I honestly don't know which one is worst

[hungan1]

The firing of Tubby Smith for his "body of work" per Norwood Teague, or the hiring of a green pedigreed name head coach in Pitino? Villa 7 is a joke espoused by Mega Tongue.

We botched the recruiting of Alex Illikainen, got poor inside game, etc..., etc...

Is he recruiting the right combo of kids? I mean he won the NIT with primarily Tubby's recruits. But since then, I have yet to see any thing out of him that warrants the replacement of Tubby.

Should we be patient and see what gives in the next three years? I could be wrong, and he becomes a decent coach and win a few games...

 

[cncmin]

The firing of Tubby Smith for his "body of work" per Norwood Teague, or the hiring of a green pedigreed name head coach in Pitino? Villa 7 is a joke espoused by Mega Tongue.

We botched the recruiting of Alex Illikainen, got poor inside game, etc..., etc...

Is he recruiting the right combo of kids? I mean he won the NIT with primarily Tubby's recruits. But since then, I have yet to see any thing out of him that warrants the replacement of Tubby.

Should we be patient and see what gives in the next three years? I could be wrong, and he becomes a decent coach and win a few games...

In bold is the question we should be asking regarding recruiting. Certainly recruiting seems to be doing well, overall, since Pitino's arrival. But, is he getting the type of "team"-oriented athlete that will put team ahead of individual and help win games? Too early to tell, but a lot of signs suggest that this squad is very poor at the team level. Certainly the cupboard of youngest players that Tubby left was bare, so perhaps, in terms of type of team formed, it's not yet fair to make any conclusions. But, as I posted in a different thread, this team plays absolutely horrific basketball in terms of "team", and that is the most prominent issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[cjbfbp]

The firing of Tubby Smith for his "body of work" per Norwood Teague, or the hiring of a green pedigreed name head coach in Pitino?

Don't conflate the two acts. Reasonable people can differ about whether Tubby should have been fired. I can see both sides, but I was very frustrated seeing how the potential of his last team was squandered and how the quality of his recruiting diminished over his last two years. As to the hiring of Pitino, I don't see how anyone can still believe that was a good hire. Firings don't have to set back a program for very long, but bad hirings do.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

The firing of Tubby Smith for his "body of work" per Norwood Teague, or the hiring of a green pedigreed name head coach in Pitino? Villa 7 is a joke espoused by Mega Tongue.

We botched the recruiting of Alex Illikainen, got poor inside game, etc..., etc...

Is he recruiting the right combo of kids? I mean he won the NIT with primarily Tubby's recruits. But since then, I have yet to see any thing out of him that warrants the replacement of Tubby.

Should we be patient and see what gives in the next three years? I could be wrong, and he becomes a decent coach and win a few games...

Not that it means anything regarding your post, but I don't believe that Pitino was a Villa 7 guy. (Man, can't believe home much I detest the Villa 7 crap)

 

[BleedGopher]

Can we please put this "Villa 7" stuff to bed?! It was widely reported at the time of the hire that Pitino is not a "Villa 7" guy. There's a lot to be frustrated with right now, but it has nothing to do with Mike Ellis' Villa 7 program.

Go Gophers!!

 

[GoodasGold]

Well, more to the point, you have the hiring of Norwood Teague, the firing of Tubby Smith and the hiring of Richard Pitino. I still can't decide what's the worser of the three.

 

[go 31]

....Firings don't have to set back a program for very long, but bad hirings do.

+1

 

[ethomasp31]

I was a Tubby fan and still follow how he is doing....I thought most of his treatment was unfair....but that said, I don't think his firing was necessarily the wrong move. The fan base was fed up, correctly or incorrectly, at the time....and it had become so toxic that a move might have been needed. I'll say one thing...at least the fans cared at that time...I think there is a lot more apathy towards the program right now....which works in Pitino's favor for making it through the next couple of years. I don't think he would have ever been hired here if his last name wasn't Pitino.

 

[GoodasGold]

I was a Tubby fan and still follow how he is doing....I thought most of his treatment was unfair....but that said, I don't think his firing was necessarily the wrong move. The fan base was fed up, correctly or incorrectly, at the time....and it had become so toxic that a move might have been needed. I'll say one thing...at least the fans cared at that time...I think there is a lot more apathy towards the program right now....which works in Pitino's favor for making it through the next couple of years. I don't think he would have ever been hired here if his last name wasn't Pitino.

What about Michael Krzyzewski? I think that name might have gotten him the job.

 

[EG#9]

It's amusing to me how past failed coaches look more appealing to people just because their successor failed worse (or in Pitino's case appears to many like he will fail). Tubby went six years (SIX!) without a winning record in the Big Ten. Glen Mason spent TEN years at Minnesota and averaged a 3-5 conference record and amazingly never beat a team that finished in the top 3 in the conference, much less finished in the top 3 himself (every team besides Mason's Gophers and Indiana finished in the top 3 at least once during that decade). Instead of saying, the "U" hired the wrong guy we have a large segment of posters that like to pretend that the previous coach was better than he was and the mistake was firing that guy. The arrow on both Mason and Tubby was decidedly pointing down when they were fired (given players graduating and recent recruiting classes), and the peaks weren't exactly very high.

Pitino didn't win with "Tubby's guys". His only (very) moderately successful season was only possible with his PG recruit DeAndre Mathieu and a significantly slimmed down Mo Walker. Tubby had shown no ability/awareness to get a PG in here and was going to trot out Andre Hollins at that spot and there is no reason to believe Mo Walker would have gotten in shape under him either as he hadn't in 3 years. Pitino overachieved that first year, and the vast majority of fans were willing to give him credit for that year.

 

[KyGopherfan]

It's amusing to me how past failed coaches look more appealing to people just because their successor failed worse (or in Pitino's case appears to many like he will fail). Tubby went six years (SIX!) without a winning record in the Big Ten. Glen Mason spent TEN years at Minnesota and averaged a 3-5 conference record and amazingly never beat a team that finished in the top 3 in the conference, much less finished in the top 3 himself (every team besides Mason's Gophers and Indiana finished in the top 3 at least once during that decade). Instead of saying, the "U" hired the wrong guy we have a large segment of posters that like to pretend that the previous coach was better than he was and the mistake was firing that guy. The arrow on both Mason and Tubby was decidedly pointing down when they were fired (given players graduating and recent recruiting classes), and the peaks weren't exactly very high.

Pitino didn't win with "Tubby's guys". His only (very) moderately successful season was only possible with his PG recruit DeAndre Mathieu and a significantly slimmed down Mo Walker. Tubby had shown no ability/awareness to get a PG in here and was going to trot out Andre Hollins at that spot and there is no reason to believe Mo Walker would have gotten in shape under him either as he hadn't in 3 years. Pitino overachieved that first year, and the vast majority of fans were willing to give him credit for that year.

Wait...so Pitino gets credit for his first year, but Tubby then consequently gets the blame for Pitino's failure in his 2nd and 3rd year? How does that work? I don't necessarily say you, but a lot of Pitino supporters are blaming Tubby for this mess we have today.

 

[cjbfbp]

It's amusing to me how past failed coaches look more appealing to people just because their successor failed worse (or in Pitino's case appears to many like he will fail).

Of course Tubby looks good compared to Pitino. Who wouldn't? Tubby wasn't a failed coach. He ran a B- program. That wasn't good enough for many people at the time, and that's OK. Universities and their fans have a right to want something better. Right now, Pitino is running a D- program and if he doesn't "appear to" be failing to you, then you must be a blind man.

 

[60's Guy]

Pitino screwed up the roster... we will be better next year...we'll have three additional players than we have available this year. They will all get minutes...that by itself will make a pretty significant difference.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Of course Tubby looks good compared to Pitino. Who wouldn't? Tubby wasn't a failed coach. He ran a B- program. That wasn't good enough for many people at the time, and that's OK. Universities and their fans have a right to want something better. Right now, Pitino is running a D- program and if he doesn't "appear to" be failing to you, then you must be a blind man.

We've gone from an RPI of 34 to an RPI of 138. Even if you believe the calculation methodology is flawed, this is enough of a change that more boosters should be taking notice.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[cjbfbp]

We've gone from an RPI of 34 to an RPI of 138. Even if you believe the calculation methodology is flawed, this is enough of a change that more boosters should be taking notice.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

It's actually worse than that (NCAA.org's RPI is not updated). ESPN's current estimate of the Gophers' RPI is 189. Only Rutgers in the Big Ten is lower. They are #177 on Sagarin and #185 on Pomeroy so it appears that regardless of methodology, one gets a similar ranking for the Gophers.

 

[Ewert86PC]

It's actually worse than that (NCAA.org's RPI is not updated). ESPN's current estimate of the Gophers' RPI is 189. Only Rutgers in the Big Ten is lower. They are #177 on Sagarin and #185 on Pomeroy so it appears that regardless of methodology, one gets a similar ranking for the Gophers.

Shouldn't a 150-plus drop in RPI in just three years bury the needle in the worry meter?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[ethomasp31]

It's amusing to me how past failed coaches look more appealing to people just because their successor failed worse (or in Pitino's case appears to many like he will fail). Tubby went six years (SIX!) without a winning record in the Big Ten. Glen Mason spent TEN years at Minnesota and averaged a 3-5 conference record and amazingly never beat a team that finished in the top 3 in the conference, much less finished in the top 3 himself (every team besides Mason's Gophers and Indiana finished in the top 3 at least once during that decade). Instead of saying, the "U" hired the wrong guy we have a large segment of posters that like to pretend that the previous coach was better than he was and the mistake was firing that guy. The arrow on both Mason and Tubby was decidedly pointing down when they were fired (given players graduating and recent recruiting classes), and the peaks weren't exactly very high.

Pitino didn't win with "Tubby's guys". His only (very) moderately successful season was only possible with his PG recruit DeAndre Mathieu and a significantly slimmed down Mo Walker. Tubby had shown no ability/awareness to get a PG in here and was going to trot out Andre Hollins at that spot and there is no reason to believe Mo Walker would have gotten in shape under him either as he hadn't in 3 years. Pitino overachieved that first year, and the vast majority of fans were willing to give him credit for that year.

Well Tubby took over a program that was in a lot worse shape than Minnesota....and after three years his program is in much better condition than ours....even without having good recruiting classes at Texas Tech. All I heard about last year was how good our recruiting class was going to be.....and now I'm hearing it again!! Sorry but so far the results stink....

 

[Otis]

40% of the recruiting class can't play!

 

[station19]

It's amusing to me how past failed coaches look more appealing to people just because their successor failed worse (or in Pitino's case appears to many like he will fail). Tubby went six years (SIX!) without a winning record in the Big Ten. Glen Mason spent TEN years at Minnesota and averaged a 3-5 conference record and amazingly never beat a team that finished in the top 3 in the conference, much less finished in the top 3 himself (every team besides Mason's Gophers and Indiana finished in the top 3 at least once during that decade). Instead of saying, the "U" hired the wrong guy we have a large segment of posters that like to pretend that the previous coach was better than he was and the mistake was firing that guy. The arrow on both Mason and Tubby was decidedly pointing down when they were fired (given players graduating and recent recruiting classes), and the peaks weren't exactly very high.

Pitino didn't win with "Tubby's guys". His only (very) moderately successful season was only possible with his PG recruit DeAndre Mathieu and a significantly slimmed down Mo Walker. Tubby had shown no ability/awareness to get a PG in here and was going to trot out Andre Hollins at that spot and there is no reason to believe Mo Walker would have gotten in shape under him either as he hadn't in 3 years. Pitino overachieved that first year, and the vast majority of fans were willing to give him credit for that year.

^THIS^

And why do they use the record of the following coach to complain about the firing of the former coach?

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

IMO, the firings of Mason and Smith fall into the same camp. They had reached the highest level they could (which was mediocre) and had to go.

The mistake was by Maturi & Teague in hiring ineffective replacements.

 

[howieramone]

Pitino screwed up the roster... we will be better next year...we'll have three additional players than we have available this year. They will all get minutes...that by itself will make a pretty significant difference.

+1