Interesting Stat

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Friend Of Tubby said:
https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/673829.pdf?ATCLID=204893975&SPSID=38661&SPID=3302&DB_OEM_ID=8400 Gophers have the highest scoring average (74.5 ppg) in Big 10 for the entire season.
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Your post header should be- "The Interesting Thing About Stats" and the follow up line is that they can be misleading. The Gophers have average 68 in Big Ten play and 81 in non-conference. teh number get skewed even worse when you start looking at the non-conference games they played against formidable opponents. Against the non- conference stiffs we were averaging close to 90 a game. This team simply bullied weak opponents with pressure - a good thing. But it wasn't a great offensive scheme.

Our offense has looked terrible - face it. However, my hat is off to Tubby for making the necessary adjustments to work with his personnel over the last two games. It has been much better on both ends of the court.
 

In 12 games vs. teams with RPIs of #100 or lower (read: teams generally considered to be of some quality by the Selection Committee), the Gophers have averaged 65.1 ppg.

In 14 games vs. teams with RPIs of #101 or higher, the Gophers have averaged 82.6 ppg.

I think the former and not the latter is more reflective of the Gophers' offensive abilities.
 



station19 said:
Does that mean we are the best at scoring points or scheduling cupcakes.
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Everybody schedules SOME cupcakes in OOC play. Why do you ignore that???

Gopher opponents Butler, Texas A&M, Morgan State, Stephen F Austin, Portland, Miami FL are projected to reach 20+ W in 2010. Not really "cupcakes" are they?
 

bga1 said:
Your post header should be- "The Interesting Thing About Stats" and the follow up line is that they can be misleading. The Gophers have average 68 in Big Ten play and 81 in non-conference. teh number get skewed even worse when you start looking at the non-conference games they played against formidable opponents. Against the non- conference stiffs we were averaging close to 90 a game. This team simply bullied weak opponents with pressure - a good thing. But it wasn't a great offensive scheme.

Our offense has looked terrible - face it. However, my hat is off to Tubby for making the necessary adjustments to work with his personnel over the last two games. It has been much better on both ends of the court.
Click to expand...

Same is true of most Big 10 teams. Scored more (higher PPG) in OOC than in Big 10 play.
 

SelectionSunday said:
In 12 games vs. teams with RPIs of #100 or lower (read: teams generally considered to be of some quality by the Selection Committee), the Gophers have averaged 65.1 ppg.

In 14 games vs. teams with RPIs of #101 or higher, the Gophers have averaged 82.6 ppg.

I think the former and not the latter is more reflective of the Gophers' offensive abilities.
Click to expand...

Do the same analysis on the 10 other BT teams. Then your point might have merit. It doesn't now.
 



Here is my analysis: Taken alone, points per game means little.

VMI leads the nation in scoring by a large margin... but they are 10-16.

They're not a good team in terms of record.. but are they good offensively? No. They simply play at a faster pace than everyone else.
 

Either way, it is a little surprising that the gophers are 2nd in scoring in the BT at 69.2 (Purdue is 1st at 69.5), and 3rd to last in opponent ppg at 68.5.
 


PPG vs. Opponents with RPI #101+
1. Gophers 82.6 ppg
2. Ohio State 79.1 ppg
3. Michigan State 78.3 ppg
4. Purdue 74.8 ppg
5. Wisconsin 73.2 ppg
6. Illinois 71.7 ppg
7. Northwestern 71.1 ppg
8. Indiana 69.9 ppg
9. Michigan 69.3
10. Penn State 69.1
11. Iowa 67.6 ppg

PPG vs. Opponents with RPI #1-100
1. Purdue 73.1 ppg
2. Illinois 72 ppg
3. Michigan State 70.9 ppg
4. Ohio State 68.3 ppg
5. Northwestern 66.8 ppg
6. Gophers 65.1 ppg
7. Indiana 65 ppg
8. Wisconsin 64.1 ppg
9. Penn State 60 ppg
10. Michigan 58.8 ppg
11. Iowa 56.7 ppg

What this shows is the Gophers have the most significant gap between what they score vs. crappy opponents (82.6) and what they score vs. quality opponents (65.1). That's a 17.5 ppg difference. The next biggest differential is Iowa at 10.9.

What all this tells me is the Gophers are best in the Big Ten at racking up points vs. inferior competition. Not meant to be a criticism of the Gophers, per se, it's just what the numbers show.
 




"The only stat that really matters is the win loss record."

No argument here. I just wanted to prove that FOT isn't the only one here that can recite meaningless stats.;)
 

nuggett said:
The only stat that really matters is the win loss record
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See, this is why you UK a-holes are the most recist fans in this country. If win or loss was the only thing that you cared, why did you give Tubby so much hard time when all he did at Uk was winning. Forget about your wins this year. SEC teams are the worst teams in the nation with the exception of Vandy that you beat by 2 points.
 

underground629 said:
Either way, it is a little surprising that the gophers are 2nd in scoring in the BT at 69.2 (Purdue is 1st at 69.5), and 3rd to last in opponent ppg at 68.5.
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Big 10 has often been "Slug-n-Chug" rather than "Run-n-Gun" offensively.

Gophers are #1 (in terms of PPG) offensively and #2 in conference games among Big 10 teams.

The Gophers problems have been defensively. Their defensive numbers are weak. Purdue and Ohio State on the road. IU and Northwestern (also) but those were OT games to be fair.
 

nuggett said:
The only stat that really matters is the win loss record
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So a coach that wins 76% of his games (the same as UK all-time) and 72% of his NCAA games (3% higher than UK all-time) over 10 seasons is perfectly OK as Kentucky coach then?
 

Who is talking about UK here? The original post was about GOPHER basketball.

48% of B10 games and 0% of NCAA games.

Let's not forget 0-10 vs. MSU and Purdue - but that will change tonight.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
See, this is why you UK a-holes are the most recist fans in this country. If win or loss was the only thing that you cared, why did you give Tubby so much hard time when all he did at Uk was winning. Forget about your wins this year. SEC teams are the worst teams in the nation with the exception of Vandy that you beat by 2 points.
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Being from Kentucky doesn't mean racist.
Rodney King - California NOT KENTUCKY
Harvard professor arrested in his home - Mass. NOT KENTUCKY
There are some fans in Minn that are critical of Tubby. Are they racist also ?

Have you been to Kentucky and met the people there or are you just repeating
"what you heard"

I have stated before on this board that Tubby is to high class and has high enough
professional credentials that he doesn't need someone playing the race card to
defend him. I also happen to know he would NOT condone it.

Tubby only got a hard time given to him his last 2 years when UK was not ranked and
there was no help on the horizon.
I always wonder why Minn fans are so rabid against Ky fans.
Since, according to you, the rabid fans ran Tubby off and straight to Minn.
You simply do not know, other than what you have heard why Tubby left UK.
Pressure to win is only ONE reason. There were others.

You should be happy that Tubby left Kentucky. After all, its the reason
he came to Minn and became your coach.

I should know, I live here and probably have a better knowledge than you.

As for the SEC
All conferences go up and down.

As I recall the 2009 Title went to the ACC
2008 Big 12
2006 and 2007 SEC
How many titles have come back to the Big 10 since 1990
I know the SEC has at least 4

How bad is the SEC ?

I think Florida beat Mich St. this year and
I also think the SEC has more than 1 school in the top 20
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
So a coach that wins 76% of his games (the same as UK all-time) and 72% of his NCAA games (3% higher than UK all-time) over 10 seasons is perfectly OK as Kentucky coach then?
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Tubby was doing great until his last 2 seasons. Although not terrible they were not
exactly great years either. UK was not ranked most of those 2 years, lost 25 games
during those 2 years and left the NCAA Tourn. on the 1st weekend of those 2 years.
It also appeared that there was not a bright spot in the future as UK did NOT have
a stellar recruiting class headed their way. Patterson was the only bright spot and
even he had NOT committed to UK until after Tubby left so he was not guaranteed
as a UK player. Every basketball sports commentator across the country was very
quick to tell about UK no longer getting top players.

You tend to bring up what Tubby did at some point in the past as verification of
what he IS going to do in the future. While at Tulsa, Geo. UK, he did this, that, etc.

ALL I am saying is that because Tubby had success at some point in the past is in
no way indicative of what he will do against Purdue tonight or the remainder of
this season.

Case in point:
According to your formula, Minn. making the NCAA Tourney this year should not even
be in doubt because he made it at Tulsa, Geo. and UK. As we know, it is very much
in doubt. See what I mean ?

Its not even about Tubby. It could be ANY coach.
Calhoun, Pitino, Williams have all been successful and made the tourney and all
have titles but all of them may not make it in this year.

I believe that you have to look at how a particular season is playing out and
not what a coach did somewhere else. No more, no less
 

nuggett said:
Being from Kentucky doesn't mean racist.
Rodney King - California NOT KENTUCKY
Harvard professor arrested in his home - Mass. NOT KENTUCKY
There are some fans in Minn that are critical of Tubby. Are they racist also ?

Have you been to Kentucky and met the people there or are you just repeating
"what you heard"

I have stated before on this board that Tubby is to high class and has high enough
professional credentials that he doesn't need someone playing the race card to
defend him. I also happen to know he would NOT condone it.

Tubby only got a hard time given to him his last 2 years when UK was not ranked and
there was no help on the horizon.
I always wonder why Minn fans are so rabid against Ky fans.
Since, according to you, the rabid fans ran Tubby off and straight to Minn.
You simply do not know, other than what you have heard why Tubby left UK.
Pressure to win is only ONE reason. There were others.

You should be happy that Tubby left Kentucky. After all, its the reason
he came to Minn and became your coach.

I should know, I live here and probably have a better knowledge than you.

As for the SEC
All conferences go up and down.

As I recall the 2009 Title went to the ACC
2008 Big 12
2006 and 2007 SEC
How many titles have come back to the Big 10 since 1990
I know the SEC has at least 4

How bad is the SEC ?

I think Florida beat Mich St. this year and
I also think the SEC has more than 1 school in the top 20
Click to expand...

Yes, I lived in KY, Bowling Green to be exact. There are so many inferiority complexes among its citizens. The only thing that you feel good about your backward state is UK basketball team. It has to be winning al all cost. Tubby did it in a right way. It just doesn’t make sense to come here stir things up. You and your likes have so much hatred for the man who won so many games for you. It cannot be justified other than racism. Tubby is doing well here and most people love him. He will turn this program around while you at UK will look forward to your NCAA penalties or invitation to NIT next year like Florida has been for the past two years. If you consider UT a top 25 team, you must know nothing about basketball. As I said, the only legal decent team in SEC is Vandy that is coached by a former Big10 guy.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Same is true of most Big 10 teams. Scored more (higher PPG) in OOC than in Big 10 play.
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Give it up FOT. Even Tubby says that we are not a good half court offensive team. I heard him say that in a post game interview. The games we have scored a ton came at the expense of weak opponents who couldn't handle our defensive pressure. We also happen to have 2 conference overtime games - both of which added a lot to our Big Ten average.
 

In an attempt to get this back on track, I think scoring average is flawed. Too much of that is based on pace that a team plays and number of shots taken.

Points per possession (or points per 100 possessions) is much more of an accurate indicator of how effective a team's offense is.

Big Ten rankings for points per 100 possessions
1. Wisconsin 116.3
2. OSU 116
3. Purdue 114.3
4. Michigan State 114.2
5. Northwestern 112.8
6. Minnesota 111.4
7. Illinois 109.1


I think the difference between the Gophers non-conference and conference and top 100 and not top 100 scoring results almost exclusively from pace.

Good teams are able to slow down the Gophers and make them play more of a halfcourt game. Bad teams aren't able to do that. The Gophers are good in the open court and not as good in the halfcourt.
 

anonymous said:
I think the difference between the Gophers non-conference and conference and top 100 and not top 100 scoring results almost exclusively from pace.

Good teams are able to slow down the Gophers and make them play more of a halfcourt game. Bad teams aren't able to do that. The Gophers are good in the open court and not as good in the halfcourt.
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Yes - except I might change your last sentence to "...are good in the open court against lesser teams and overall poor in the halfcourt" :/
 

Thank you for throwing that stats out in every possible situation. It's especially great when it's irrelevant to the post. FOT just said it was an interesting stat. Nothing wrong with that.

Art Vandelay said:
Here's another interesting stat.

Tubby is 24-26 in B10 games. Who cares how many points you score if you don't win.
Click to expand...
 

Thanks for the info. At first I couldn't believe we were that high in scoring but that makes more sense now.

SelectionSunday said:
PPG vs. Opponents with RPI #101+
1. Gophers 82.6 ppg
2. Ohio State 79.1 ppg
3. Michigan State 78.3 ppg
4. Purdue 74.8 ppg
5. Wisconsin 73.2 ppg
6. Illinois 71.7 ppg
7. Northwestern 71.1 ppg
8. Indiana 69.9 ppg
9. Michigan 69.3
10. Penn State 69.1
11. Iowa 67.6 ppg

PPG vs. Opponents with RPI #1-100
1. Purdue 73.1 ppg
2. Illinois 72 ppg
3. Michigan State 70.9 ppg
4. Ohio State 68.3 ppg
5. Northwestern 66.8 ppg
6. Gophers 65.1 ppg
7. Indiana 65 ppg
8. Wisconsin 64.1 ppg
9. Penn State 60 ppg
10. Michigan 58.8 ppg
11. Iowa 56.7 ppg

What this shows is the Gophers have the most significant gap between what they score vs. crappy opponents (82.6) and what they score vs. quality opponents (65.1). That's a 17.5 ppg difference. The next biggest differential is Iowa at 10.9.

What all this tells me is the Gophers are best in the Big Ten at racking up points vs. inferior competition. Not meant to be a criticism of the Gophers, per se, it's just what the numbers show.
Click to expand...
 


It's weird that we usually think of them as a defensive team but you're right, their defensive numbers are really weak other than blocks and steals. I guess mainly our opponent 3 point percentages. We seem to give up so many uncontested 3s this year and we have a lot more lapses where we just give up easy buckets in general. Nolen really did make a huge difference. We can't create turnovers for crap without him and our press is worthless now.

Friend Of Tubby said:
Big 10 has often been "Slug-n-Chug" rather than "Run-n-Gun" offensively.

Gophers are #1 (in terms of PPG) offensively and #2 in conference games among Big 10 teams.

The Gophers problems have been defensively. Their defensive numbers are weak. Purdue and Ohio State on the road. IU and Northwestern (also) but those were OT games to be fair.
Click to expand...
 

If you can change the topic why can't he? His original post was about an interesting stat, but you turned it into Tubby not being good enough.

Art Vandelay said:
Who is talking about UK here? The original post was about GOPHER basketball.

48% of B10 games and 0% of NCAA games.

Let's not forget 0-10 vs. MSU and Purdue - but that will change tonight.
Click to expand...
 

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