Has Tubby's time to leave arrived?

[bballjunkie]

I, like most of you who follow this web site was excited the day Tubby was hired. I was hopeful we got a coach that could recruit players, teach them so they improve and most of all win in the Big 10. Sad to say I am not seeing much in the recruiting area. As for teaching them and seeing improvement, I think anyone reading this knows our players seem to regress as their careers go on. Winning in the Big 10, guess we all know that story also. I long for the days of Clem Haskins. Clem didn't play by the rules, but he could recruit, the players improved and he won in the Big 10. Maybe I should direct my disappointment more to the assistants and not at Tubby, replacing them is more likely at this time. Tubby still needs to look himself in the mirror and realize he is getting out-coached every game. The question I have 6 years after Tubby's arrival, is he really a good coach or has he just been riding on the laurels of the Kentucky team that won the National Championship? Remember those were not his players that he recruited, they were all players that Patino recruited. Do we just continue to accept mediocrity or does Norwood Teague have the courage to say, enough is enough?

 

[GopherJake]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

 

[sec105]

Has Tubby's time to leave arrived?

Nope it hasn't.

 

[bballjunkie]

GopherJake and sec105, are you being homers or can you really be objective about this. I have been a die hard fan going to games for 40 years and Tubby gets out-coached every game! I learned how to attack a zone defense in 8th grade basketball, why can't the Gophers year after year. Do you blame the players?

 

[GopherJake]

GopherJake and sec105, are you being homers or can you really be objective about this. I have been a die hard fan going to games for 40 years and Tubby gets out-coached every game! I learned how to attack a zone defense in 8th grade basketball, why can't the Gophers year after year. Do you blame the players?

We've had your exact same post made 400 times here. I think it may have been the exact same wording.

 

[sec105]

GopherJake and sec105, are you being homers or can you really be objective about this. I have been a die hard fan going to games for 40 years and Tubby gets out-coached every game! I learned how to attack a zone defense in 8th grade basketball, why can't the Gophers year after year. Do you blame the players?

If you read any of my posts you'd realize I am far from a homer. However calling for Tubby to be gone after every single loss is getting very old. Tubby didn't miss all thoughs wide open shots last night. Tubby didnt turn the ball over in crucial situations last night. Tubby is staying put.

 

[bballjunkie]

GopherJake, I have never posted this kind of statement here before. I am just stating what probably 90 % of the loyal Gopher fans are thinking right now. If you think Tubby and his staff are doing a good job, so be it. I feel I am in a majority of fans who are pretty tired of the status quo. Every year I get fired up during the early season, a big win against a really good team and we build up big win totals and then the other foot drops in the Big 10 season. We have far superior talent on this team compared to Wisconsin, Michigan State and Ohio State. I really don't see much of a talent difference with us and Indiana this year either, yet where are we again? Just my opinion

 

[Johnnyboy18]

GopherJake, I have never posted this kind of statement here before. I am just stating what probably 90 % of the loyal Gopher fans are thinking right now. If you think Tubby and his staff are doing a good job, so be it. I feel I am in a majority of fans who are pretty tired of the status quo. Every year I get fired up during the early season, a big win against a really good team and we build up big win totals and then the other foot drops in the Big 10 season. We have far superior talent on this team compared to Wisconsin, Michigan State and Ohio State. I really don't see much of a talent difference with us and Indiana this year either, yet where are we again? Just my opinion

90%? Hahahahah more like 10. Did you really just say we have more talent then MSU and OSU and we are even with Indiana? Go to rivals and look up the stars of the Gophers players compared to those schools.

 

[Moses87]

GopherJake, I have never posted this kind of statement here before. I am just stating what probably 90 % of the loyal Gopher fans are thinking right now. If you think Tubby and his staff are doing a good job, so be it. I feel I am in a majority of fans who are pretty tired of the status quo. Every year I get fired up during the early season, a big win against a really good team and we build up big win totals and then the other foot drops in the Big 10 season. We have far superior talent on this team compared to Wisconsin, Michigan State and Ohio State. I really don't see much of a talent difference with us and Indiana this year either, yet where are we again? Just my opinion

Far superior talent than MSU and OSU??? Nobody has been more disappointed in Tubby than yours truly...But I would not say Tubby has superior talent to MSU or OSU. Those teams have 4 and 5 star talents at nearly every position. We have a good enough team that we should be up higher in the standings...Probably higher up than Wisconsin and we should never lose to NW, but our talent is somewhat limited at the PG position and that makes it hard to win a half court game.

 

[bballjunkie]

sec105, I have not called for Tubby's head after any loss this year or in the past. I am just getting tired of the excuses year after year. Can he really coach, can he really mold players? This isn't just one game, this isn't just the past few weeks, this is a trend every year. I am a huge Tubby fan, I would love to have him be our coach for years to come, however things need to change, either his staff or the way he teaches.

 

[bballjunkie]

These are not that talented of teams this year at MSU or OSU. OSU is all Thomas. This is one of the best coaching jobs Izzo has ever done at MSU.

 

[mcal24]

90%? Hahahahah more like 10. Did you really just say we have more talent then MSU and OSU and we are even with Indiana? Go to rivals and look up the stars of the Gophers players compared to those schools.

Oh yeah because stars on rivals really represents how good a player is...

 

[BTen]

This argument is pointless. Until the U takes care of facilities there is zero chance of recruiting a better coach that it has now.
After facilities are in place.......argue away.

 

[lakesgopher]

sec105, I have not called for Tubby's head after any loss this year or in the past. I am just getting tired of the excuses year after year. Can he really coach, can he really mold players? This isn't just one game, this isn't just the past few weeks, this is a trend every year. I am a huge Tubby fan, I would love to have him be our coach for years to come, however things need to change, either his staff or the way he teaches.

The past few weeks we have played Michigan, Indiana, mich st, @ wisky(who beat Indiana at home), and nu who is tough at home. It's not like the past few weeks we have played Duluth, St. Cloud, and Mankato. I'm extremely tired of the arm chair fan that has no idea whether tubby is a good or bad coach. He might suck I don't know? The fact so many use a blanket statement such as "tubby is out coached" without any real example is a joke. I have the nu game on my DVR and during the second half tubby is screaming at Andre and joe to "attack" and they didn't. Is that bad coaching? Might be? Might be on the players not following tubby? If the players aren't willing to go to the ends of the world for coach smith then I'm fine with getting rid of him after the season. If the player are inferior to teams like mich, Indiana, etc then we need to make sure we get the practice facility and any other amenities to the U ASAP. The key to college basketball is guard play and nothing about the barn, cold weather, no practice facility, a history of mediocrity, and a bandwagon fanbase is going to bring top talent here. So if these are the reasons we can't get talent here, why the hell would any rising star in the coaching ranks come here? We have a double edged sword of poop and to me that's more frustrating than the losses. If we can't keep up in the facilities race nothing will ever change.

Sorry I started to rant but its a lot more complicated than coaching at Minnesota and if you can't see that you are blind!

 

[GophersInIowa]

As for teaching them and seeing improvement, I think anyone reading this knows our players seem to regress as their careers go on.

I can't say I agree with this. There are plenty of examples, even on the current team, of guys improving. Andre and Austin have improved this year. Rodney Williams has improved over his career. Now I would say that there are some like Williams who haven't improved as much as we hoped/expected but I don't think that means they regressed.

Do you blame the players?

I know it wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer. I think they deserve some of the blame, absolutely. Some like to blame Tubby all the time, and some like to say it's not his fault at all. I like to think it's somewhere in the middle.

I am just stating what probably 90 % of the loyal Gopher fans are thinking right now. If you think Tubby and his staff are doing a good job, so be it.

I highly doubt it's that high. And just because someone doesn't think he should be fired doesn't mean they think he's doing a great job or anything.

As for your original question, I think we should wait until the end of the season to determine that. With the big 2014 MN recruiting class coming up, I don't think now is a good time to make a coaching change unless things get really bad (like we miss out on the tourney this year). I'd like to see how he does recruiting next year. If he can't land any of the big 3, and we continue to be mediocre, then it's probably time.

And don't take some of the responses to your posts personal. It's just been talked about continuously on here, and gets brought up every time we lose. I hope you continue to post on g'hole.

 

[Moses87]

These are not that talented of teams this year at MSU or OSU. OSU is all Thomas. This is one of the best coaching jobs Izzo has ever done at MSU.

OSU has a roster laden with McDonalds's all-Americans like Ross, Thompson, Thomas and Scott. Amir Williams, Lenzelle Smith and Craft were also big time recruits. On paper, OSU has much better talent from 1-12.

MSU also has a slew of big-time recruits like Appling, Payne, Dawson, Nix and Harris. We are probably very similar with MSU in terms of actual talent. I would give them a slight edge.

 

[Dr.Don]

The arguer one is, the wronger one is. Someone (bballjunkie in this case) starts a new thread that is on a topic argued ad nauseum on numerous other threads, and argues to continue an argument. An early ban on this dude is called for.

 

[mcal24]

The arguer one is, the wronger one is. Someone (bballjunkie in this case) starts a new thread that is on a topic argued ad nauseum on numerous other threads, and argues to continue an argument. An early ban on this dude is called for.

Who cares? Just don't go to this thread if it bothers you that much. Stop being a whiny little b*tch.

 

[mplarson7]

We have far superior talent on this team compared to......Michigan State and Ohio State. I really don't see much of a talent difference with us and Indiana this year either

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

 

[dboy]

many gh'er have played and/or coached BB at many different levels..
so it is frustrating to see what we think is an obvious adjustment not being taken ( push the ball, EE at high post, more movement on O, more touches to trevor, etc etc ).
but for every suggestion, there is a reason Tubby and his staff don't employ it ( i believe ).

so i must give Tubby and his staff the benefit of the doubt..

ex: i think they should push the ball: but the staff sees MSU/wisky/iowa, etc with 5 TOs in a game and they know pushing the ball will run your right out of the game.
ex: i think EE should be at the high post: then rodney sits? who defends 4's that can shoot for Michigan, MSU, wisky, etc.?
ex: trevor needs more touches: but he is undersized, limited in his post moves when not real 'deep' in the post, and who will rebound his misses? rodney?

also..

obvious mistakes in the zone ( open 3's ), or Dre dropping down to double Nix and leaving Appling wide open... even if Tubby is so bad that he doesn't see this ( but he does see ut ) can we assume his entire staff doesn't see those things? to me, Dre was exhausted both mentally and physically playing 'chase' on D running thru picks and then trying to run the O against a solid MSU D. Options? none.

so i must give tubby and his staff the benefit of the doubt... but it took me a few years to get here..

 

[savagerube]

I, like most of you who follow this web site was excited the day Tubby was hired. I was hopeful we got a coach that could recruit players, teach them so they improve and most of all win in the Big 10. Sad to say I am not seeing much in the recruiting area. As for teaching them and seeing improvement, I think anyone reading this knows our players seem to regress as their careers go on. Winning in the Big 10, guess we all know that story also. I long for the days of Clem Haskins. Clem didn't play by the rules, but he could recruit, the players improved and he won in the Big 10. Maybe I should direct my disappointment more to the assistants and not at Tubby, replacing them is more likely at this time. Tubby still needs to look himself in the mirror and realize he is getting out-coached every game. The question I have 6 years after Tubby's arrival, is he really a good coach or has he just been riding on the laurels of the Kentucky team that won the National Championship? Remember those were not his players that he recruited, they were all players that Patino recruited. Do we just continue to accept mediocrity or does Norwood Teague have the courage to say, enough is enough?

Tubby is the only coach in the history of the Gopher's program to appear (legitimately) in back-to-back NCAA's tourney's. This right here shows that expectations for this program might be a little exaggerated. I hate to settle for mediocrity but it is what it is. Just a month ago, we saw the first top 10 match up at the Barn in 40 years. That's crazy!! This team right now is exactly what Gopher's basketball program has been for a long time: a bubble team that might make the tourney every now and them. Is Tubby to blame? Who knows. This topic has been beaten to the ground over and over.

THE GOPHERS ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!!

 

[howeda7]

Tubby has it in his contract that he can't be terminated during the season. Since it's literally impossible to fire him for at least 9 more games, can't we please give it a rest and see how those 9 games go? There will then be plenty of time to have posts ad nauseum about just how very fired Tubby should be and just how very keen Shaka Smart really is. Thanks.

 

[bga1]

Tubby is the only coach in the history of the Gopher's program to appear (legitimately) in back-to-back NCAA's tourney's. This right here shows that expectations for this program might be a little exaggerated. I hate to settle for mediocrity but it is what it is. Just a month ago, we saw the first top 10 match up at the Barn in 40 years. That's crazy!! This team right now is exactly what Gopher's basketball program has been for a long time: a bubble team that might make the tourney every now and them. Is Tubby to blame? Who knows. This topic has been beaten to the ground over and over.

THE GOPHERS ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!!

Savage- Tubby should not be fired. But there needs to be serious changes in staff after this season almost regardless of what happens the rest of the year. If you look at a little history here's what it has come to:

Tubby in his 5.5 years 46-58 in the BT- 44% winning percentage
Monson in his last 5 years 35-45 on the BT-44% winning percentage

Monson was a LOUSY recruiter outside of Minnesota and never had a roster even close to Tubby's current roster talent wise. Honestly I think Monson is a much better floor coach than Tubby. That's how bad it is in my view.

Tubby needs a Molinari type hire- but on offense instead of defense. His offensive style is just plain terrible.

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

Shaka's VCU team might not make the NCAA tournament this year.

His team blew a big lead on a team that they were supposedly far superior to and then lost the game. It was part of an ugly 2 game losing streak, easily comparable if not worse than our losses to NW and Wisconsin. And since VCU doesn't play Top 5 ranked teams, I'm thinking its fair to only look at the two teams when they are playing fairly comparable scedules. After his little fluke of a run to the FF, no one can claim that Tubby should have a huge advantage over him when it comes to recruiting.


But Shaka isn't the topic of this discussion, so I'll move on.


I spend alot more time at forums where I am the only Gopher fan and bb fans outside of Minnesota have alot more respect for Tubby than some Gopher fans do. I've been told on several occasions that far INFERIOR Gopher teams, as far as talent goes, were able to beat teams like Indiana, because Tubby OUTCOACHED the other coach.

This is the first year, SO FAR, where injuries have not caused a downturn, and so far we do not have a single bad loss as far as the NCAA Selection Committee is concerned. Our losses are to THREE Top 5 ranked teams, a Top 15 team on the road, a Top 50 team on the road and a Top 100 team on the road.

If Kansas can lose to TCU, and I'll just mention that one game, and not list the 40 other examples of highly ranked teams losing to far inferior teams, mostly in road games, but some were home games as well, then I don't know why so many people think the world is ending because of our loss to NW. That one loss is the only thing close to a bad loss so far this year.

Could we have played better and pulled off upsets and be sitting with only 1 loss so far this year?! Sure, weirder things have happened. But all that would happen if THAT was the situation, is we'd be the most overrated team in the land and we'd be setting ourselves up for a big disappointment in the NCAA tourney.

I'd rather be the underrated team like in 89 and 90 that came through in the end, than this years version of the High ranking team that loses early in the Big Dance, like Missouri did last year, because they were overrated.


It's simple, Michigan and Indiana and OSU and Michigan St are all better teams than we are. So we should finish in 5th place. Which, in a year like this year, would be a great finish. Could get us a Top 4 seed in the NCAA tourney.

We could realistically win 4 of our next 5 games, and maybe get lucky and win all 5, and then I want to see you in here reminding us all how we should all consider firing Tubby. Or better yet, WAIT until the season is firggen over, ok?! Is that too much to ask?!

 

[savagerube]

Savage- Tubby should not be fired. But there needs to be serious changes in staff after this season almost regardless of what happens the rest of the year. If you look at a little history here's what it has come to:

Tubby in his 5.5 years 46-58 in the BT- 44% winning percentage
Monson in his last 5 years 35-45 on the BT-44% winning percentage

Monson was a LOUSY recruiter outside of Minnesota and never had a roster even close to Tubby's current roster talent wise. Honestly I think Monson is a much better floor coach than Tubby. That's how bad it is in my view.

Tubby needs a Molinari type hire- but on offense instead of defense. His offensive style is just plain terrible.

I think the BIG has progressed talent-wise since the Monson Era:

Last 5 years of Monson's tenure: Faced 21 top 25 teams
First 5 years of Tubby's tenure (not including this year): faced 41 top 25 teams.

This right here is my biggest argument when fans compare the two coaches. Tubby has faced twice as many top 25 teams than Monson did in the same amount of time. I agree with you, Tubby shouldn't be fired. However, something needs to change; especially considering where the B1G is heading talent-wise.

 

[bga1]

I think the BIG has progressed talent-wise since the Monson Era:

Last 5 years of Monson's tenure: Faced 21 top 25 teams
First 5 years of Tubby's tenure (not including this year): faced 41 top 25 teams.

This right here is my biggest argument when fans compare the two coaches. Tubby has faced twice as many top 25 teams than Monson did in the same amount of time. I agree with you, Tubby shouldn't be fired. However, something needs to change; especially considering where the B1G is heading talent-wise.

Savage- are you speaking of the number of top 25 teams faced in the whole schedule or just in the Big Ten? I like the run and gun let'em play Coach Tubby that shows up in the non-conference. The stand around and be afraid to make mistakes version that shows up in the Big Ten Conference schedule- no so much.

 

[savagerube]

Savage- are you speaking of the number of top 25 teams faced in the whole schedule or just in the Big Ten?

If my memory serves me right, Tubby has faced 5 ranked teams in non-conference Butler, Louisville, UNC, Duke, Xavier (NCAA Tourney) and Memphis in the non-conference. Monson faced 1 non-conference top 25 team in Georgia.

So even if you adjust the #'s to reflect just B1G competition, Tubby 36, Monson 20.

*This is based off of memory to take it with a grain of salt.

 

[matt]

I need to stay away from this board for awhile...

 

[Dr.Don]

Who cares? Just don't go to this thread if it bothers you that much. Stop being a whiny little b*tch.

Stop the whiny bitching about me bitching. Oh, wait...you can, I can't. got it.

 

[Goldiegirl]

Go Gophers! Go Tubby! Keep fighting! It's a tough conference and play smart !Hang in there! It is time to be supportive, I definitely do not want most of you to be my ships captain because you will be the first one off the boat when it's going down. I am sticking around and handing out life preservers .