Honest Question Concerning Tubby...

[GopherHomer]

Also being in his third year with Gophers, and considering the bloodlust on the football board for Brewster's head, what sort of progress are we expecting from Tubby going forward? I know the track records of the two coaches are not fair to compare, but I'm starting to sense that coach Smith would start feeling some heat this year if we don't make the tourny if his name wasn't Tubby. I'm all for Brewster getting five years to prove himself, so obviously I'm willing to extend Tubby the same gesture. But, in my mind when he was hired, I had this year pegged as the year we would see a rather large jump...leading us to the Sweet 16. I know we've been shortanded, but I'm disappointed in the development of the guys Tubby recruited. I guess what I'm asking is what would have to happen this year to qualify as the sort of disappointment that would start putting some pressure on Tubby? Or does he have a lifetime pass because of his track record? The basketball program here is not hamstrung with a lot of the disadvantages that the football program deals with, so I don't think we should be satisfied with mediocrity.

 

[Gophers_are_Golden]

Also being in his third year with Gophers, and considering the bloodlust on the football board for Brewster's head, what sort of progress are we expecting from Tubby going forward? I know the track records of the two coaches are not fair to compare, but I'm starting to sense that coach Smith would start feeling some heat this year if we don't make the tourny if his name wasn't Tubby. I'm all for Brewster getting five years to prove himself, so obviously I'm willing to extend Tubby the same gesture. But, in my mind when he was hired, I had this year pegged as the year we would see a rather large jump...leading us to the Sweet 16. I know we've been shortanded, but I'm disappointed in the development of the guys Tubby recruited. I guess what I'm asking is what would have to happen this year to qualify as the sort of disappointment that would start putting some pressure on Tubby? Or does he have a lifetime pass because of his track record? The basketball program here is not hamstrung with a lot of the disadvantages that the football program deals with, so I don't think we should be satisfied with mediocrity.

Tubby Smith has completely turned our program around from what is was just three years ago. In Tubby's first year as coach, we went from a 9-21 team to a 20-14 team. He improved again last year with a 22-11 record and an NCAA tourney bid. This years team is even better than last years team, we just had a bad stretch of games like all teams eventually will. I don't see why people think our season is over because we lost three close games to quality teams early in the season. We played three games in four days in Anaheim, and then had to travel across the county again to play at Miami. Once we get back to the Barn for a while and have time to work on our weaknesses, I think this team will be fine. Getting rid of Tubby would be would be the worst decision this program could make, and I see no way this would ever happen. I am even hoping that Saul Smith takes over as head coach when Tubby retires.

 

[beowulftom]

A fair question. I don't think any coach has lifetime pass anymore. But Tubby is far away from from feeling the heat. I think he has done an incredible job and we are watching a team that continues improving. There seems to be some meme out there suggesting the team has leveled off or is getting worse. I really believe that isn't true.

Projecting an NIT bid for this team is little premature. It's early in the season and this team, more than most, could improve dramatically by years end(with the potential addition of two true power forwards on a team that has none)
I do think it's fair to ask what the expectations of Tubby's team should be. He came here a few years ago with the program in shambles. He's rebuilt it substantially. I think all of us are waiting for that "leap" forward where we challenge for the Big Ten title every year and are a lock to make the tourney.

Two years from now when every player on the roster will have been recruited by Tubby, I think it's fair then to say sweet 16 or something needs to change.

 

[Art Vandelay]

This is the main reason Tubby took the job here in Minnesota. There is no pressure to win. He can recruit players of questionable character and be an NCAA bubble team that slips into the tournament once every couple years and people will still think he walks on water. I don't blame him one bit. It's a perfect gig as one with his acumen rides off into retirement.

 

[howeda7]

He would start feeling some heat in March 2011 if we missed both of the next two tournaments. It wouldn't be intense until 2012 though. Contrary to Art's statement, he didn't come here to 'coast'.

 

[Mulligan]

GopherHole is an indicator, but it's pretty delusional to think GHers are actually going to decide the fate of a coach. I don't think we're like canaries in a coal mine; more like sea gulls over a landfill. Lot of squawking, fighting with each other; and pecking away.

 

[chi-town gopher]

This is the main reason Tubby took the job here in Minnesota. There is no pressure to win. He can recruit players of questionable character and be an NCAA bubble team that slips into the tournament once every couple years and people will still think he walks on water. I don't blame him one bit. It's a perfect gig as one with his acumen rides off into retirement.

I don't completely disagree with your take on the job itself, but don't act like he is a complacent coach. The team has improved significantly every year he has been here, and as usual you are using negativity to rile up people on a message board. They went from 9 to 20 to 22 wins, and they haven't played a big 10 game yet this year. The team has improved every year he has been here and you can't judge this season until it is over, so just relax.

 

[Section201]

LOL

GopherHole is an indicator, but it's pretty delusional to think GHers are actually going to decide the fate of a coach. I don't think we're like canaries in a coal mine; more like sea gulls over a landfill. Lot of squawking, fighting with each other; and pecking away.

Great line... more like sea gulls over a landfill

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

This is the main reason Tubby took the job here in Minnesota. There is no pressure to win. He can recruit players of questionable character and be an NCAA bubble team that slips into the tournament once every couple years and people will still think he walks on water. I don't blame him one bit. It's a perfect gig as one with his acumen rides off into retirement.

What total BS.

You have NO clue.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Neither do you.

Tell me which part of my original post isn't true? Like I said, I'm not ripping Tubby, I'm just stating the facts. I don't blame him at all. Coaching here a is a great gig for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[eker0016]

What total BS.

You have NO clue.

I love Seinfeld, but Art sounds a lot more like Pat Reusse than an architect. Don't be bothered by his negativity. He tries to spin it as realism, but it isnt.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Neither do you.

Tell me which part of my original post isn't true? Like I said, I'm not ripping Tubby, I'm just stating the facts. I don't blame him at all. Coaching here a is a great gig for the reasons mentioned above.

U R wrong. Tubby didn't take the Gopher job to coast BUT RATHER to excel. And he will do that.

 

[Rick Mons]

GopherHole is an indicator, but it's pretty delusional to think GHers are actually going to decide the fate of a coach. I don't think we're like canaries in a coal mine; more like sea gulls over a landfill. Lot of squawking, fighting with each other; and pecking away.

Great analogy! +1

 

[MRJ]

Neither do you.

Tell me which part of my original post isn't true? Like I said, I'm not ripping Tubby, I'm just stating the facts. I don't blame him at all. Coaching here a is a great gig for the reasons mentioned above.

Well, let's see, you insinuated that he took the job so he wouldn't have to work hard because there wouldn't be any expectations, he could recruit any old joker off the street and be okay, and that he really just wanted this job so he could coast along. Yeah, I'm sure that's EXACTLY what Tubby was thinking when he took this job.

Anymore wisdom coming?

 

[sarahsparrow]

Vandelay takes a cheap shot, then turns around as if he is innocent and unknowing. You want to win at MN, you gotta get players. How bad do you think basketball players want to "winter over" in "da fa noth"? You don't get the players, you don't win.

Some so called fans will reset the bar for EVERY standard. Gives them a means of continually skewering and criticizing both players and coaches.

Vandelay is happy when he can cheap shot a coach or player and pretend he is defending himself after an unknowing pretend truthful appraisal.

"Fans" like him will only be dissatisfied if Tubby keeps improving his teams and keeps winning.

Program advances are not steady steps. I don't think this team has fallen off from last season, but it may not be better than last seasons. We cannot control the quality of teams our opponents field each season, and sometimes, a good team can come out on the short end of games when they are missing a key component either in consistent scoring ability or leadership. This may be the type of year we will have, but look out on the floor and players are organized, and defending well. Clearly not the situation before Tubby arrived.

 

[go 31]

Tubby's teams are at or above the Haskins standard and with ethical standards. What more can be expected? Shut up Art.

 

[gopherphan]

People still need to realize that Tubby's first set guys are just now juniors. theyre all still maturing and improving, and i think the benefits of having a good recruiting program are only beginning to pay benefits. the kind of benefits that multiply themselves once they come to fruition

 

[Art Vandelay]

This is the main reason Tubby took the job here in Minnesota. There is no pressure to win. He can recruit players of questionable character and be an NCAA bubble team that slips into the tournament once every couple years and people will still think he walks on water. I don't blame him one bit. It's a perfect gig as one with his acumen rides off into retirement.

OK, let's break down my original post.

1) "This is the main reason Tubby took the job here in Minnesota. There is no pressure to win."

No question the pressure to win at UK got to Tubby and he no longer wanted to deal with the unrealistic expectations. Here at Minnesota, no pressure at all. Not my opinion, just a FACT.

2) "He can recruit players of questionable character and be an NCAA bubble team that slips into the tournament once every couple years and people will still think he walks on water."

This really needs no explanation. FACT.

Again, I don't blame Tubby at all for coming here. It's a great gig. I agree, this program is miles ahead of where they were under Monson 3-4 years ago. Don't kill the messenger folks.

 

[gopherphan]

OK, let's break down my original post.

1) "This is the main reason Tubby took the job here in Minnesota. There is no pressure to win."

No question the pressure to win at UK got to Tubby and he no longer wanted to deal with the unrealistic expectations. Here at Minnesota, no pressure at all. Not my opinion, just a FACT.

2) "He can recruit players of questionable character and be an NCAA bubble team that slips into the tournament once every couple years and people will still think he walks on water."

This really needs no explanation. FACT.

Again, I don't blame Tubby at all for coming here. It's a great gig. I agree, this program is miles ahead of where they were under Monson 3-4 years ago. Don't kill the messenger folks.

Those aren't facts. Those are still just your opinions. FACT

 

[Art Vandelay]

Please, show me what are not facts. Please.

 

[chi-town gopher]

OK, let's break down my original post.

1) "This is the main reason Tubby took the job here in Minnesota. There is no pressure to win."

No question the pressure to win at UK got to Tubby and he no longer wanted to deal with the unrealistic expectations. Here at Minnesota, no pressure at all. Not my opinion, just a FACT.

2) "He can recruit players of questionable character and be an NCAA bubble team that slips into the tournament once every couple years and people will still think he walks on water."

This really needs no explanation. FACT.

Again, I don't blame Tubby at all for coming here. It's a great gig. I agree, this program is miles ahead of where they were under Monson 3-4 years ago. Don't kill the messenger folks.

There is obviously some pressure to win, otherwise Dan Monson would still be the coach. Is there as much pressure as there is at UK? No, but there is pressure to win here so your first point is not a fact.

As to your second point, there are very few programs in the country that won't recruit and keep players of questionable character. He did it at UK and UK is doing it without him there so I don't see why that would be some big motivating factor for coming here. As far as walking on water for slipping in and out of the tournament, I'm not sure I agree. If he makes the tournament 3 out of 5 years but gets to the sweet 16 and beyond (Like Clem w/o any scandals) I think the fans will be on board. After 4 or 5 years people will start grumbling if he doesn't get past the first round, and I think that is a pretty fair/realistic way to treat a coach like Tubby considering where the program was when he took over.

 

[MRJ]

Hate to break it to ya Art, but there is pressure to win at EVERY major school around the country. Are there are varying degrees of that pressure? You bet. But to suggest there is no pressure at all to win at Minnesota is ludicrous. Everyone here expects Tubby and the team to be good. And if he ends up doing a crappy job, he'll be called out. The recruiting stuff you brought up regarding being able to recruit kids with "questionable character" as one of his motivations for coming here is equally ludicrous.

And unless you know Tubby yourself, you really don't have any idea what all went into his decision. Was the Kentucky angle tiresome for him? I'd be willing to bet it was. But as to what else drew him to Minnesota, I have no idea, and quite frankly, neither do you. Everything you stated as "fact" is actually nothing else than your singular "opinion."

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Hate to break it to ya Art, but there is pressure to win at EVERY major school around the country. Are there are varying degrees of that pressure? You bet. But to suggest there is no pressure at all to win at Minnesota is ludicrous. Everyone here expects Tubby and the team to be good. And if he ends up doing a crappy job, he'll be called out. The recruiting stuff you brought up regarding being able to recruit kids with "questionable character" as one of his motivations for coming here is equally ludicrous.

And unless you know Tubby yourself, you really don't have any idea what all went into his decision. Was the Kentucky angle tiresome for him? I'd be willing to bet it was. But as to what else drew him to Minnesota, I have no idea, and quite frankly, neither do you. Everything you stated as "fact" is actually nothing else than your singular "opinion."

One factor in his interest in Minnesota was that both Dwane Casey and Clem Haskins highly recommended the job and the area to Tubby and his family.

 

[cclaufer]

People still need to realize that Tubby's first set guys are just now juniors. theyre all still maturing and improving, and i think the benefits of having a good recruiting program are only beginning to pay benefits. the kind of benefits that multiply themselves once they come to fruition

I hate to correct this post, since its one of the ones that isn't written by an someone trying to disguise his moronic lust for tubby to be fired, but Tubby's first set of guys are actually sophomores right now.

- In Tubby We Trust -

 

[tjgopher]

This is the main reason Tubby took the job here in Minnesota. There is no pressure to win. He can recruit players of questionable character and be an NCAA bubble team that slips into the tournament once every couple years and people will still think he walks on water. I don't blame him one bit. It's a perfect gig as one with his acumen rides off into retirement.

Your post is illogical. If Tubby came here to just slide by - then why would he recruit questionable characters? He could slide by recruiting scholars and still occasionally be on the bubble. He took a couple of chances on kids because he is shooting for something more than the bubble zone.

On top of that, for a guy who is simply "riding off into retirement" he sure has done a decent job of working the recruiting trail. He's put together a couple of Top 20 classes already, has a couple of Top 20-40 players still considering the program for 2010, and has racked up about 150,000 miles of frequent flier miles trying to recruit over the past year. That doesn't sound like coasting to me, but if it makes you feel better to be a negative critic, go ahead and keep calling yourself a "Gopher fan."

 

[The-Real-Truth]

OK, let's break down my original post.

1) "This is the main reason Tubby took the job here in Minnesota. There is no pressure to win."

No question the pressure to win at UK got to Tubby and he no longer wanted to deal with the unrealistic expectations. Here at Minnesota, no pressure at all. Not my opinion, just a FACT.

2) "He can recruit players of questionable character and be an NCAA bubble team that slips into the tournament once every couple years and people will still think he walks on water."

This really needs no explanation. FACT.

Again, I don't blame Tubby at all for coming here. It's a great gig. I agree, this program is miles ahead of where they were under Monson 3-4 years ago. Don't kill the messenger folks.

Art, once again you proved to be the most stupid poster here. These are not facts. These are BS.

Tubby did not leave UK. They forced him out.
Do you mean that RW has a questionable character?
Before you open your mouth, please learn something about basketball. Tubby recruits players that fit into his system. He does not recruit superstars because he believes in team basketball not that NBA style of Calamari or others. Did you see what happened to OSU? Turner is out so is the season. UNC kicked Uk's butt when Jw didn't play yeasterday. They rely on one player to carry the team.

Please stop making these BS statements. You only make fool of yourself nothing more.

If Tubby was a free rider, why would he coach a team in B10 country? Have you thought about that. No, becasue you have no brain. No coachs in B10 has free ride.

 

[The Truth]

There are expectations at every program and "pressure to win". The thing is that those expectations and pressures are entirely at each and every program. Ohio State football has an entirely different level of expectation and pressures than say Indiana or Illinois football. Winning the Big 10, beating Michigan and competing for a national championship are pretty much the expectations at Ohio State every year. These are vastly different than just becoming bowl eligible every season-which I'm sure an IU would be happy with.

Expectations can also be raised by repeated and sustained performance over time. That's why Tubby Smith was hired. I don't think he was brought to Minnesota and compensated the way he was to just win 20 games and flirt with the NCAA tournament. He was brought to raise the profile of the program (which he's done), to turn around a floundering basketball program (which he's also done. Maybe not at a level everyone would wish at this point but he's made real progress) in the Big 10 and make Minnesota relevant on a national level (to be determined).

It's all a matter of perspective at the end of the day. From Minnesota's perspective Tubby is a great coach who was ran out of town by unreasonable fans (which is blatantly untrue but the perception exists) and from Kentucky's he was a good man who was overwhelmed by an elite level program because he couldn't meet certain expectations. If he could repeat what he did at Kentucky at Minnesota post-1998 he'd be a rousing success and expectations would increase at Minnesota as to what defines success regarding the basketball program.....and God forgive the man to follow him who didn't meet those raised expectations.

 

[The Truth]

Art, once again you proved to be the most stupid poster here. These are not facts. These are BS.

tubby did not leave UK. They forced him out.

Wrong. He wasn't "forced out". He chose to leave. He wanted to stay but he wanted an extension and he wanted to bring his son on staff.

Do you mean that RW has a questionable character?
Before you open your mouth, please learn something about basketball. Tubby recruits players that fit into his system. He does not recruit superstars because he believes in team basketball not that NBA style of Calamari or others. Did you see what happened to OSU? Turner is out so is the season. UNC kicked Uk's butt when Jw didn't play yeasterday. They rely on one player to carry the team.

You're the one that doesn't watch basketball. Jesus Christ this is just some astoundingly dumb spin.

If Tubby was a free rider, why would he coach a team in B10 country? Have you thought about that. No, becasue you have no brain. No coachs in B10 has free ride.

Money, opportunity to coach with his son and the ability to put a stamp on a program and create
the expectation level and legacy instead of having to live up to one are three examples off the top of my head.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Art, once again you proved to be the most stupid poster here. These are not facts. These are BS.



Wrong. He wasn't "forced out". He chose to leave. He wanted to stay but he wanted an extension and he wanted to bring his son on staff.

TRUE. TRUE. TRUE. FALSE. FALSE. (in order)



You're the one that doesn't watch basketball. Jesus Christ this is just some astoundingly dumb spin.


Money, opportunity to coach with his son and the ability to put a stamp on a program and create
the expectation level and legacy instead of having to live up to one are three examples off the top of my head.

60% truth, 40% not truth.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Art, once again you proved to be the most stupid poster here. These are not facts. These are BS.



Wrong. He wasn't "forced out". He chose to leave. He wanted to stay but he wanted an extension and he wanted to bring his son on staff.



You're the one that doesn't watch basketball. Jesus Christ this is just some astoundingly dumb spin.



Money, opportunity to coach with his son and the ability to put a stamp on a program and create
the expectation level and legacy instead of having to live up to one are three examples off the top of my head.

UK legacy. 1 NCAA title every 10 years.
Tubby at UK. 1 NCAA title in 10 years.

UK legacy. 5 SEC titles and 5 SECT championships every 10 years.
Tubby at UK. 5 SEC titles and 5 SECT championships every 10 years.

UK legacy. 76% all-time W-L record.
Tubby at UK. 76% W-L record.

UK legacy. 4 major NCAA infractions in 50+ years.
Tubby at UK. 0 major NCAA infractions in 10 years.

UK legacy. 69% all-time W-L record in NCAA games.
Tubby at UK. 72% W-L record in NCAA games.

I could go on but the message is clear.

The Truth isn't always the truth.