If you're stadium is smaller than 60K, "you're mainly along for the ride"

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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so says an Omaha World Herald columnist:

"But a key element in measuring long-term success in college football is stadium size, especially what's known as “60,000-seat Stadium Syndrome.”

If your stadium is a decent amount bigger than 60,000 seats, you're in it to win it. You've shown commitment. If your stadium is smaller than that, you're mainly along for the ride."

http://www.omaha.com/article/201304...-inevitable-but-it-has-its-pluses-and-minuses

Go Gophers!!
 



Nebraska hasn't lost to Minnesota since 1960. The are 16 - 0 against us since then. No surprise that they are not exited about playing us. I imagine most of their fans think about the Gophers in pretty much the same way as they used to think about Iowa State except the Cyclones beat the Huskers three times during their last 16 games.
 

Oregon - 54K
Stanford - 50K

Guess they should just shut those programs down...
 


Two thoughts:

1) Oregon Ducks football is along for the ride
2) If your state's population is under 2 million, you really aren't a state. You are only a territory. It is called the "Nebraska syndrome"
 

WannaCMyGophers said:
Oregon - 54K
Stanford - 50K

Guess they should just shut those programs down...
Click to expand...

Very well said. What about basketball, Cameron Indoor is tiny. Under that logic, I guess Duke is not in it to win it.

A lot of fish wrap writers are just people who wish they could play but couldn't but they sure can complain about it.
 

Schnauzer said:
Two thoughts:

1) Oregon Ducks football is along for the ride
2) If your state's population is under 2 million, you really aren't a state. You are only a territory. It is called the "Nebraska syndrome"
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Your number 2 point is great.

I remember when Pres. Clinton Administration gave their last press conference before he left office, the Press Secretary stated that the President visited every state except Nebraska during his eight years of office. You can blatantly hear a reporter say "I guess Nebraska does not exist then"
 

I think Kansas St, Stanford, Boise St. and Oregon are all below or not much beyond 60K. Illinois recently removed some endzone seats and are at or below 60k too. Northwestern seems committed to football and they beat Nebraska two years ago. Outside of the Big 10 and SEC and the two PAC 10 stadiums in LA there aren't huge stadiums are not the norm.

I think Vince Lombardi said it's better to play in a full 50k seat stadium that play in a 60k seat stadium with 50k people in it. No doubt people love Nebraska football but when you look at their stadium it is a testament to a fan base built of an extended period of time.
 



If you admit Tommy Lee to your University for a reality show and get kicked out of the AAU you aren't really a University. More like a JuCo.
 

I think the larger point is that MOST schools with stadiums smaller than that don't have the neccesary fan support or resources needed to compete with the big boys and anyone arguing that is a homer. Boise is the biggest outlier in the history of outliers. Stanford traditionally is bad or mediocre. Oregon just happens to have the founder of Nike as it's biggest booster and is basically a giant advertisement for the company. None of those schools are traditional powers. The powers have fan bases that easily sell out 70k+ stadiums. They have all the needed resources and have sustained success.
 

oleboy41 said:
I think the larger point is that MOST schools with stadiums smaller than that don't have the neccesary fan support or resources needed to compete with the big boys and anyone arguing that is a homer. Boise is the biggest outlier in the history of outliers. Stanford traditionally is bad or mediocre. Oregon just happens to have the founder of Nike as it's biggest booster and is basically a giant advertisement for the company. None of those schools are traditional powers. The powers have fan bases that easily sell out 70k+ stadiums. They have all the needed resources and have sustained success.
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Congrats, oleboy. You are the only one who understood the Nebraska guy's point. Standford and Oregon have demonstrated a huge commitment to their football programs even though they don't have large stadiums. Can anyone say the same thing about the Gopher football program? The Nebraska sportswriter was right on the money. Don't shoot the messenger.
 




Ironic that the massive effort and $$$ needed to build a new on campus stadium led to exhibit "A" (the actual stadium!) of how there isn't a committment to the program. Clearly, they should have stayed in the Metrodome to avoid the "60,000 seat stadium syndrome"
 

gopherMD said:
Brain dead statement with no evidence to support it.
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There's not just a lack of evidence, there's evidence that contradicts his premise. He gets it backwards: building a large stadium doesn't show a commitment, it simply reflects demand for tickets. If you can fill a larger stadium, then it probably makes sense to build it. But building a larger stadium won't sell more tickets. If the capacity significantly exceeds demand, the stadium seems like a tomb.
 

I'm not sure, maybe you could check with the NCAA about the capacity...and...

corcoran1 said:
What is the size of oregon's stadium?
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while you are at it try to find out why else the NCAA is interested in football at Oregon...

; 0 )
 

Tennessee--large stadium and how relevant have they been?
 

oleboy41 said:
I think the larger point is that MOST schools with stadiums smaller than that don't have the neccesary fan support or resources needed to compete with the big boys and anyone arguing that is a homer. Boise is the biggest outlier in the history of outliers. Stanford traditionally is bad or mediocre. Oregon just happens to have the founder of Nike as it's biggest booster and is basically a giant advertisement for the company. None of those schools are traditional powers. The powers have fan bases that easily sell out 70k+ stadiums. They have all the needed resources and have sustained success.
Click to expand...

I agree. Over the past thirty five or forty years I have often questioned whether or not the administration...the powers that RUN the University of Minnesota have in any way, shape or form been "...in it to win it..." Basically, the U of M, up until the advent of the professional sports storm that hit the Twin Cities in 1961 with the Twins and the Vikings was a Top Three Big Ten Football University. They could compete with Michigan and the Ohio State University pretty much in terms of size of stadium and were also within the top three Big Ten Teams in terms of Big Ten wins many years. Michigan and the Ohio State University became very serious about commitments to their Football Programs. with Woody and Bo. The size of their stadiums continued to grow over the course of time. By the 1980's Minnesota abandoned their on campus stadium after letting it go to pot due to lack of commitment and caved in totally to the Twins and Vikings as the 3rd tenant in that damn dome. In fact, for the benefit of our friend, the journalist from Omaha, the Gophers were VERY competitive...more than competitive with the University of Nebraska Football Program up until that 1961 period of time. But, the Ohio State...the University of Michigan...and the University of Nebraska stayed committed...and even stepped up their commitments while the administrations at the U of M and the powers that be...including mlb and the nfl rearranged priorities and commitments in the Twin Cities. Our football program moved in a totally different direction and was backed by totally diminished commitment to excellence in football as a desirable trait of the overall mission of the University as compared to what they were doing in Columbus, Ann arbor and Lincoln. I think the journalist from Omaha makes a very valid point.

I don't apologize for the size of our stadium today. It is beautiful. It did take a lot of commitment to even begin to climb back into the ball game. Playing "start from scratch" when programs like Nebraska, Michigan and the Ohio State have had half a century of success, sell-outs with their expanding stadiums and programs makes it very hard to appear to be committed to be: "... in it to win it..." The administrators and the powers that be at the U of M almost waited too long to even begin to try to show some commitment. Time will tell if the administration and the powers that may be at the U of M ARE committed to win it...But, at least we have tried to climb back in the race. For today: I'll happily take what we have and cheer for the Gophers to move forward...to climb back in it..."to make a commitment to start competing with those who have previously demonstrated that they ARE: "...in it to win it..." I think the journalist provided a clue as to what kind of commitment from an administration, a football program and a fan base it does take to: "...be in it to win it..." For the longest time the administration at the U of M and the powers that be were more than satisfied with "riding..." along and taking the softer, easier way and were willing to collect the revenue share football provided to pay for the non-revenue and Title IX Sports. They have to keep playing "catch up" now to ditch the "...less than 60,000 reputation..." that the administration was so willing to accept for the majority of the time during the past half century... "Keep shaking it administrators...we are really playing "catch up" to many of the other Big Ten Programs....Always remember 1961. 1961: the year Memorial Stadium started going away...the year the boys of summer stole the show...and only the nfl would have a shot at 60,000 plus. 1961: the WILDERNESS YEARS had begun. Will our Gophers ever expand their stadium and experience: 60,001...commitment to win fun!

; 0 )
 

When Memorial Stadium was built, it had a capacity of 52,809. It was expanded to 56,652 in 1970. Ohio Stadium had a capacity of 66.210 when it was built in 1922, and has steadily increased ever since. Michigan Stadium was built with a capacity of 82,000 when it was built in 1927 and like Ohio Stadium has been steadily increasing.

Even during the Golden Age of Gopher football, the stadium didn't expand and Ohio State's and Michigan's stadiums were considerably larger.
 

oleboy41 said:
I think the larger point is that MOST schools with stadiums smaller than that don't have the neccesary fan support or resources needed to compete with the big boys and anyone arguing that is a homer. Boise is the biggest outlier in the history of outliers. Stanford traditionally is bad or mediocre. Oregon just happens to have the founder of Nike as it's biggest booster and is basically a giant advertisement for the company. None of those schools are traditional powers. The powers have fan bases that easily sell out 70k+ stadiums. They have all the needed resources and have sustained success.
Click to expand...

Again, saying the size of the stadium is a reflection of the program's commitment to win is reverse causality. Demand for tickets and the ability to recoup the investment made in a stadium is a result of a winning program. Not the other way around.

Also, I'd hardly call Stanford traditionally bad or mediocre. 2 national titles in their history, and 3 conference titles in the past 2 decades (with quite a few times placing 2-4 as well) to me makes them a mediocre to good team that has some sustained success the last few years thanks to a great coaching hire who left the program with a pretty decent coach in his place. That they have a small stadium is not due to the program's commitment to success but rather their student body, alumni, and area lack of interest in college football.
 

RodentRampage said:
When Memorial Stadium was built, it had a capacity of 52,809. It was expanded to 56,652 in 1970. Ohio Stadium had a capacity of 66.210 when it was built in 1922, and has steadily increased ever since. Michigan Stadium was built with a capacity of 82,000 when it was built in 1927 and like Ohio Stadium has been steadily increasing.

Even during the Golden Age of Gopher football, the stadium didn't expand and Ohio State's and Michigan's stadiums were considerably larger.
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Wonder if that had to do with the populations of Michigan and Ohio being vastly larger with vastly greater growth rates from 1900-1960???
 

RailBaronYarr said:
Again, saying the size of the stadium is a reflection of the program's commitment to win is reverse causality. Demand for tickets and the ability to recoup the investment made in a stadium is a result of a winning program. Not the other way around.

Also, I'd hardly call Stanford traditionally bad or mediocre. 2 national titles in their history, and 3 conference titles in the past 2 decades (with quite a few times placing 2-4 as well) to me makes them a mediocre to good team that has some sustained success the last few years thanks to a great coaching hire who left the program with a pretty decent coach in his place. That they have a small stadium is not due to the program's commitment to success but rather their student body, alumni, and area lack of interest in college football.
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Stanford has a 111-92 conference record since 1989 when Denny Green took over. Not great but certainly not bad.
 

RailBaronYarr said:
Wonder if that had to do with the populations of Michigan and Ohio being vastly larger with vastly greater growth rates from 1900-1960???
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The claim was made that Memorial Stadium used to keep up with the capacities of Ohio Stadium and Michigan Stadium, but it didn't. Memorial Stadium's capacity was well behind these two stadiums, and kept getting further behind. Yes, OSU and Michigan built larger stadiums because of higher populations and higher demand.

If demand increased at TCF so more capacity was needed, it would be great to expand, but expansion without increased demand wouldn't increase the demand. It would only make the stadium appear emptier. Memorial Stadium, from 1946-1964 (except for 1951 and 1959) had an average attendance over the stated capacity. They eventually did expand in 1970, but by then, the demand was no longer there.
 

OddStack said:
Tennessee--large stadium and how relevant have they been?
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National championship as recently as 1998 (six total). Three SEC championships in the 1990s, two more in the 1980s. Four East Division titles in the past decade. They've slipped a bit in the past decade, and the 70s weren't great. Otherwise, I'd say pretty relevant.
 

Nebraska's stadium isn't even up to 1st world building code. They stuck on about 10,000 seats without adding any exits. If there's EVER a crisis situation, it's impossible to remove people from certain parts of the stadium in under 30 minutes.

But yes, good football program.
 

RodentRampage said:
When Memorial Stadium was built, it had a capacity of 52,809. It was expanded to 56,652 in 1970. Ohio Stadium had a capacity of 66.210 when it was built in 1922, and has steadily increased ever since. Michigan Stadium was built with a capacity of 82,000 when it was built in 1927 and like Ohio Stadium has been steadily increasing. Even during the Golden Age of Gopher football, the stadium didn't expand and Ohio State's and Michigan's stadiums were considerably larger.[/QUOTE

"... They could compete with Michigan and the Ohio State University pretty much in terms of size of stadium and were also within the top three Big Ten Teams in terms of Big Ten wins many years. Michigan and the Ohio State University became very serious about commitments to their Football Programs. with Woody and Bo. The size of their stadiums continued to grow over the course of time. By the 1980's Minnesota abandoned their on campus stadium after letting it go to pot due to lack of commitment and caved in totally to the Twins and Vikings as the 3rd tenant in that damn dome. In fact, for the benefit of our friend, the journalist from Omaha, the Gophers were VERY competitive...more than competitive with the University of Nebraska Football Program up until that 1961 period of time..." (Quote

Yes, Michigan had some more capacity and Ohio State had a bit more capacity: yet, at that point in time the Gophers were a top 3 Big Ten program. They often didn't play the Ohio State under Bierman or during the first half of Murray's tenure, yet the Gophers were one of the top 3 programs. MSU didn't come into the conference until sometime near the mid-1950s. The Gopher's weren't facing a Big House of 112,000 or an Ohio Stadium of over 105,000. PSU wasn't in the Conference. The Gophers MEMORIAL STADIUM was more an average Big Ten Stadium. It was pretty much in the ball park figure of most Big Ten Stadiums. Larger than some....a bit smaller than some. BUT, up until 1961, the Gophers were probably a top three or top four ALL-TIME Big Ten Program if you were to count up the number of conference wins vs. conference losses. The point is that up until 1961, the Gophers were quite competitive with Michigan and the Ohio State in terms of conference standings in many years. And they were more than competitive with Nebraska up until 1961. That 1961 period was a water-shed period in terms of the Gopher's commitment to win it. Had they kept up with the Ohio State and Michigan in terms of rehabbing, keeping up and adding on to their stadium, they most certainly have more than met that 60,000 seat stadium proof of commitment level. It would be my contention that following 1961, the administration...the powers that be...and the fan base of the University of Minnesota no longer really cared too much about being in it to win it and started being satisfied with just going along for the ride as far as Big Ten Football was concerned. Remember that year...1961. Do some checking to see what happened...who was in charge...what happened to the fan base...the casual fans....the corporate community. For the U of M Football Program, the 60,000 mark was probably never to be...after what happened in 1961. And, maybe some day we will know IF there is any way to overcome that 60,000 seat syndrome...OR...that 1961 all-out attack on the underpinnings of Golden Gopher Football...right now, the jury is still out...This Omaha columnist has as good a formula for separating the "in it to win it..." vs. the "...come on and take a free ride..." crowds out there...

; 0 )
Click to expand...
 

He's got a point. But in our case, the fact that we just built a brand new stadium does kinda offset that whole "commitment" thing. Our problem here has been the administration in the past hasn't shown hardly any true level of commitment to get the program going, or just had no clue on how to support the program. I feel like we're finally seeing evidence that's starting to take place. If it continues, I think we'll see ourselves at least elevate into the level where every few years we can expect to compete for the division (and in turn the conference title I suppose). But it's gotta be a full on effort from ALL levels of the program, administration all the way to fans and students.

Hopefully we'll join the 60K club in the next decade and things can just keep building from there.
 

Pre 1961 equals gopher football only game in town. Post 1961 equals pro sport takeover. Pre 1961 equals 7 national champions and many big ten championships. Post 1961 equals no national championships and 1 big ten championship. The man has a point. Gopher fans became pro sports fans, corporate money went to pro sports, the media went to pro sports and the u of m surrendered.
 

loki said:
Pre 1961 equals gopher football only game in town. Post 1961 equals pro sport takeover. Pre 1961 equals 7 national champions and many big ten championships. Post 1961 equals no national championships and 1 big ten championship. The man has a point. Gopher fans became pro sports fans, corporate money went to pro sports, the media went to pro sports and the u of m surrendered.
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Then it is time for Teague, Kill, and Pitino to Storm the Bastille and take over this state.

GO GOPHERS...
 

Hates Monikers said:
National championship as recently as 1998 (six total). Three SEC championships in the 1990s, two more in the 1980s. Four East Division titles in the past decade. They've slipped a bit in the past decade, and the 70s weren't great. Otherwise, I'd say pretty relevant.
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I understand they've been a decent program, but the essence of the article is that the investment into programs equals success. This is another example that refutes that. They've declined since the last title 15 years ago in spite of a 100k+ stadium. They've been under .500 in 5 of the last 8 seasons. It appears that investments aren't automatic results.

Division titles are decent, but it's only been two in the last decade 2004 and 2007 not four as you claim. (2003 was a 3 way tie and they didn't play in the Chip, and 2001 is 12 seasons ago.) (FWIW that's a shout out to DPO) The 5 titles from 45+ years ago is Gopher-esque. Does that count? I know Tee Martin led them to one, but they ran Fullmer out of town--they are in a rebuilding mode.
 

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