How good is Kentucky- the new Fab 5

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march madness

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Is Kentucky the new version of the Fab 5? Plus they have an excellent returning star in Patterson. Wall is arguably the best freshmen pt guard in some time. Cousins is a Dexter Pittman center with a motor. Patterson is very solid. Bledsoe is great also. They are loaded.

I'm not a big Calipari fan, but they are so loaded.
 

They're good, but I seriously doubt that they will be tested enough to win the tournament.
 

Kentucky is the most-overrated undefeated team in the past few years. Who have they beat? UConn and unranked UNC?

The SEC is on par with the Pac-10 this year.
 

I remember when the last time UK was rated this high.
2003
Went into the NCAA Tourney as the overall No 1 seed and got blasted by UAB in the 2nd game
 




march madness said:
Is Kentucky the new version of the Fab 5? Plus they have an excellent returning star in Patterson. Wall is arguably the best freshmen pt guard in some time. Cousins is a Dexter Pittman center with a motor. Patterson is very solid. Bledsoe is great also. They are loaded.

I'm not a big Calipari fan, but they are so loaded.
Click to expand...

Darius Miller is one of their starters and he struggles at best. He's definitely not a pro player, so no way you can call them the Fab 5. Wall, Patterson, and Cousins are their best 3. Bledsoe is good, but not great.
 

KyGopherfan said:
Darius Miller is one of their starters and he struggles at best. He's definitely not a pro player, so no way you can call them the Fab 5. Wall, Patterson, and Cousins are their best 3. Bledsoe is good, but not great.
Click to expand...

Bledsoe is a very, very good player. He should be a lottery pick in the 2011 draft (prediction he will play 2 years, one more after Wall leaves this year).
 

Bledsoe will be a first-round draft pick if he declares after this season. I'd say he's much better than good.

SEC is much better than the Pac 10 this season. No comparison. Pac 10 is historically bad this season (dreadful 9-24 in games vs. the other power conferences), but it'll bounce back.
 



I Think UK Has Fair Chance At 40-0

Final 4 likely, 2 or 3 L tops, probably 37 or 38 W.
 

scholarship rules

don't the one and dones eventually affect the number of scholarships a school gets?
 

They'll choke

Calipari's teams have a penchant for choking. I expect this team to do the same, especially considering how young they are. An experienced team with maybe not the same talent (but close to it) will hang around, keep the game close, then UK will choke late in the game. I'll say it happens in the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Agreed, a bit of hyperbole, the Pac-10 is horrific. However, the SEC isn't far behind.
Click to expand...

Ask Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri, Illinois, Michigan State, Ga Tech, etc how bad the SEC is. That's just laughable.


I don't know how this season is going to end but it has been fun. That's something that's really been missing the last 5-6 years. From playing in a tournament with an open bar, to John Wall's game in the Garden, to the 2000 wins, to the 1.5 Million dollars raised for Haitian Earthquake Relief-just a whole lot of fun this season.
 



The Truth said:
Ask Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri, Illinois, Michigan State, Ga Tech, etc how bad the SEC is. That's just laughable.


I don't know how this season is going to end but it has been fun. That's something that's really been missing the last 5-6 years. From playing in a tournament with an open bar, to John Wall's game in the Garden, to the 2000 wins, to the 1.5 Million dollars raised for Haitian Earthquake Relief-just a whole lot of fun this season.
Click to expand...

Last 4 years, sure. But UK was Top 5 rated team in 2004 (6 years) and 2005 (5 years) going 55-11 (83%) those 2 seasons.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Last 4 years, sure. But UK was Top 5 rated team in 2004 (6 years) and 2005 (5 years) going 55-11 (83%) those 2 seasons.
Click to expand...

I think what "The Truth " means is that in spite of those ratings, there was nothing
to show for it in the way of Final Fours at the end of the season.
That is what ALL teams strive for.
The Gophers are hoping to make the Tourney. For what reason ?
I don't they want to play a game or two and say " we've had enough, lets go home "
Of course teams want to be the last ones standing.
It makes it even more of a disappointment to be so good and come up short.
Those were years that UK really had a chance and they didn't make it.
I think that's what "THE TRUTH" meant. At least that's the way I read it.

As for the winning percentage.
They don't hang banners for winning percentage. They hang them for winning the big games.
A coach will be remembered more if he gets to 3 or 4 Final Fours before he will be remembered for a winning percentage. Even if his winning percentage is not as good as someone else who doesn't make it.
 

nuggett said:
I think what "The Truth " means is that in spite of those ratings, there was nothing
to show for it in the way of Final Fours at the end of the season.
That is what ALL teams strive for.
The Gophers are hoping to make the Tourney. For what reason ?
I don't they want to play a game or two and say " we've had enough, lets go home "
Of course teams want to be the last ones standing.
It makes it even more of a disappointment to be so good and come up short.
Those were years that UK really had a chance and they didn't make it.
I think that's what "THE TRUTH" meant. At least that's the way I read it.

As for the winning percentage.
They don't hang banners for winning percentage. They hang them for winning the big games.
A coach will be remembered more if he gets to 3 or 4 Final Fours before he will be remembered for a winning percentage. Even if his winning percentage is not as good as someone else who doesn't make it.
Click to expand...

If only FF count, then UCLA and UNC are the best teams ever. Then Duke and Kentucky 4th.

If only FF count, then only 13 seasons (of 70 total since NCAA started) matter at Kentucky.

Tubby Smith averages 2 W (in NCAA tourney) per NCAA appearance. Few coaches average more.
 

nuggett said:
I think what "The Truth " means is that in spite of those ratings, there was nothing
to show for it in the way of Final Fours at the end of the season.
That is what ALL teams strive for.
The Gophers are hoping to make the Tourney. For what reason ?
I don't they want to play a game or two and say " we've had enough, lets go home "
Of course teams want to be the last ones standing.
It makes it even more of a disappointment to be so good and come up short.
Those were years that UK really had a chance and they didn't make it.
I think that's what "THE TRUTH" meant. At least that's the way I read it.

As for the winning percentage.
They don't hang banners for winning percentage. They hang them for winning the big games.
A coach will be remembered more if he gets to 3 or 4 Final Fours before he will be remembered for a winning percentage. Even if his winning percentage is not as good as someone else who doesn't make it.
Click to expand...

So then Jim Calhoun (only 2 FF in 36 years as HC) or Jim Boeheim (only 3 FF in 30+ seasons) are failures then? Both are HOF coaches.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
So then Jim Calhoun (only 2 FF in 36 years as HC) or Jim Boeheim (only 3 FF in 30+ seasons) are failures then? Both are HOF coaches.
Click to expand...

I never said ANY of them were failures. Tubby included.

You will also find that MOST years Jim Calhoun and Jim Boeheim have ranked teams
making good runs in the tourn.
Tubby' lasts 2 seasons at UK ( to which The Truth was referring )
By years end Tubby had UK unranked, losing the first weekend of the tourney,
and had lost 25 gaems in those 2 years. He did that with a NUMBER 1 recruiting
class. Furthermore, it was not like there was a stack of great recruits headed to
by the time he left. There is no doubt that by Tubby's last 2 seasons and the 2
years that the drunk clown ( Billy ) coached, that UK was no longer in that small
group of teams that is ahead of the pack and considered Elite. They had fallen to
the middle of the SEC and were picking up most of their wins against cupcakes ot
the bottom dwellers of the SEC.

It is very easy to see why Tubby has a lot of Tourn wins.
Consider that the field starts with 64 teams. Unlike some of the previous coaches of UK
when they coached at a time when the Tourn was not as large. UK was usually a high seeded
team starting the Tourn. which means they would be playing against a lower rated team or
teams the 1st weekend. Games that should be won by better teams. Therefore, a coach
of a high seeded team is going to get the benefit of winning a couple of games to add to
the totals of Tourn wins.
 

How does a thread about comparing Kentucky to the Fab 5 end up being about Tubby Smith?
 

nuggett said:
got blasted by UAB in the 2nd game
Click to expand...

If by blasted you mean losing a game by one-point 76-75 in which the winning team scored the go-ahead bucket with 12 seconds left, then, yes, you are right, I suppose KY got blasted by UAB.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
If only FF count, then UCLA and UNC are the best teams ever. Then Duke and Kentucky 4th.

If only FF count, then only 13 seasons (of 70 total since NCAA started) matter at Kentucky.

Tubby Smith averages 2 W (in NCAA tourney) per NCAA appearance. Few coaches average more.
Click to expand...


The key word being IF

Regardless you can't win the Tourn without making the Final Four. You have ZERO chance.
Reagrdless of how good a coach Tubby is or isn't or how much you do or don't like him,
he has coached 20 years of Div 1 ball and only been to 1 Final Four. and never with
a team he put together himself. I am not trying to take any credit away from Tubby for
his Title, please understand that. Many people judge college b-ball success at years end
by who is left on that last weekend. Just like the NFL at this moment. It doesn't matter
how nice a season some NFL teams may have had, the only 2 teams that matter now are
the 2 in the Super Bowl.

I saw today that Alcorn State has lost 20 straight games.
Does that make you feel better about the Gophers losing 3 out of the last 4 ?

You can say that so and so didn't win either, but I don't believe it is wise
the measure one's success by the failure of others.
 

nuggett said:
You will also find that MOST years Jim Calhoun and Jim Boeheim have ranked teamsmaking good runs in the tourn.
Click to expand...

You realize that Jim Boeheim coached in the NIT in 2002, 2007, and 2008, right? And, that he got knocked out in the NCAA FIRST ROUND in 2005 and 2006, right?

You realize that Jim Calhoun coached in the NIT in 2001 and made NO postseason whatsoever in 2007, right? And, that Calhoun got knocked of the NCAA FIRST ROUND in 2008? And, that he lost in the NCAA SECOND ROUND in 2000 and 2005?

EVERY program has ups and downs, including Boeheims and Calhouns. It isn't that hard to understand. Tubby NEVER missed the tourney at KY. Ever. Never lost a FIRST ROUND game. Made six Sweet 16s and four Elite 8s. Won a National Title. Not bad.
 

tjgopher said:
You realize that Jim Boeheim coached in the NIT in 2002, 2007, and 2008, right? And, that he got knocked out in the NCAA FIRST ROUND in 2005 and 2006, right?

You realize that Jim Calhoun coached in the NIT in 2001 and made NO postseason whatsoever in 2007, right? And, that Calhoun got knocked of the NCAA FIRST ROUND in 2008? And, that he lost in the NCAA SECOND ROUND in 2000 and 2005?

EVERY program has ups and downs, including Boeheims and Calhouns. It isn't that hard to understand. Tubby NEVER missed the tourney at KY. Ever. Never lost a FIRST ROUND game. Made six Sweet 16s and four Elite 8s. Won a National Title. Not bad.
Click to expand...

Of course I realize that Boeheim and Calhoum had some bad years.
You are correct, all coaches do.
I think the difference for UK is this.
If Tubby had some hot talent headed to UK near the ned of his time there
things may have been different. However, during those last 2 seasons, there
were no top recruits looking at UK. He had been talking to Patterson but
even Patterson himself said he never commmited verbally to play for UK.
The 2 years during Billy showed that Patterson himself would not have been enough. More top recruits were needed. There was a time when it
appeared that the top players were no longer picking UK. I think this
had to do with Tubby's playing style. He is a defense minded coach and
that is where he puts most of his efforts. Top high school prospects that
have a shot at the NBA want to go to schools where they are allowed to
show off their offensive skills for the next level.
Don't misunderstand me, Tubby is a good coach. People do change however. Bobby Knight is no longer the coach he once was. Denny Crumb
is another. I don't know if the passion gets lost or what the answer is but
during Tubby's final 2 seasons at UK it appeared that the program was headed in the wrong direction. Like I mentoned elsewhere, those final
2 years of Tubby's tenure at UK were played with his best recruiting class
ever. I think the feeling was that if he was having that much trouble with
that caliber of players then it could only get worse when the recruiting went down.
 

EVERY program has ups and downs, including Boeheims and Calhouns. It isn't that hard to understand. Tubby NEVER missed the tourney at KY. Ever. Never lost a FIRST ROUND game. Made six Sweet 16s and four Elite 8s. Won a National Title. Not bad.[/QUOTE]

Like I mentioned to FOT, UK normally enters the Tourn as a No 1 or 2 seed
Therefore they are playing a 16 or 15 in round 1. A team seeded that high
playing a 16 or 15 should win. As we both know, a 1 seed has never lost to a 16 seed so I don't know that Tubby did anything exceptional there, only what all No 1 seeds do.
One game I DO remember was 2003. UK entered the Tourn. as the overall No 1 seed. In the 2nd game against UAB, UAB started out very hot and
Tubby would NOT call a time out to stem the tide. By the time the 1st TV
time out arrived, UAB was ahead by almost 20 points. UK was never able to recover. Games like that happen is guess.
It was more than just the NCAA Tourn. By Tubby's final 2 years at UK they
were getting most of their wins against teams like High Point and Lipscumb. Going against top 20 schools was another story. While always
competitive, ( a trademark of Tubby coached teams ) they always seem to
come up short when a big game was on the line.
As mentioned. I think Tubby is a good coach and a very wonderful person.
Great role model and a man of character. I just don't know if he had the passion anymore to run a program that is a pressure cooker like UK.
Some sports franchises are tougher than others and the demand is higher
than others. Because of their history, UK basketball is one of those places.
 

Sorry, One last thing about this.
Pardon me for being long winded ( or fingers )
What I am trying to get across with the above posts are that while all teams
do have down times, UK being no exception, it was the forecast of the near future
not being any better. That is why many fans became disgruntled. It looked like UK
had fallen into a rut that only a coaching change would bring an end to.
 

nuggett said:
Sorry, One last thing about this.
Pardon me for being long winded ( or fingers )
What I am trying to get across with the above posts are that while all teams
do have down times, UK being no exception, it was the forecast of the near future
not being any better. That is why many fans became disgruntled. It looked like UK
had fallen into a rut that only a coaching change would bring an end to.
Click to expand...

How about USC? It was a great game wasn't it? This is the last year that you can do this. Next year, you will be another Florida. Then, you will run Calamari out of town and get hit by sanctions for this year. Tubby cannot win big? Are you 12 or 13 years old who was too small to remember that Tubby's team at UGA was the only team in America that gave that UK team the most problem in 1996. Stop this bul$it and go back to your own boar and find out why you lost last night.
 

I believe I called that they were overrated yesterday before the South Carolina loss :)
 

You are a small and bitter person. You have made countless comments about the fans at Kentucky, the coach, the players that lead me to believe you have a lot of anger in your life you don't know how to deal with properly. The irony of it is that you act like which you claim to abhor. Perhaps you should take some notes from a gentleman of class like Coach Smith and deal with things in a more productive manner. Coach Smith is a man who called into the telethon and donated his hard earned money and cheered on his former team. I'm sure he has his own regrets and issues over his time at Kentucky but that doesn't stop him for still holding a love for the school, the community and the Commonwealth itself.

If you're so obsessed with a man or a group of people that you ignore the good things that they do you have lost all perspective in your life.
 

The Truth said:
You are a small and bitter person. You have made countless comments about the fans at Kentucky, the coach, the players that lead me to believe you have a lot of anger in your life you don't know how to deal with properly. The irony of it is that you act like which you claim to abhor. Perhaps you should take some notes from a gentleman of class like Coach Smith and deal with things in a more productive manner. Coach Smith is a man who called into the telethon and donated his hard earned money and cheered on his former team. I'm sure he has his own regrets and issues over his time at Kentucky but that doesn't stop him for still holding a love for the school, the community and the Commonwealth itself.

If you're so obsessed with a man or a group of people that you ignore the good things that they do you have lost all perspective in your life.
Click to expand...

I lived in the South for a long time. I know how the Southern mentality is for the most part. I met so many nice people there who helped me be who I am. I have no anger toward anyone but those who discriminate people based on their skin color or nationality. When you or other Uk fans come here to stir things against Tubby, I get really upset. You guys need to let it go. Learn from Tubby and be a nice person. I have said many times in my replies to your posts that it is just a game. This is something that you and your friends don't understand. Should Duke fan start the same movement against coach K since they haven't been on the top for a while? No, becasue they have better class than you and your friends. In one of these posts that I read yesterday, someone mentioned that Tubby won NC with Pitino's players. Man, I wonder who gave them this idea???? Please stop your hate for Tubby and move on.
 

nuggett said:
EVERY program has ups and downs, including Boeheims and Calhouns. It isn't that hard to understand. Tubby NEVER missed the tourney at KY. Ever. Never lost a FIRST ROUND game. Made six Sweet 16s and four Elite 8s. Won a National Title. Not bad.
Click to expand...

Like I mentioned to FOT, UK normally enters the Tourn as a No 1 or 2 seed
Therefore they are playing a 16 or 15 in round 1. A team seeded that high
playing a 16 or 15 should win. As we both know, a 1 seed has never lost to a 16 seed so I don't know that Tubby did anything exceptional there, only what all No 1 seeds do.
One game I DO remember was 2003. UK entered the Tourn. as the overall No 1 seed. In the 2nd game against UAB, UAB started out very hot and
Tubby would NOT call a time out to stem the tide. By the time the 1st TV
time out arrived, UAB was ahead by almost 20 points. UK was never able to recover. Games like that happen is guess.
It was more than just the NCAA Tourn. By Tubby's final 2 years at UK they
were getting most of their wins against teams like High Point and Lipscumb. Going against top 20 schools was another story. While always
competitive, ( a trademark of Tubby coached teams ) they always seem to
come up short when a big game was on the line.
As mentioned. I think Tubby is a good coach and a very wonderful person.
Great role model and a man of character. I just don't know if he had the passion anymore to run a program that is a pressure cooker like UK.
Some sports franchises are tougher than others and the demand is higher
than others. Because of their history, UK basketball is one of those places.[/QUOTE]

http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/gamencaa.html 15 times, UK seeded 1 or 2. 11 times, UK seeded 3 to 12.
 

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