Interesting Comentary: Lance Stephenson

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You just beat me to it, SOAB. I'm going to post the Washington Post article below. This kid must be some kind of heacache, although you wonder how much of it is attitude/father involvement and how much is the questionable amateur status of Stephenson that is causing programs to shy away.

Interesting list of suitors though-Memphis and Arizona (new coaches, you would think the trigger would have been pulled by now if it was going to happen), Florida International (looks like Isiah Thomas is eager to grab some headlines) and Florida are listed-is Billy D desperate?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/31/AR2009053102146.html?nav=emailpage
 

Sorry coolhand, :). Do you think that NCAA starts looking at getting rid of the one and done rule? As the years have gone by I think it might be hurting college basketball more than helping.
 

From everything I've heard, David Stern & the NBA like it so much, there's talk of extending it to two years out of high school for players to declare for the draft. The NCAA/colleges don't have a say in the rule, but I think they are enjoying the $$$ and benefits that come with the premium prep talent delaying their ascent to the professional ranks for a semester or two. It does seem that a groundswell of problems are occurring with the requirement to wait a year to head towards the NBA though, when you consider the cases of O.J. Mayo, Derrick Rose, Renardo Sidney, Stephenson, etc. I don't know that there's enough there for the NCAA to feel the need to do anything though. I'd be surprised to see any changes anytime soon to the rule, outside of extending it to two years in the next collective bargaining agreement by the NBA.
 

coolhandgopher said:
From everything I've heard, David Stern & the NBA like it so much, there's talk of extending it to two years out of high school for players to declare for the draft. The NCAA/colleges don't have a say in the rule, but I think they are enjoying the $$$ and benefits that come with the premium prep talent delaying their ascent to the professional ranks for a semester or two. It does seem that a groundswell of problems are occurring with the requirement to wait a year to head towards the NBA though, when you consider the cases of O.J. Mayo, Derrick Rose, Renardo Sidney, Stephenson, etc. I don't know that there's enough there for the NCAA to feel the need to do anything though. I'd be surprised to see any changes anytime soon to the rule, outside of extending it to two years in the next collective bargaining agreement by the NBA.
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I think an elimination of the rule would help to an extent but as to changing the landscape in regards to cheating? I don't buy it. Kids like Rose and John Wall won't be an issue because they'll make the jump and not have to worry about things like grades or SAT's but those borderline kids are the ones it will hurt.


Cool, have you read the article about Renardo Sydney's attorney? He's a specialist in the these eligibility cases and he's livid that the NCAA asked for access to his parents financial records and bank accounts. He had a great quote about it: "We're in the process of telling them they're out of their damn minds". I don't know how I feel about the NCAA wanting access to an individuals banking and financial records. That seems like an extreme invasion of privacy.

Considering the NCAA can't even trust their own Clearinghouse and can't decide who is eligible, who is not and who is responsible and what action should be taken in cases like these I don't like the fact that they want the power to dig around in an area like this.
 


The Truth said:
I don't know how I feel about the NCAA wanting access to an individuals banking and financial records. That seems like an extreme invasion of privacy.
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I too have mixed emotions. But I had to provide that type of infomration when we filled out the FAFSA form to request a scholarhsip. So if you're requesting an athloetic scholarship, is it completely unreasonalbe to have to provide financial info?

Of course it may be that the NCAA is going well beyond what we had to do for FAFSA.
 

Jim V2 said:
I too have mixed emotions. But I had to provide that type of infomration when we filled out the FAFSA form to request a scholarhsip. So if you're requesting an athloetic scholarship, is it completely unreasonalbe to have to provide financial info?

Of course it may be that the NCAA is going well beyond what we had to do for FAFSA.
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I was going to bring that up in my original post. I had a partial scholarship my freshman year of college but still qualified for financial aid. My parents had to submit their W-2's and tax filings as I recall to see what I qualified for. What Sydney's attorney was saying was that the NCAA wanted that and access to their checking accounts, savings accounts and records of all their financial transactions.

If any cheating is going on do we honestly think there is going to be a paper trail? They don't call it "under the table" recruiting because you're getting checks and receipts and I doubt anyone is reporting these kind of things to the IRS. Even if it were where does the NCAA have the authority to do that when they aren't governed by due process or any real legal obligations to protect those they are inquiring about?
 

Although I have little to no sympathy for the NCAA organization, I think the words of Sidney's attorney and also the kid from Chicago in the Rose case (who claimed the NCAA threatened to take his eligibility away if he didn't sing like a bird) have to be taken with that old grain of salt. The NCAA is easy to paint as the evil empire, but we are talking about a lawyer, a lawyer representing a family who have unquestionably walked a thin line regarding amateur eligibility with their son.

I'm not saying that the NCAA hasn't done these things; I'm saying that we shouldn't automatically consider the words to be golden of people who find themselves in hot water with the NCAA.
 

coolhandgopher said:
Although I have little to no sympathy for the NCAA organization, I think the words of Sidney's attorney and also the kid from Chicago in the Rose case (who claimed the NCAA threatened to take his eligibility away if he didn't sing like a bird) have to be taken with that old grain of salt. The NCAA is easy to paint as the evil empire, but we are talking about a lawyer, a lawyer representing a family who have unquestionably walked a thin line regarding amateur eligibility with their son.

I'm not saying that the NCAA hasn't done these things; I'm saying that we shouldn't automatically consider the words to be golden of people who find themselves in hot water with the NCAA.
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I would normally agree with you if a precedent hadn't already been established in regards to the NCAA's tactics in these types of investigations.
 



In what cases has that precedent been set by the NCAA previously? There's not much (anything?) good I can say about the NCAA, but I haven't been aware of such heavy-handedness in their investigations.
 

The Truth said:
I was going to bring that up in my original post. I had a partial scholarship my freshman year of college but still qualified for financial aid. My parents had to submit their W-2's and tax filings as I recall to see what I qualified for. What Sydney's attorney was saying was that the NCAA wanted that and access to their checking accounts, savings accounts and records of all their financial transactions.

If any cheating is going on do we honestly think there is going to be a paper trail? They don't call it "under the table" recruiting because you're getting checks and receipts and I doubt anyone is reporting these kind of things to the IRS. Even if it were where does the NCAA have the authority to do that when they aren't governed by due process or any real legal obligations to protect those they are inquiring about?
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1. No, there won't be a paper trail of under the table payments. But basic forensic accounting can figure those things out. You look at the deposits--where did the cash/checks being deposited come from? You look at lifestyle--is the lifestyle covered by payments from checking accounts? Or does there seem to be an alternate source for payments? And you look at what types of things are being purchased from savings--what lifestyle does it portend and what were those things used for?

2. The NCAA arguably doesn't need any authority. It is not forcing anyone to submit those records. It's only saying that if you volunteer to submit them, then you'll be considered for an athletic scholarship.

The more interesting question to me is what happens if a state legislature decides that their State University doesn't have to comply with NCAA rules, and can offer a scholarship to anyone it wants. OF course the NCAA can say that if they don't comply they will be precluded from NCAA events including championships, records, etc., but in the absence of statutory authority to do so, one could argue that preclusion at this point constitutes anti-trust. The NCAA could rejoin that it's not anti-trust if commerce is not involved, but the commerce clause of the Constitution has been held to cover many things you might not immediately think sound like commerce, and it's hard to argue that gate receipts etc do not constitute commerce.
 

coolhandgopher said:
In what cases has that precedent been set by the NCAA previously? There's not much (anything?) good I can say about the NCAA, but I haven't been aware of such heavy-handedness in their investigations.
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How about claiming to be a federal bank examiner in an attempt to obtain the banking records of a Oklahoma St. booster in the 70's? Or the NCAA ignoring evidence of other violations (as was the case of UT in the 90's) to obtain evidence and testimony in an ongoing investigation? Or how about the treatment by investigators of Deon Thomas?

It's not very pretty and not every investigator is guilty but the NCAA is not above using questionable methods and tactics to prove a case.
 

The Truth said:
How about claiming to be a federal bank examiner in an attempt to obtain the banking records of a Oklahoma St. booster in the 70's?
It's not very pretty and not every investigator is guilty but the NCAA is not above using questionable methods and tactics to prove a case.
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That's not something I ever heard about (not denying, it though.) But I think you have to be careful about pinning that on the NCAA. There are employees in every large organization that go beyond what the organization or society sanctions in pursuit of that organization's goals. Again, I don't know, but I doubt that the NCAA authorized or would have allowed such behavior, if for no other reason than not only is it overly heavy handed, it's criminal. Were that behavior to occur today, and were there sufficient evidence that the NCAA had a policy allowing such behavior, I think RICO claims (racketeering) would be brought against the NCAA and it would likely be the demise of the organization.
 



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