, but obviously it had yet to be truly tested. That said, 2013 was still better, and we can at the least hold out hope that it will maintain itself more in conference play.

Special Teams

2012: 20 yards per kick return, 7.1 yards per punt return, 4/9 field goals, 36 yards per punt, 0 special teams touchdowns, 0 blocked kicks
2013: 23.1 yards per kick return, 14.8 yards per punt return, 5/7 field goals, 42.6 yards per punt, 3 special teams touchdowns, 4 blocked kicks

Advantage: 2013 team
Holy crap our special teams was bad last year. It's night and day. Going through the numbers I was surprised that the 2013 team wasn't more dominant than the 2012 team. Then I got to special teams. You can also see it in the mental mistakes.

Peripheral

2012: Penalties (31-238 yards), Turnover Margin (+5)
2013: Penalties (10-92 yards), Turnover Margin (+3)

Advantage: 2013 team

21 penalties extra penalties through 4 games? Yikes.


So...there's your difference. Talent-wise, we may actually not be lining up and beating teams all that much more than we did last year. Or, perhaps more accurately, while we appear to be much stronger in some areas like running the ball, we're appreciably weaker in others. Where there is a more obvious difference, however, is the mental makeup in this team. They are simply doing the little things much better and not hurting themselves in less obvious ways like the 2012 team did. The coaching staff should be given a lot of credit for this.

Two other things to keep in mind:

1) Past isn't prologue. The first four games weren't dominant for the 2012 team, but they were still very good. The problem was the following 8 games, particularly against the more talented teams. Just because we hit a rough patch in 2012 league play obviously doesn't mean we will now.

2) This is much more a team to Kill's liking. I have no doubt that he would sacrifice some in the pass game on both offense and defense to be able to dominate in the trenches. This team is also much smarter and better on special teams, two key areas to Kill. In this way the numbers reflect in a really obvious way the effect that Kill has had in shaping this team to his liking.
 



I thought about making a similar thread comparing this year's OOC vs. last year, but there are enough new threads I'll just piggy back here.

As we all know, last year's 4-0 start never materialized into a great Big Ten run (though at least enough to make a bowl game). By comparison, I thought it would be worthwhile to see where we're at compared to last year.

Schedule Difficulty
Probably not a huge difference here, but I'd give a slight nod to 2012. Syracuse turned out to be a pretty decent FBS team, though SJSU might not be too far behind where they were, at least at the QB position. UNLV should be improved this year over last, but Western Michigan in 2012 was unquestionably better than NMSU, as it would be hard not to be. New Hampshire is also probably a better FCS program, not that it really matters.

Pass Offense
This is, unfortunately, unquestionably worse. It has also been considerable less important, but still.

2012: 57/98 (58%) 889 yards, 9.1 YPA, 9 TD, 2 INT
2013: 33/62 (53%) 421 yards, 6.8 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INT

Advantage: 2012 team

Again, not much question that we've seen a decline in our passing offense, but that was manifest by the end of 2012, particularly after AJ Barker left. Two of Barker's three 100-yard games were against the non-conf. The other reason for the disparity is Max Shortell, who is a much better pure passer than our current crop and tore apart the weak New Hampshire and Western Michigan D's. The downside was that Max didn't fit the offense and really couldn't run, leading us to.....

Run Offense
Not much question here either, but in the other direction.

2012: 181 attempts, 735 yards, 4.1 YPA, 6 TD
2013: 197 attempts, 1129 yards, 5.7 YPA, 16 TD

Advantage: 2013 team

2012 isn't awful, but good god we've dominated on the run through the first four games. Down the road our inability to pass may catch up with us, but for now when you're running the ball this well it makes pretty much everything else irrelevant.

Pass Defense

2012: 80/146 (55%), 716 yards, 4.9 YPA, 3 TD, 7 INT, 11 sacks
2013: 98/149 (66%), 1080 yards, 7.2 YPA, 7 TD, 4 INT, 6 sacks

Advantage: 2012 team

I always winced during the off-season when people said our secondary wouldn't miss a beat with the guys coming back, because I think people really were sleeping on just how awesome Michael Carter was his senior season. While Eric Murray has been a nice surprise, and Derrick Wells has been limited by injury, I don't think we have a shutdown guy like Carter was for us last year. At least not yet. The difference between these numbers is essentially our ability to shut down Nassib last year vs. our inability to really stop Fales this year (not that it mattered). With the said, I wouldn't overreact too much to these numbers, but schematically we've been playing our corners off the ball more this year, indicating that the staff would agree that Wells/Murray isn't at the level of Carter/Stoudermire just yet.

The other dropoff here is in the sack department. Unfortunately I don't have the stats on QB hurries, which can tell a lot as well. That said, a 5 sack differential is nothing to sneeze at. I thought the d-line was doing an adequate job of getting pressure, but were totally non-existent on that front in the first half this week. That said, the ability to get after the QB dropped off in the B1G season last year, so hopefully we can sustain more success going forward.

All this said, the strength of last year was our ability to stop the pass, something that doesn't seem to be the case this year. It's something of a moot point, however, because we couldn't stop the run for *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# last year....

Run Defense

2012: 140 attempts, 514 yards, 3.7 YPA, 5 TD
2013: 122 attempts, 411 yards, 3.4 YPA, 4 TD

Advantage: 2013

The run defense was actually quite good in 2012 in the non-conf, but obviously it had yet to be truly tested. That said, 2013 was still better, and we can at the least hold out hope that it will maintain itself more in conference play.

Special Teams

2012: 20 yards per kick return, 7.1 yards per punt return, 4/9 field goals, 36 yards per punt, 0 special teams touchdowns, 0 blocked kicks
2013: 23.1 yards per kick return, 14.8 yards per punt return, 5/7 field goals, 42.6 yards per punt, 3 special teams touchdowns, 4 blocked kicks

Advantage: 2013 team
Holy crap our special teams was bad last year. It's night and day. Going through the numbers I was surprised that the 2013 team wasn't more dominant than the 2012 team. Then I got to special teams. You can also see it in the mental mistakes.

Peripheral

2012: Penalties (31-238 yards), Turnover Margin (+5)
2013: Penalties (10-92 yards), Turnover Margin (+3)

Advantage: 2013 team

21 penalties extra penalties through 4 games? Yikes.


So...there's your difference. Talent-wise, we may actually not be lining up and beating teams all that much more than we did last year. Or, perhaps more accurately, while we appear to be much stronger in some areas like running the ball, we're appreciably weaker in others. Where there is a more obvious difference, however, is the mental makeup in this team. They are simply doing the little things much better and not hurting themselves in less obvious ways like the 2012 team did. The coaching staff should be given a lot of credit for this.

Two other things to keep in mind:

1) Past isn't prologue. The first four games weren't dominant for the 2012 team, but they were still very good. The problem was the following 8 games, particularly against the more talented teams. Just because we hit a rough patch in 2012 league play obviously doesn't mean we will now.

2) This is much more a team to Kill's liking. I have no doubt that he would sacrifice some in the pass game on both offense and defense to be able to dominate in the trenches. This team is also much smarter and better on special teams, two key areas to Kill. In this way the numbers reflect in a really obvious way the effect that Kill has had in shaping this team to his liking.


Nice Overview. Could you also add "time of possession" to your analysis? This is a point Coach Kill routinely seems to focus on. "Turnovers" as well. Kill keeps saying if we can control "TOP", win the turnover battle, eliminate penalties and big mistakes, and kick the ball well, we should be in contention in most if not all games. It seems like he's exactly right so far.

The other thing we have going for us this year is Nelson and Leidner. It seems a lot of our troubles last year involved quarterback issues: Gray going down, Shortell going down, a freshman taking over, Gray coming back and trying to work back in, Gray playing receiver. I'm guessing that series of events had an effect on our Big Ten Performance. If Nelson and/or Leidner can stay healthy and finish the season, one would think the continuity will make us a better offensive team.
 

I know that I might regret these words, but I am not (yet) especially worried about our passing attack. Those Wacker years of passing for 350+ yards and losing by 18 points are still fresh in my mind. I think that by being fundamentally sound we are learning to win without being flashy. I know that our passing game needs to improve, but I think that it will. I know that I'm drinking to Kool Aid, but I think that Ogee is on the right track. Kill has a plan, and its taking shape. Go Gophers!
 

I know that I might regret these words, but I am not (yet) especially worried about our passing attack. Those Wacker years of passing for 350+ yards and losing by 18 points are still fresh in my mind. I think that by being fundamentally sound we are learning to win without being flashy. I know that our passing game needs to improve, but I think that it will. I know that I'm drinking to Kool Aid, but I think that Ogee is on the right track. Kill has a plan, and its taking shape. Go Gophers!

I'm not the greatest football mind in the world, but I'm kind of inclined to agree. With the exception of that pass in the flat where he threw it 10 feet over the receiver's head, I thought Leidner's passing looked pretty good when the receivers were open and/or not being interfered with. There were a couple of series where we were third and long and Leidner came up with the throw we needed to keep the drive going.

Speaking of which, did we attempt ANY play action against SJSU? I kept saying to myself, "I bet this is where we try some play-action" and I kept being wrong. I have to imagine we're going to see that against Iowa.
 

Strength & Conditioning

Endurance is definitely better this year than any of Kill's 3 so far.
Bigger, faster, stronger, healthier.
It's an intangible, but an important one.

Advantage: 2013 team
 



I don't know about endurance. We are deeper and have been able to substitute much more. Also we've held major clock advantage due to a dominant running game. We'll find out about our endurance if Iowa can stay on the field whilst running the ball.
 

This current offense is vanilla, but extremely smart and simple. If we had a QB like Fales or Nasib, I believe Kill and Limegrover would take a completely different approach. They demonstrated that a bit last year when Shortell showed glimpses of being able to pass effectively.
 

I know that I might regret these words, but I am not (yet) especially worried about our passing attack. Those Wacker years of passing for 350+ yards and losing by 18 points are still fresh in my mind. I think that by being fundamentally sound we are learning to win without being flashy. I know that our passing game needs to improve, but I think that it will. I know that I'm drinking to Kool Aid, but I think that Ogee is on the right track. Kill has a plan, and its taking shape. Go Gophers!

I agree, dengue. I'm not completely worried about the passing attack just yet. They put together a game plan for SJSU and executed it to near perfection. RS FR making his first career start, against an incredibly dangerous offensive team; the game plan was to grind it out and burn the clock, and build some confidence for the young QB. I'll bet if the staff had their way, they would have thrown the ball LESS than 10 times. That was the game plan.

Will the SJSU game plan work against Iowa or other BT teams? Nope. And it's not supposed to. The SJSU game plan was supposed to work against SJSU and give them the best chance to win THAT game. The game plan for Iowa will be quite a bit different, no doubt.

At the end of the day, as far as the team has come in a few years, they're STILL rolling into these games with either a RS FR or a true SO at QB. They'll game plan accordingly, no doubt it.
 

One of the things that I'm sure they're happy about is the second and third running back are both averaging over 6 yards a carry while the first has been injured. Cobb is 6.4 (341 yards on 53 carries) and Williams is 6.2 (277 yards on 45 carries). Kirkwood only averaged 3.1 yards but that was only early in the UNLV game so not a fair comparison.
 




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