SadlyOptimistic
New member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2010
- Messages
- 25
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 1
First-time poster. Been fun following the board the past several weeks, figured I should join in.
While admittedly I am not enamored by this hire (was holding out for Harbaugh, Petersen, Edsall, heck even Hoke and Calhoun had me a bit more excited) I'm definitely willing to give Kill a chance.
If we've learned anything, is that successful Big Ten coaches can come from just about anywhere. Perhaps someone has already done this analysis, but here's a look at the other 9 incumbent Big Ten coaches (not going to include Indiana's soon-coach Kevin Wilson).
Bret Bielema
Where'd he come from: Co-DC at Kansas State, DC at Wisconsin
Where UW was before he came in 2006: coming off a 10-3 season with a win over Auburn on New Year's Day.
Where they've been since: 12-1 his first year, dipped down to 7-6 in 2008, then 10-3 last year and of course one loss away from potentially playing for the Championship this year.
Analysis: BB never was a head coach at any level. He inherited a good team and has kept it on course (arguably as good as any Alvarez team). Probably has the best OC in the Big Ten so not all credit can be given to him, but has a very successful record despite never being a head coach. Recruiting classes always decent but never great, yet their results seem to far exceed their talent.
Jim Tressel
Where'd he come from: 14 year head coach at Youngstown State, 6 1-AA championships
Where OSU was before he came in 2001: As mediocre as OSU had ever been, .500 in 1999 and only 8 wins in 2000.
Where they've been since: 2002 National Champion, only Big Ten team ever to play in a BCS Championship Game. Three other BCS Bowl wins.
Analysis: a guy who, like Kill, never coached in a BCS conference (or even a Division 1 school in his case, albeit an incredible record) before getting to Ohio State, brought the program back to prominence and then some.
Mark Dantonio
Where'd he come from: Big Ten defensive coach and coordinator before three years as head coach at Cincinnati, only 18-17 record there.
Where MSU was before he came in 2007: Yikes, 1-7 in the Big Ten in 2006. Many collapses under John L Smith.
Where they've been since: Four bowl games in four years, would have been in the Rose Bowl this year as an undefeated team had they taken care of business in Iowa.
Analysis: Very little head coaching experience, knew the Big Ten as a long-time assistant. But head coaching record was just OK - took a below-average Cinci team and made it slightly above average. Yet, he's done very well at MSU (despite a loss just last year to Brewster's Gophers).
Kirk Ferentz
Where'd he come from: NFL offensive line coach for several years. Only head coaching experience was at friggin' MAINE. Overall record 12-21.
Where Iowa was before he got there in 1999: Awful. 2-6 in 1998. And they were worse right out of the gate with Ferentz, only one win in 1999.
Where they've been since: Two BCS Bowl games, consistently contending in the Big Ten. 88-57 record.
Analysis: Almost closer to Brewster than Kill, apart from the three years of head coaching experience. Strong NFL experience, took the Iowa program and after a couple bad years has brought it to a perennial ranked team and infrequent Big Ten powerhouse. All this without any big school coaching experience.
Joe Paterno
Let's just skip the analysis on JoePa, yes? Fifteen years of assistant coaching experience at Penn State before taking the gig in 1966. 400+ wins. Hard to relate this to any other coaching position at any other D1 school. Kill won't coach here 45 years.
Pat Fitzgerald
Where'd he come from: No head coaching or coordinator experience. Linebacker coach in the BCS for seven years. Northwestern legend, led them to Rose Bowl as player.
Where was NU before he got there: Good, 5-3 in the Big Ten, 7 win team under the late Randy Walker.
Where they've been since: one down year, one .500 season, three bowl games including two New Years Day games
Analysis: Fitzgerald's hiring was a bit rushed given the untimely passing of Walker, but after one year learning the ropes, Northwestern (that's right, NORTHWESTERN) has been a very good team ever since. Fitzgerald had no head coaching OR coordinator experience at any level before taking the reigns, yet he's been about the most successful coach in NU history.
Ron Zook
Where'd he come from: well-known for his poor tenure at Florida, prior to that was a pro assistant
Where was Illinois before he took over: 3-8, only one Big Ten win
Where they've been since: two down years, then took a team of mostly his recruits to a rare Rose Bowl for Illinois before falling back to mediocrity.
Analysis: Basically was Brewster before Brewster, with some actual head coaching experience. Great rah-rah guy, recruiter, questionable in other coaching aspects. Hard to compare to Kill, though a very good friend and die-hard Illini friend texted me last night saying "pissed that you guys hired Kill. Was really hoping we'd fire Zook and hire him."
Rich Rodriguez
Where'd he come from: Successful coach at small school Glenville State before taking over at WVU, 7 straight bowl trips including two BCS bowl games before leaving before the 2008 Fiesta Bowl to take Michigan.
Where was UM before he got there in 2008: Extremely good. One game away from the BCS Championship game in 2006, beat Florida in Lloyd Carr's last game.
Where they've been since: perhaps the worst coaching tenure in Michigan history. Currently sits as the only losing Wolverine coach in school history unless you count the co-tenure of Mike Murphy and Frank Crawford in 1891.
Analysis: I think it bears mentioning that Rich Rod is, BY FAR, the most accomplished coach prior to his Big Ten position. 7 straight bowl games at a BCS school, including a giant win over a much more talented Georgia team in the 2006 Sugar Bowl. Yet, among the 9 coaches listed here, it's easy to reason he's done the worst job. A losing record with a helmet school. This goes to show - sometimes the *sexy* name isn't always the right guy.
Danny Hope
Where'd he come from: 5 years as a head coach at Eastern Kentucky, one playoff berth, 35-22 record
Where Purdue was before he came in 2009: Probably Joe Tiller's worst season, though it was a nice run under Coach Joe. Went to a Rose Bowl and several other bowls during his tenure.
Where they've been since: two seasons under .500 and no bowl games.
Analysis: And THIS is the guy the anti-Kill people can point to in order to back their argument. The argument of "this guy's a winner" applied to Hope too (granted, at a level lower than the MAC) but hasn't applied yet at Purdue (and it stands to reason he could have a pretty short leash). But Hope only has 5 years of head coaching experience, vs the 16 Kill has.
FINALLY, after all that, my summary:
The Big Ten proves that past success as a big-time D1 coach doesn't necessarily result into success here. Of the 9 coaches listed, only one had been significantly successful at a big-time level (Rich Rod). None of the others had as much experience at the D1 level as one Jerry Kill before taking the helm.
I'm not going to fret that we didn't get Chris Petersen (more similar to Rich Rod than any of the other coaches above) nor anyone that has coached at a big school. Sometimes it's true, "coaching is coaching" and you can find the good ones as a diamond in the rough.
16 years as a head coach and a guy who's won everywhere he's gone? You're darn right I'll give Jerry Kill a chance....
While admittedly I am not enamored by this hire (was holding out for Harbaugh, Petersen, Edsall, heck even Hoke and Calhoun had me a bit more excited) I'm definitely willing to give Kill a chance.
If we've learned anything, is that successful Big Ten coaches can come from just about anywhere. Perhaps someone has already done this analysis, but here's a look at the other 9 incumbent Big Ten coaches (not going to include Indiana's soon-coach Kevin Wilson).
Bret Bielema
Where'd he come from: Co-DC at Kansas State, DC at Wisconsin
Where UW was before he came in 2006: coming off a 10-3 season with a win over Auburn on New Year's Day.
Where they've been since: 12-1 his first year, dipped down to 7-6 in 2008, then 10-3 last year and of course one loss away from potentially playing for the Championship this year.
Analysis: BB never was a head coach at any level. He inherited a good team and has kept it on course (arguably as good as any Alvarez team). Probably has the best OC in the Big Ten so not all credit can be given to him, but has a very successful record despite never being a head coach. Recruiting classes always decent but never great, yet their results seem to far exceed their talent.
Jim Tressel
Where'd he come from: 14 year head coach at Youngstown State, 6 1-AA championships
Where OSU was before he came in 2001: As mediocre as OSU had ever been, .500 in 1999 and only 8 wins in 2000.
Where they've been since: 2002 National Champion, only Big Ten team ever to play in a BCS Championship Game. Three other BCS Bowl wins.
Analysis: a guy who, like Kill, never coached in a BCS conference (or even a Division 1 school in his case, albeit an incredible record) before getting to Ohio State, brought the program back to prominence and then some.
Mark Dantonio
Where'd he come from: Big Ten defensive coach and coordinator before three years as head coach at Cincinnati, only 18-17 record there.
Where MSU was before he came in 2007: Yikes, 1-7 in the Big Ten in 2006. Many collapses under John L Smith.
Where they've been since: Four bowl games in four years, would have been in the Rose Bowl this year as an undefeated team had they taken care of business in Iowa.
Analysis: Very little head coaching experience, knew the Big Ten as a long-time assistant. But head coaching record was just OK - took a below-average Cinci team and made it slightly above average. Yet, he's done very well at MSU (despite a loss just last year to Brewster's Gophers).
Kirk Ferentz
Where'd he come from: NFL offensive line coach for several years. Only head coaching experience was at friggin' MAINE. Overall record 12-21.
Where Iowa was before he got there in 1999: Awful. 2-6 in 1998. And they were worse right out of the gate with Ferentz, only one win in 1999.
Where they've been since: Two BCS Bowl games, consistently contending in the Big Ten. 88-57 record.
Analysis: Almost closer to Brewster than Kill, apart from the three years of head coaching experience. Strong NFL experience, took the Iowa program and after a couple bad years has brought it to a perennial ranked team and infrequent Big Ten powerhouse. All this without any big school coaching experience.
Joe Paterno
Let's just skip the analysis on JoePa, yes? Fifteen years of assistant coaching experience at Penn State before taking the gig in 1966. 400+ wins. Hard to relate this to any other coaching position at any other D1 school. Kill won't coach here 45 years.
Pat Fitzgerald
Where'd he come from: No head coaching or coordinator experience. Linebacker coach in the BCS for seven years. Northwestern legend, led them to Rose Bowl as player.
Where was NU before he got there: Good, 5-3 in the Big Ten, 7 win team under the late Randy Walker.
Where they've been since: one down year, one .500 season, three bowl games including two New Years Day games
Analysis: Fitzgerald's hiring was a bit rushed given the untimely passing of Walker, but after one year learning the ropes, Northwestern (that's right, NORTHWESTERN) has been a very good team ever since. Fitzgerald had no head coaching OR coordinator experience at any level before taking the reigns, yet he's been about the most successful coach in NU history.
Ron Zook
Where'd he come from: well-known for his poor tenure at Florida, prior to that was a pro assistant
Where was Illinois before he took over: 3-8, only one Big Ten win
Where they've been since: two down years, then took a team of mostly his recruits to a rare Rose Bowl for Illinois before falling back to mediocrity.
Analysis: Basically was Brewster before Brewster, with some actual head coaching experience. Great rah-rah guy, recruiter, questionable in other coaching aspects. Hard to compare to Kill, though a very good friend and die-hard Illini friend texted me last night saying "pissed that you guys hired Kill. Was really hoping we'd fire Zook and hire him."
Rich Rodriguez
Where'd he come from: Successful coach at small school Glenville State before taking over at WVU, 7 straight bowl trips including two BCS bowl games before leaving before the 2008 Fiesta Bowl to take Michigan.
Where was UM before he got there in 2008: Extremely good. One game away from the BCS Championship game in 2006, beat Florida in Lloyd Carr's last game.
Where they've been since: perhaps the worst coaching tenure in Michigan history. Currently sits as the only losing Wolverine coach in school history unless you count the co-tenure of Mike Murphy and Frank Crawford in 1891.
Analysis: I think it bears mentioning that Rich Rod is, BY FAR, the most accomplished coach prior to his Big Ten position. 7 straight bowl games at a BCS school, including a giant win over a much more talented Georgia team in the 2006 Sugar Bowl. Yet, among the 9 coaches listed here, it's easy to reason he's done the worst job. A losing record with a helmet school. This goes to show - sometimes the *sexy* name isn't always the right guy.
Danny Hope
Where'd he come from: 5 years as a head coach at Eastern Kentucky, one playoff berth, 35-22 record
Where Purdue was before he came in 2009: Probably Joe Tiller's worst season, though it was a nice run under Coach Joe. Went to a Rose Bowl and several other bowls during his tenure.
Where they've been since: two seasons under .500 and no bowl games.
Analysis: And THIS is the guy the anti-Kill people can point to in order to back their argument. The argument of "this guy's a winner" applied to Hope too (granted, at a level lower than the MAC) but hasn't applied yet at Purdue (and it stands to reason he could have a pretty short leash). But Hope only has 5 years of head coaching experience, vs the 16 Kill has.
FINALLY, after all that, my summary:
The Big Ten proves that past success as a big-time D1 coach doesn't necessarily result into success here. Of the 9 coaches listed, only one had been significantly successful at a big-time level (Rich Rod). None of the others had as much experience at the D1 level as one Jerry Kill before taking the helm.
I'm not going to fret that we didn't get Chris Petersen (more similar to Rich Rod than any of the other coaches above) nor anyone that has coached at a big school. Sometimes it's true, "coaching is coaching" and you can find the good ones as a diamond in the rough.
16 years as a head coach and a guy who's won everywhere he's gone? You're darn right I'll give Jerry Kill a chance....
