How close are we?

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How close are we to knowing how to win? To quote/ paraphrase Brewster and others, you want the team to move from losing big to losing small to winning small, to winning big.

Looks like we've learned to lose small and sometimes win small. Texas Tech has been in bigger games lately and seemed to know how to win. How close are we to turning that corner? I think we are ready to cross that line this upcoming season. Thoughts?
 

I have been trying to think of a good answer for this and can't. I would say we are not that close at this time. We will have turned a corner when we can beat a good team and then can come back and win the following week. A fluke win is one thing but to win against a good team and then be focused enough to come back and win another game especially in the Big Ten would be a turning point.
 

I think the o-line and d-line wi be strengths next year. I think this will translate to more wins. Will the D be good enough at all three levels? Will special teams be better than our opponent week in and week out?
 

I think they're good enough to win a handful of games here and there. I just don't see them being able to make a Rose Bowl run until "That Guy" emerges. By "That Guy", I mean a player that can almost win games on his own.
 

We're not that far off.
We don't yet have a true impact player that can take over a game.
We don't have the systems down yet to the point where they can scheme around the deficiency of an impact player.

I think Nelson can be that player someday. To me, Edwards could be that player at RB eventually. On D, Hageman could emerge next year to be that player.

I think the young players on this team will be unconscious in their execution of the coaching schemes by the time they are here for 3-4 years(next year and year after).

2014 IMO we win 8-10.
Next year will be all about Nelson and the running game being able to take over games. Our D is my greatest source of optimism, we have players tackling and covering passes for the first time in a LONG time.
 


Gophs did
Good enough to keep Jerry K
&
Not good enough to lose Jerry K.
 

We are just over 2 years into Coach Kill's tenure, and if there is anyone who thinks the culture has not changed, step up now. The Coach has taken I out of the equation. If you are going to play you are going to dedicate you mind and body to the team. You will not quit. We may get beat, but we will not quit. We may not be big enough, fast enough yet, but that is what weights and conditioning are all about. How many players do you think are taking a week or month off? Does anyone think at this point its optional? I have written this before, but the cold steel in January, February, March, April is where the power to run the ball comes from. There is no magic, no recruit, no secret design that will get it done. No its every guy on offense, in the weight room. If you are going to blow holes against Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, you do the work. You need to know that when that 3 and 2 comes up, you can beat the man in front of you.
 

husker70 said:
We are just over 2 years into Coach Kill's tenure, and if there is anyone who thinks the culture has not changed, step up now. The Coach has taken I out of the equation. If you are going to play you are going to dedicate you mind and body to the team. You will not quit. We may get beat, but we will not quit. We may not be big enough, fast enough yet, but that is what weights and conditioning are all about. How many players do you think are taking a week or month off? Does anyone think at this point its optional? I have written this before, but the cold steel in January, February, March, April is where the power to run the ball comes from. There is no magic, no recruit, no secret design that will get it done. No its every guy on offense, in the weight room. If you are going to blow holes against Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, you do the work. You need to know that when that 3 and 2 comes up, you can beat the man in front of you.
Click to expand...

I like what you are saying. It still seems to me that we are at the lose small, win small against match up opponents. I do see what you are saying and that the players are buying in wholesale. I really think we can move up to win big, and win small vs some of the big boys on any given Saturday.
 

Not sure how much I care about culture I care about wins. I know what your saying but if the culture with the program has changed why are we seeing the same type of mistakes we had in the program under the last coaching staff. The culture doesnt concern me as much as the way the team plays and if it wins or loses. The Gophers need to get better to win and some of that comes through experience and development which takes place over time. I get that and wont argue the fact. That being said we are still seeing the same mental mistakes over and over again that plagued many of Brewsters teams that we so need to change. If culture is changing it not only needs to change off the field it needs to change on it as well. Until it actually changes on the field I dont really care about the rest. College athletes get scholarships to earn an education and work their hardest to win football games and everything that that includes. That to me isn't something that should be applauded it should be expected if a player is not living up to that they shouldnt be playing Big Ten football.
 



Everybody else is recruiting and lifting weights. Somehow (and I have no idea how to accomplish this), the Gophers have to improve enough to start leap-frogging other teams and moving ahead of them in the standings.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this "recruit 2* and 3* kids and coach them up" mentality. If you want to be better than other teams, you have to have better players. Somehow, someway, Kill & Co. need to recruit better athletes.
To win the battles on the field, you have to win some of the recruiting battles.
 

husker70 said:
We are just over 2 years into Coach Kill's tenure, and if there is anyone who thinks the culture has not changed, step up now. The Coach has taken I out of the equation. If you are going to play you are going to dedicate you mind and body to the team. You will not quit. We may get beat, but we will not quit. We may not be big enough, fast enough yet, but that is what weights and conditioning are all about. How many players do you think are taking a week or month off? Does anyone think at this point its optional? I have written this before, but the cold steel in January, February, March, April is where the power to run the ball comes from. There is no magic, no recruit, no secret design that will get it done. No its every guy on offense, in the weight room. If you are going to blow holes against Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, you do the work. You need to know that when that 3 and 2 comes up, you can beat the man in front of you.
Click to expand...

I think a big component is culture and work ethic and hitting the weights but I think in the end it comes down to talent and gameday coaching. I don't know whether there is as much variability as everyone makes between the training schedules from Mason to Brewster to Kill, that there is some enormous difference between S&C coaches, etc. Naturally there was probably some dropoff at the end of Brewster's tenure because he was fired midseason and the Gophers didn't go to a bowl, so the players had little direction for some time.

Every year, but especially when a new staff comes on, it seems like everyone wants to say "wow, the guys are working so much harder, getting so much stronger, and putting on more weight." Yet it's unclear how that really translates to the field. To wit, earlier this year everyone was so impressed with the sheer poundage the linemen had put on - well, seeing how many load bearing injuries they sustained, maybe that was not such a good thing even if the weight was all muscle.

And as the poster above note, fans of virtually every other team in the country are saying the same thing. Have you every seen anyone post (about the Gophers or any other team), "our players just aren't getting bigger, faster or stronger this year, and I think they're actually working out less?" Sure, the Gophers can try to outwork everyone in the offseason, but I think the mental benefit that produces probably translates more to the field than being able to bench a few more pounds.
 

The biggest difference is that we have been sending RS Fr, and Sophs out to battle 4th and 5th yr srs. Even at the same ht and wt. the kid won't (usually) compete with the older guy, Soon we will be able to compete on an even scale with the big boysl
 

There seem to be two solutions offered for improving UM football by contributors here. 1. Win more games. 2. Recruit better athletes. To accomplish #1, we need to succeed with #2. And vice versa. A delightful circular argument.
 



FanSinceTheFifties said:
There seem to be two solutions offered for improving UM football by contributors here. 1. Win more games. 2. Recruit better athletes. To accomplish #1, we need to succeed with #2. And vice versa. A delightful circular argument.
Click to expand...
Not really you can get players to max out their abilities with good coaching and motivation. When you do that you you play above the perception of your talent level. You then attract better athletes, you then get them to max out their abilities, and win more. Repeat this cycle a few times and you start to build a program. It's not a quick fix but the way to build a proper program.
 

nsmike said:
Not really you can get players to max out their abilities with good coaching and motivation. When you do that you you play above the perception of your talent level. You then attract better athletes, you then get them to max out their abilities, and win more. Repeat this cycle a few times and you start to build a program. It's not a quick fix but the way to build a proper program.
Click to expand...

+1 Nice summary of what needs to be done. Now if more fans would realize that all of this requires time and patience, we might be able to move on to some more useful and interesting conversations. So thanks for your very simple simple but very helpful answer to that age old question what comes first, the chicken or egg.
 

The moment of truth will be Year Four of Kill's tenure. The bare cupboard that Kill inherited will be fully stocked with his recruits who'd bought into the system.

I think they've made good strides this year over last. The TT game could've easily go the Gophers way barring a couple of bad penalties and miscues.

With fifteen extra practices, what was prognosticated to be a blow out turned out to be a fairly close game.
 

Each and every player must be committed to winning each day. Go the exta mile, make the play. Its being first in the weight room last to leave film study, 3. The Coach wants you benching 250 is 25 times, can you reach 30,35? Each player must be the example not only in the class room but also in conditioning. When you are running 40's are you first in your group? Do you ask a trainer or conditioning coach if he could time you? If you are in the offensive line, can you make time and make a difference in being in your stance till the candence reaches, explode. And do 6 players come off the ball as one. Do you as a guard, work on refining your footwork to be quicker, tighter on a pull. Tackles how do you pin an end playing wide? What's your move? If you are a reciever, how precise are your patterns? Quick to the cut, quick out of the cut. Will you be able to separate early? Have you asked for all the film of Eric Decker? What have you done today, to make the team better?
 

At the season's halfway point, I thought we looked pretty good, but after the second half, I'm not so sure. I'm guessing--stress guessing--that we're further away than we'd like to be.

I get--and can somewhat appreciate--all the "change in culture" talk, but the hardest-working pony in the world isn't going to come close to winning the Kentucky Derby. We still need impact players, especially on offense.

I thought Kill got more erratic as the season wore on (and that didn't have anything to do with his seizures) and I agree that Season 4 is when we'll be able to make a more accurate assessment of his coaching abilities.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Everybody else is recruiting and lifting weights. Somehow (and I have no idea how to accomplish this), the Gophers have to improve enough to start leap-frogging other teams and moving ahead of them in the standings.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this "recruit 2* and 3* kids and coach them up" mentality. If you want to be better than other teams, you have to have better players. Somehow, someway, Kill & Co. need to recruit better athletes.
To win the battles on the field, you have to win some of the recruiting battles.
Click to expand...

Agree with getting better recruits, we have been crappy for so long, I think we need wins for better recruits
 

Catechol said:
I think a big component is culture and work ethic and hitting the weights but I think in the end it comes down to talent and gameday coaching. I don't know whether there is as much variability as everyone makes between the training schedules from Mason to Brewster to Kill, that there is some enormous difference between S&C coaches, etc. Naturally there was probably some dropoff at the end of Brewster's tenure because he was fired midseason and the Gophers didn't go to a bowl, so the players had little direction for some time.


Every year, but especially when a new staff comes on, it seems like everyone wants to say "wow, the guys are working so much harder, getting so much stronger, and putting on more weight." Yet it's unclear how that really translates to the field. To wit, earlier this year everyone was so impressed with the sheer poundage the linemen had put on - well, seeing how many load bearing injuries they sustained, maybe that was not such a good thing even if the weight was all muscle.

And as the poster above note, fans of virtually every other team in the country are saying the same thing. Have you every seen anyone post (about the Gophers or any other team), "our players just aren't getting bigger, faster or stronger this year, and I think they're actually working out less?" Sure, the Gophers can try to outwork everyone in the offseason, but I think the mental benefit that produces probably translates more to the field than being able to bench a few more pounds.
Click to expand...

Soooo your saying that the team works out too much? You have no idea what their training program looks like. It's not like we are doing different things from everyone else in the country. Strength coach knows what he is doing and he is one of the best in the business...
 

Catechol said:
I think a big component is culture and work ethic and hitting the weights but I think in the end it comes down to talent and gameday coaching. I don't know whether there is as much variability as everyone makes between the training schedules from Mason to Brewster to Kill, that there is some enormous difference between S&C coaches, etc. Naturally there was probably some dropoff at the end of Brewster's tenure because he was fired midseason and the Gophers didn't go to a bowl, so the players had little direction for some time.

Every year, but especially when a new staff comes on, it seems like everyone wants to say "wow, the guys are working so much harder, getting so much stronger, and putting on more weight." Yet it's unclear how that really translates to the field. To wit, earlier this year everyone was so impressed with the sheer poundage the linemen had put on - well, seeing how many load bearing injuries they sustained, maybe that was not such a good thing even if the weight was all muscle.

And as the poster above note, fans of virtually every other team in the country are saying the same thing. Have you every seen anyone post (about the Gophers or any other team), "our players just aren't getting bigger, faster or stronger this year, and I think they're actually working out less?" Sure, the Gophers can try to outwork everyone in the offseason, but I think the mental benefit that produces probably translates more to the field than being able to bench a few more pounds.
Click to expand...

Agree with pretty much everything you write there. Kill and his staff have a plan which is more than could be said for Brewster during some of his tenure but this idea that we are doing things different/better than everyone else is just foolish. In the next couple years we will find out if Kill's systems are good enough to beat the other schools in the conference and if he really can get away with bringing in lower talent on paper than the teams he is competing against.
 

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