I gotta disagree

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Jdogg0821

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I've been a life long gopher fan, but after looking at the division alignments I'm very torn.

One, I'm happy we're keeping our rivalries in tact. However, I can't help but feel we have no chance moving forward. All five teams in our new division are better than us..... ALL FREAKIN FIVE.

Do we really think we'll get to the point where we beat Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan and MSU in the same year... not to mention a pesky Northwestern program. Can't see it. Hell, not to mention Wisconsin and whomever else we get every year. Which at some point will be PSU and OSU.

One of the guys on the B10 network said we got the toughest draw and I can't disagree. Now, couple this with our fearless leaders non-conference schedule of death.... I just have a hard time seeing us beyond 4 wins every year. Perhaps the decades of losing that are getting to me, not sure.

People are making fun of Wisconsin, hate those bastards. But I can't help but look at them saying they're in a great spot. They beat OSU / PSU and the rest is a joke most years. There kicking our ass every year and they'll have no problem with with IN, IL and Purdue.... are you kidding me.

Sure, they lose some natural rivalries, but all those games with PSU, OSU will be night games nationally televised. If I was them, I'd be selling the hell out of this.

Somebody tell me I'm wrong? I'm just not feeling it....
 

Totally agree, all five other teams are better now and have better programs than the Gophers.
 

We should just give up and go to the Sun Belt.
 

I think your read is pretty accurate. But I think most fans want the rivalries regardless how tough the schedule is. That's what were seeing here and on the UW boards. People are talking about this tarnishing Alvarez's legacy.

Time will tell.
 

Think Loooong Term

Check out our record vs. Sparty the last 10 years. Frerentz won't coach forever. Nebraska will ebb and flow. See what has happened to Michigan. Pesky NU indeed, but we beat them last year, and should have beaten them many times in the past 10 years, but beat ourselves.

I agree that we got a lot tougher deal than others are suggesting, but let's play 'em, and reflect in 10 or 20 years.
 


badgergopher said:
I think your read is pretty accurate. But I think most fans want the rivalries regardless how tough the schedule is. That's what were seeing here and on the UW boards. People are talking about this tarnishing Alvarez's legacy.

Time will tell.
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I agree, I think that keeping rivalries intact is the most important thing for most fans. I want Minny, Iowa, and Wisky to all play each other every year.
 

It's a fair take. But unless we somehow ended up in a conference with Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Ball State, and Wyoming it was a problem we were sure to have.

OSU is the hands down cream of this conference. I'm pleased it's Bucky rather than us that have to play them every year. That's my take, anyway.
 

I have to agree. Wisconsin basically is now in the top three of their division. They match up well with the likes of Ohio State and PSU (most years). Yeah, Alvarez sold out the rivalries, but positioned the school to take it to the next level. IMHO. Maturi, he angled to keep as many rivalries as possible and in the process, ended up in a monster conference that makes it difficult to win.

Yeah, teams ebb and flow, but we have been stuck in neutral since the 60's. I hate saying well next year we might have it. I said this elsewhere, but the U needs to emphasize winning rivalry games. Not just be happy playing them.
 

If I were Mason I'd be extremely envious of Wisconsin. A guaranteed bowl every year. But for Brewster's sights are higher and this is just what he wants. He wants to build a program that is as good or better than those five. If he does that then we are sitting in a perfect spot with arguably the best two teams in the other conference. If we can do well in our conference we will have done so with a great SOS. We will be in a conference championship with a contender for a national championship. That's a big game. There is a payoff for doing well in a tough conference with quality wins.

This is Brewsters vision, not to pile up a bunch of mediocre wins and go to a bowl year after year, but to take a legitimate run at something bigger. I'm on board with that vision, and for that I think we're in the perfect spot.

Wisconsin can whine all they want because they can't back their way into a conference championship or a rose bowl, but they've got what they really want wether they admit it or not, and we got what we want.
 



Don't get me wrong, no matter what your division is, you'll need to beat good teams to accomplish something.

But given the state of our program, it just seems more difficult than ever to become a consistent program.

In the other division, you feel pretty good going against IU, Purdue and IL every year. Not that you would win them all, but most years you can compete big time. Now, with a great year you beat OSU or PSU or both and now you got some momentum.

Momentum is what builds programs and it just seems like even with a coaching change, momentum with Gopher football with be harder than ever to come by.

I'm also worried that Wisconsin may be on the brink of going even higher. I can see a scenario, that every 5 years there in a championship game. They won't be the favorite any year, but you can see it happening. Seems like the gap could get even larger.
 

Schnoodler said:
If I were Mason I'd be extremely envious of Wisconsin. A guaranteed bowl every year. But for Brewster's sights are higher and this is just what he wants. He wants to build a program that is as good or better than those five. If he does that then we are sitting in a perfect spot with arguably the best two teams in the other conference. If we can do well in our conference we will have done so with a great SOS. We will be in a conference championship with a contender for a national championship. That's a big game. There is a payoff for doing well in a tough conference with quality wins.

This is Brewsters vision, not to pile up a bunch of mediocre wins and go to a bowl year after year, but to take a legitimate run at something bigger. I'm on board with that vision, and for that I think we're in the perfect spot.

Wisconsin can whine all they want because they can't back their way into a conference championship or a rose bowl, but they've got what they really want wether they admit it or not, and we got what we want.
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See, I just view it differently. Wisconsin matches up perfectly with OSU and PSU. Did you watch that game with OSU last year? They dominated many aspects, and Wiscy has consistently beat PSU in the last decade. I just see a risk that they continue to rise with large, nationally publicized games while we struggle to win 3 division games a year.

Brewsters a tool, he can't even beat one freakin rival. He may have a vision, but it's getting thrown back in his face.

Look, it is what it is... and I'll be rooting all the way. But I've been reading posts all night on how we're in great shape and Wiscy got screwed.

I think our fanbase is kidding itself.... be careful what you ask for.
 

I don't know where to start here. The Gophers have had one of the worst runs in their programs history through the 90's and 2000's as far as where they finished in the Big Ten. This happens to be part of the criteria that was used to determine the divisions. You argue that all 5 teams are better than Minnesota right now, but by that same logic the only team that is "worse" is Indiana. There is only one team over the last twenty years or so that Minnesota has been definitively better than, so essentially you are upset about not having Indiana in the division.

The bottom line is that Minnesota used to beat Wisconsin and Iowa regularly and there's no reason for that not to happen again. Until that happens, who else is in the division does not matter. Minnesota can't be worse than their border rivals and have successful seasons.

The question in my mind is whether or not Minnesota would be better off (long term) switching divisions with Wisconsin. It would be attractive to play Illinois, Purdue, and Indiana every year. On the other side of the coin, to actually win the division the Gophers would have to go through PSU and tOSU. I would rather have Michigan and Nebraska as my hurdles if the goal is a conference title.
 

Jdogg0821 said:
See, I just view it differently. Wisconsin matches up perfectly with OSU and PSU. Did you watch that game with OSU last year? They dominated many aspects, and Wiscy has consistently beat PSU in the last decade. I just see a risk that they continue to rise with large, nationally publicized games while we struggle to win 3 division games a year.

Brewsters a tool, he can't even beat one freakin rival. He may have a vision, but it's getting thrown back in his face.

Look, it is what it is... and I'll be rooting all the way. But I've been reading posts all night on how we're in great shape and Wiscy got screwed.

I think our fanbase is kidding itself.... be careful what you ask for.
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You really have to allow for the growth in the program. It takes time. Any big wins up to now would have been nothing but luck, an inferior team beating a better team on that teams bad day. Our rivals have been pretty darn good, and we weren't, and aren't. But you'd have to be blind not to see what he's been building, and everythinkg he's been bringing together starts this year.

If he can't do it, there will be another coach who will give it a go. There is nothing inherent in Minnesota that suggests we can't be an elite program. Mediocrity is not a thing we need to settle for.
 




If we were to have a team that was of Big Ten Championship caliber, I would take our chances of beating NW, Michigan St., Michigan, Iowa, and Nebraska over beating only Ohio State and Penn State. Ohio State is the cream of the crop and has staying power, and I feel Penn State does also. Michigan and Nebraska have a name but they have seen bigger drop offs in the past then PSU and tOSU. Just my opinion.
 

I am totally fine with our situation honestly....we don't have to play Ohio State or Penn State in the '11 or '12, and I am pretty ok with that. I realize that will change down the road, but who knows what will happen by then...we might, just maybe, if we're lucky, get some breaks, the ball bounces our way...might be a good team by then.
 

Schnoodler said:
You really have to allow for the growth in the program. It takes time. Any big wins up to now would have been nothing but luck, an inferior team beating a better team on that teams bad day. Our rivals have been pretty darn good, and we weren't, and aren't. But you'd have to be blind not to see what he's been building, and everythinkg he's been bringing together starts this year.

If he can't do it, there will be another coach who will give it a go. There is nothing inherent in Minnesota that suggests we can't be an elite program. Mediocrity is not a thing we need to settle for.
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So please explain what Brewster is so clearly building? I see a guy who cannot keep a coaching staff together for consistency. When he does hire coaches they are guys who were canned from higher profile jobs. I also see the quality of recruiting classes declining and even the higher ranked earlier classes were filled with guys who never made it to campus. Of the athletes that did make it to campus they are still not of the caliber of athletes of the teams they are trying to gain ground on in the Big Ten. Then when you factor in that he has not shown the ability to out coach these programs he is lagging behind in talent, I don't see anything of substance being built and definitely not a program.
 

Keep the rivalries. Pretty much only OSU, PSU, Nebraska and Michigan are elite programs that are pretty much 9+ wins most years. Even Nebraska and Michigan have slipped in the very recent past for multiple seasons. It's all cyclical. Purdue, Illinois, Iowa, NW, Wisconsin have all won the Big 10 or played in a Rose Bowl in the past 15 years.

I'm not worried about who is good right now. It will be different every season.
 

GopherGod said:
So please explain what Brewster is so clearly building?
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Last years defense was the best Gopher defense since the Tyrone Carter years. Finally, a head coach that cares about defense. That is a good start for me. Now we need to get the offense going.

Brew has had a rough go of it so far but he is an incredibly hard worker and he is not a stupid guy. He can and will learn from his mistakes. If we give him a chance I think he will continue to improve the team. I am willing to give him that chance.

It is understandable if you are not willing to give him that chance. You could be right. We are going to find out sooner or later. But one thing we do know is that Brewster is not going to be fired until January at the earliest.

Until then I am exited to watch the Gophers the same as when Mason was coach and I wanted HIM fired. How about you, GG? Do you love Gopher football the way I do? Or is it just about being a horse's ass in GopherHole because you have nothing better to do with your time?
 

What the hell are some people talking about on here?! Buckyville is IMPLODING because of having to play OSU and PSU AND losing continuous rivalry games, and some of you want to SWITCH with them??? Think about what you're f'in saying for a moment!

Let's go through this in a realistic manner:

Michigan- Had some down years recently and hasn't yet shown a resurgence, meaning aside from the '07 fluke, we should for the moment be competitive with them.

Nebraska- Same thing as Michigan

Iowa- They're up and down, and don't forget that last year at Kinnick we had a very close game against the bowl champions

Michigan State- Haven't we beaten them the last two years in a row? I think we're always very competitive against them

Northwestern- Had bad luck with them in the last decade, but we beat them on their turf last year

I would much rather have all very competitive games than play two juggernauts and a bunch of teams you feel you should automatically win against. The constant competition CONDITIONS a team to be mentally and physically tough, so that you become used to playing tough teams and learn how to beat them, let alone preparing yourself to face one of those opposite-division juggernauts for the title!

Besides, you can never count out a team in a rivalry game, and look at us! We potentially have four with Nebraska!

But if some of you want to switch with Illinois or Wisconsin or whoever and go into the other division, be my guest. I think its f*ckin crazy, but be my guest.
 

No matter how you slice it, most of the teams in a B10 division are better than us right now. Things change though, right? And if you don't think they'll ever change, then I have to wonder why you're here.
 

I am not looking at it that way.

Sorry but we have to realise that the Gophers at this time are not a top level program in the Big Ten so sure everyone is going to be better than us but that doesnt me it will remain that way. I think the Gophers are in the division of flux. Michigan is trying to rebuild but as long as Rich Rod is there they will struggle. Michigan State to me is on the Gophers level in football maybe a bit better but we have played with them over the last several years. Northwestern same as MSU. Iowa is on an upswing right now but it wasnt long ago when they were not all that special. Nebraska is going to be in a new conference and is not far removed from being terrible. We have to make some improvement now if that is done we are going to be right there to make a step up in the quality of our program.
 

Tarver's Mustache Comb said:
No matter how you slice it, most of the teams in a B10 division are better than us right now. Things change though, right? And if you don't think they'll ever change, then I have to wonder why you're here.
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Or why any other divisional setup would be better. Negative nellies just amaze me.
 

neb-I'm not understanding this neb dominance? they are not ohio st and they aren't penn st. other than last year the last time I remember them dominating was the late 90's.

iowa-is always tough and other than the 55-0 thumping we always play them tough!

mich-im trying to understand how and why they are considered so much better than us at this time?

mich st-very similar to our program...we destroyed the last year and somehow they are a better program? not sure how that works?

northwestern-never do I look @ their program and think that's a loss on the schedule!

the other division:

tOSU-probably win that side 7-10 yrs. I'm very happy we won't be playing them every year.

penn st-probably win this side 3-10 yrs

wisky-probably will never be able to get passed psu or osu and that makes me smile

purdue-probably will put together a good team every few yrs but will run into psu and osu

illinois-i think they are comparable in a lot of ways to us, lots of talent but underachieve in the eyes of their fan base

indiana-i don't think they win any games in their division except maybe purdue!

in my opinion we would are way better off with what we were given I at least think in the future we can get through our div. I also think what happened to wisky, illinois, and purdue will also help our recruiting...i may be drunk but that's where I'm @!
 

GopherGod said:
So please explain what Brewster is so clearly building? I see a guy who cannot keep a coaching staff together for consistency. When he does hire coaches they are guys who were canned from higher profile jobs. I also see the quality of recruiting classes declining and even the higher ranked earlier classes were filled with guys who never made it to campus. Of the athletes that did make it to campus they are still not of the caliber of athletes of the teams they are trying to gain ground on in the Big Ten. Then when you factor in that he has not shown the ability to out coach these programs he is lagging behind in talent, I don't see anything of substance being built and definitely not a program.
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Most of what you say there is subjective. You make an interesting point about the coaches, though, which is based in fact. There are so many coaches -- what, a dozen or so -- that I can't keep them all straight. I didn't realize most had been canned from higher profile jobs. Just for my own edification, outside of Cosgrove, whom I know about, can you list all the coaches on the current staff who were canned from higher profile jobs?
 

just from a pure fan stand point having Nebraska, Michigan, Iowa and Wisconsin on the schedule every year is great. will provide a lot more interest overall than Illinois, Purdue and Indiana would.

looking at it from a competitive stand point and the current state of the gopher program this is not an easy go of it at all.
 

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