Help Me to Understand

ORGopher

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I found this link to some website (Bleacher Report). The person who wrote this referenced some things other people have said as well, and I am at a loss because I don't understand.

1. He talks about how much more talent Tim Brewster has than Glen Mason because of his ability to recruit. Forget the recruiting rankings because they don't mean anything. My question about Brewster's group is - find me an all-conference kid on the roster, yet alone someone that is going to be playing on Sundays. At least Mason produced Barber, Maroney, Speath, Setterstrom, Tapeh and a handful of others on NFL rosters - in addition to Eslinger who is one of the most decorated Gopher football players in the history of the program. I need some help with the talent thing, because maybe the four-star guys he is recruiting are because no other coach really thinks they are worth the four-star ranking.

2. It was also said in the article Minnesota had an impressive victory at Middle Tennessee State. That alone is enough to fire the coach. Since when is any victory - at home or away - against the Sun Belt impressive, esp. when they don't have their best player.

Sorry, my kool-aid bottle is empty and I refuse to drink any more until we have a new coach.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/459892-help-wanted-head-football-coach-university-of-minnesota-golden-gophers?utm_source=newsletter
 

you are comparing players who completed at a four year college career minimum with players that are 2 games into a junior or redshirt sophmore season.
 

silvio said:
you are comparing players who completed at a four year college career minimum with players that are 2 games into a junior or redshirt sophmore season.

Then why are so many people convinced that the talent level has increased under Brewster? Does talent make it's way to the field, and to award banquets. Or when the "Brewster's teams are more talented" arguments are made, are we just talking vertical jumps and 40 times?

I don't get it either. Agree with the OP.
 

1. He talks about how much more talent Tim Brewster has than Glen Mason because of his ability to recruit. Forget the recruiting rankings because they don't mean anything. My question about Brewster's group is - find me an all-conference kid on the roster, yet alone someone that is going to be playing on Sundays. At least Mason produced Barber, Maroney, Speath, Setterstrom, Tapeh and a handful of others on NFL rosters - in addition to Eslinger who is one of the most decorated Gopher football players in the history of the program. I need some help with the talent thing, because maybe the four-star guys he is recruiting are because no other coach really thinks they are worth the four-star ranking.

To say that recruit rankings mean nothing is to say that there is no correlation between the rankings of recruiting classes and success on the field. We should expect to find the worst teams recruiting classes rated on average no higher than those of the best teams.

This is not the case. The best teams tend to have better recruit ratings. Therefore, the recruit ratings mean at least something. No one is claiming they are a guarantee of winning, but life isn't all about everything or nothing.

If other coaches didn't think recruits merited 4-star ratings, then they wouldn't have given them scholarship offers.
 

People perceive the talent to be better due to the better rankings given to Brewster's classes. However, it is still an apples to oranges comparison until Brewster's recruits are seniors and redshirt juniors.
 


silvio said:
People perceive the talent to be better due to the better rankings given to Brewster's classes. However, it is still an apples to oranges comparison until Brewster's recruits are seniors and redshirt juniors.

ok, not trying to be smug. When is that?
 


If you don't count his first recruiting class ( 2-3 months of recruiting vs a full year) then it would be next year at the end of the season. I am not saying that Brewster has done enough to coach that long, but five years is the typical time frame for evaluating coaches rebuilding a program.
 

I found this link to some website (Bleacher Report). The person who wrote this referenced some things other people have said as well, and I am at a loss because I don't understand.

1. He talks about how much more talent Tim Brewster has than Glen Mason because of his ability to recruit. Forget the recruiting rankings because they don't mean anything. My question about Brewster's group is - find me an all-conference kid on the roster, yet alone someone that is going to be playing on Sundays. At least Mason produced Barber, Maroney, Speath, Setterstrom, Tapeh and a handful of others on NFL rosters - in addition to Eslinger who is one of the most decorated Gopher football players in the history of the program. I need some help with the talent thing, because maybe the four-star guys he is recruiting are because no other coach really thinks they are worth the four-star ranking.

2. It was also said in the article Minnesota had an impressive victory at Middle Tennessee State. That alone is enough to fire the coach. Since when is any victory - at home or away - against the Sun Belt impressive, esp. when they don't have their best player.

Sorry, my kool-aid bottle is empty and I refuse to drink any more until we have a new coach.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/459892-help-wanted-head-football-coach-university-of-minnesota-golden-gophers?utm_source=newsletter

1. As someone already stated, Brewster's recruits aren't upperclassmen yet AND if Brewter and his staff suck at coaching a player up that shouldn't diminish the fact that they have talent. Recruiting sites go off of a players "measurables" and offer list.

2. It was an "impressive" win in the sense that we dominated offensively not in the "Oh my god can you believe we beat MTSU?!!" sense.
 



The talent question is really hard to say. I think there are a handful of players on this years Gopher squad that have the potential to one day play in the NFL.

I wouldn't be shocked if Gray, Edwards, Kirksey and Rallis all end up in the NFL. There certainly could be others and those guys certainly won't make it but it's really tough to tell until the end of their careers. IF you don't believe me, look at the difference in a "players stock" from NFL mock drafts today compared with what it will be in April.

Now, i'm not really saying any of this makes a difference. IF we have USC's talent and have games like saturday, we need to move in a new direction. But yeah, to answer your first question, I do believe that we have more talent (or the seeds to be much mroe talented).
 

I even understand the redshirt junior and senior thing less. If I remember correctly guys like Maroney, Barber, Eslinger, Spaeth, Setterstrom, Ron Johnson, etc. made sizable contributions as freshman and sophomores or at least showed flashes. Heck, Maroney was Freshman of the Year in the Big Ten. Barber rushed for 1,000 yards as a sophomore. You saw something special in these guys. I have not seen one guy in two games that I look at and think "this is a difference-maker for the program." So I don't think you can hold onto the fact Brew's guys need another year. Yes, they need to be upperclassmen before I expect Gopher Nation to make a run at the Rose Bowl, but the light-bulb does not just go on....there has to be flashes of hope.

I am more upset by the fact the program continues to go backward. I was part of the fan base that was frustrated with the fact Mason could not get over the hump, but I am starting to believe he was much closer to getting us there than Brew will every be, and he has the new stadium to help his program.

Anyway, better stop while I am on the soap-box.
 

Very talented skill position players can excel right away. However, there is usually only one or two on one side of the ball at a time and they are surrounded by experienced players on the lines. You are also using running back as your example which is relies on more instinct and less coaching.
 

OR, you are correct and your example of Maroney is a perfect. People can keep going with Brewster is a great recruiter if they want but there is nothing seen from the on field performance that the talent level is any better than previous years. In fact to go with RodentRampage's theory the talent level is in fact getting worse as the team recruiting ranking has been going down each year.

It is year 4 under this head coach. What is the identity of the team? Started out as spread offense and now is going to a power running game which still has a long way to go before proving it can run the ball on better defenses.

On defense there is no identity at all. In year 4 this cannot happen. Brewster is in over his head and that is too painfully clear. What can anyone look to and see where progress is being made? Someone please show me if you can.

And for all the so called redshirt sophomore and junior talent on defense if it was really there giving up 41 points to South Dakota would have never happened no matter how inexperience.
 



Football is a team sport and the tragedy of this team under this coach is that the whole is WAY less than the sum of its parts. A phenomenal athlete like MarQueis Gray can have so much potential squashed by a coach who doesn't know where to put him or how to play him, a coordinator carousel that doesn't teach him coherently, a line that can't protect him or block for him when he plays QB (see last year), a QB who can't hit him (see most snaps at WR), etc.

It's the same story at other positions. The players aren't working together as a team. The buck stops at Brewster. He thinks he can recruit a bunch of skilled athletes and put them on the field and let them work their magic. It doesn't work like that. All of our opponents have skilled athletes too, except the two we just played, who instead happen to know how to play football better than us. Ooooops???? For such a big talker, he is incredibly slow to get this.

Under a skilled coach, this situation is reversed, and with these same players -- who I am not dissing at all, on the contrary, they have tons of potential -- we are a ranked team.
 

We don't have one player on offense that can come close to what Mason had for most of his stay in MN. It didn't look like it on Sat., but I do believe we have better talent on defense now than Mason had for most of his stay in MN. This makes for a bad team sorry to say.
 

Brew is all talk...

How many players has he hyped up that didn't produce? Howell? Carpenter? Pittman? Maresh?

I'm tired of hearing about how good we are instead of showing it on the field...
 

1. As someone already stated, Brewster's recruits aren't upperclassmen yet AND if Brewter and his staff suck at coaching a player up that shouldn't diminish the fact that they have talent. Recruiting sites go off of a players "measurables" and offer list.

2. It was an "impressive" win in the sense that we dominated offensively not in the "Oh my god can you believe we beat MTSU?!!" sense.

Maybe we can band together and petition the Rose Bowl to select us on the basis of our recruiting.
 


I found this link to some website (Bleacher Report). The person who wrote this referenced some things other people have said as well, and I am at a loss because I don't understand.

1. He talks about how much more talent Tim Brewster has than Glen Mason because of his ability to recruit. Forget the recruiting rankings because they don't mean anything. My question about Brewster's group is - find me an all-conference kid on the roster, yet alone someone that is going to be playing on Sundays. At least Mason produced Barber, Maroney, Speath, Setterstrom, Tapeh and a handful of others on NFL rosters - in addition to Eslinger who is one of the most decorated Gopher football players in the history of the program. I need some help with the talent thing, because maybe the four-star guys he is recruiting are because no other coach really thinks they are worth the four-star ranking.

2. It was also said in the article Minnesota had an impressive victory at Middle Tennessee State. That alone is enough to fire the coach. Since when is any victory - at home or away - against the Sun Belt impressive, esp. when they don't have their best player.

Sorry, my kool-aid bottle is empty and I refuse to drink any more until we have a new coach.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/459892-help-wanted-head-football-coach-university-of-minnesota-golden-gophers?utm_source=newsletter

I wrote it. If you read it, I said that there was more talent now than when Mason was fired. I'm not talking about Maroney/Barber/Eslinger. I'm talking about the state of the roster after Texas Tech. You can argue about how subjective talent is, but this is the starting lineup for the Insight Bowl in 2006:

MinnesotaPOS ## OFFENSEWR 84 Payne, LoganTE 80 Simmons, JackTE 86 Reilly, TroyLT 79 DeGeest, MattLG 56 Swaggert, TysonC 77 Brinkhaus, TonyRG 66 Tavale, NedwardRT 78 Ainslie, JoeQB 3 Cupito, BryanTB 29 Pinnix, AmirWR 1 Wheelwright, E.POS ## DEFENSEDE 91 VanDeSteeg, W.RT 98 Allen, NeelLE 92 Davis, SteveLB 44 Hightower, DeonLB 58 Sherels, MikeLB 48 Reese, MarioCB 2 Jones, DominicS 26 Cooley, DuranS 28 Mannion, KevinS 23 Barber, DomCB 15 Harris, Jamal

Maybe this group won't send more players to the NFL, but I suspect they will.

I found the win at MTSU impressive. Not the score, but the way they won the ballgame, dominating the line of scrimmage and totally controlling time of possesion. I thought they were building something, but losing to USD negated all that Brewster accomplished in week 1. I hope I'm wrong and he turns it around, but it's hard to be optimistic at this point. He won't be fired in season, but it might be best for all parties involved to cut the cord now.
 

But it was MTSU...they're much smaller then Minnesota...they *SHOULD'VE* dominated...

It's like being impressed with the 6 foot 300 pound guy for whooping on a 4 foot 150 pound guy...you shouldn't be surprised...

If anything it should've caused concern that we held the ball for 80% of the game & still needed a score with 3 mins left to go to win it...against MTSU...not exactly something to overlook...and USD proved that...
 

For a team that struggled basically all of 2009 to run the ball with any consistency, week 1 was impressive. Of course they were bigger. The Gophers knew that and exploited it. It wasn't a "program changer" but it was something positive to build on. Brewster and his staff blew it all by overlooking USD and now sit at the bottom of the mountain.
 




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