Had a few beers with an SEC referee

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touchdownvikings

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Sunday afternoon I was hanging out with a friend here: https://www.houseofbrewstampa.com/

My friend and I ended up meeting a guy at the bar who was an SEC referee (this fact came out while we were discussing a totally different topic). Anyhow, for what it's worth, I thought GH'ers might find these revelations interesting and/or bullsh!t, in some instances:

(1) Said that the behavior of a coach has no effect whatsoever. Not one call changes because of ranting/stomping/etc. Said that most coaches talked to him but really didn't yell - said that was rare.

(2) Absolutely denied that there was such a thing as a "make up call." Said he never did that one time, and didn't know anyone who did. They're just not a thing.

(3) Openly admitted that if a foul could be called on potentially plural players, he'd select the least "famous" player. Said that was common practice. Popular players were given breaks to remain in the game - good for the NCAA.

(4) Said that the NCAA emphasizes bringing quantity of fouls on each team to parity. He said they tell the referees to do everything in their power to "even up" the fouls. (Also said that sometimes the framework of a game just didn't allow for that.)

There's more, but I'll leave it here for now.

Cheers!
 

Yikes! Hope his description is not true.
 


touchdownvikings said:
Sunday afternoon I was hanging out with a friend here: https://www.houseofbrewstampa.com/

My friend and I ended up meeting a guy at the bar who was an SEC referee (this fact came out while we were discussing a totally different topic). Anyhow, for what it's worth, I thought GH'ers might find these revelations interesting and/or bullsh!t, in some instances:

(1) Said that the behavior of a coach has no effect whatsoever. Not one call changes because of ranting/stomping/etc. Said that most coaches talked to him but really didn't yell - said that was rare.

(2) Absolutely denied that there was such a thing as a "make up call." Said he never did that one time, and didn't know anyone who did. They're just not a thing.

(3) Openly admitted that if a foul could be called on potentially plural players, he'd select the least "famous" player. Said that was common practice. Popular players were given breaks to remain in the game - good for the NCAA.

(4) Said that the NCAA emphasizes bringing quantity of fouls on each team to parity. He said they tell the referees to do everything in their power to "even up" the fouls. (Also said that sometimes the framework of a game just didn't allow for that.)

There's more, but I'll leave it here for now.

Cheers!
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Did he opine on whose the coolest and least coolest coaches in his league?
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Did he opine on whose the coolest and least coolest coaches in his league?
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That topic didn't come up - mostly because my friend and I were hanging there while my wife was getting her nails done, and we were therefore on a timeframe. Laugh if you must!

A couple of other topics:

-He told a story of getting an "emergency call" to ref an NBA exhibition event. He was pulled aside and told not to call traveling (he had just called it), and was further told "this is the NBA - it's entertainment - defense is not allowed." Swear to God.

-Told me that in the women's league, the officials literally just watch the ball and can't officiate for sh!t. Said that they're miles off from getting actual, legit officiating there.

I've got more. :)
 


touchdownvikings said:
That topic didn't come up - mostly because my friend and I were hanging there while my wife was getting her nails done, and we were therefore on a timeframe. Laugh if you must!

A couple of other topics:

-He told a story of getting an "emergency call" to ref an NBA exhibition event. He was pulled aside and told not to call traveling (he had just called it), and was further told "this is the NBA - it's entertainment - defense is not allowed." Swear to God.

-Told me that in the women's league, the officials literally just watch the ball and can't officiate for sh!t. Said that they're miles off from getting actual, legit officiating there.

I've got more. :)
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Txs. Keep ‘em coming please, tidbits are the best😃
 

Good stuff, thanks for sharing.

Go Gophers!!
 

As a coach, I agree with 1 through 3 and absolutely know that with some refs 4 is a thing. I promise: You play great team defense, with an emphasis of not fouling, to keep the other team off the line and if fouls are 6 to 1...they'll soon be much closer. You gotta make your players aware when you are at that point in the game, as best you can....any swipes, block attempts, taking charges are gonna be fouls.

That is absolutely an area where if you have established a relationship with refs you can say...hey, we're attacking the basket, we emphasize not fouling and these guys are hacking away...the fouls should be 25 to 1? Often they'll agree and not even things up, just to do so for appearance sake. Problem is the crowd and the other coach somehow ignore what is happening and truly think there is some law of the game the fouls are supposed to be even. And the ref is saying: maybe there really is. 100% it happens often.
 
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Man I couldn't be a ref. I would actively ref against the ref throwing a fit. Fran Mc? Pitino? Nate Oats? They wouldn't want me. Refs making the games closer, well yeah we saw North Carolina vs Baylor. Make up calls? He might not personally do it, but I'm sure many refs do
 




You do know it is a common prank to pretend to be someone else at a bar, right? I used to travel with a guy that told people he was a scout for kid athletes. Get an early lead on young players by scouting games. He would just make it all up, kind of like the draft performance bit on the radio.
 

My conversations with basketball refs over the years ( in most cases 40 minutes after a game, when all we game workers are leaving the gym) have a pretty common theme. A) You could honestly call multiple fouls and/or violations on every single half-court possession. B) Make up calls are always a bad idea, don't be tempted. C) We miss calls, we're human. But in the moment, we're 100% sure we made the correct call. D) Fouls are all about preventing an unfair advantage for one player over another via a rules violation. To me, that mostly explains some of the collisions we see in a game with a no-call.

Appreciate Spotted Muskies thoughts on officiating games involving coaches that are always yelling. I think that a lot of people are that way. Officials, especially at the higher levels, are generally able to ignore that unless it becomes personal, and not be affected by it. Lets face it, the guy who was in their face 2 weeks ago, might be asking about how the family is doing before tonights game. Obviously, there are probably some exceptions, but generally, refs are really trying to be as fair as they can and don't actually care who wins the game.

My reaction to people who excessively complain about officials is to go out and do it for 3-4 years, so you understand how difficult it is, and see if you feel the same way.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Sunday afternoon I was hanging out with a friend here: https://www.houseofbrewstampa.com/

My friend and I ended up meeting a guy at the bar who was an SEC referee (this fact came out while we were discussing a totally different topic). Anyhow, for what it's worth, I thought GH'ers might find these revelations interesting and/or bullsh!t, in some instances:

(1) Said that the behavior of a coach has no effect whatsoever. Not one call changes because of ranting/stomping/etc. Said that most coaches talked to him but really didn't yell - said that was rare.

(2) Absolutely denied that there was such a thing as a "make up call." Said he never did that one time, and didn't know anyone who did. They're just not a thing.

(3) Openly admitted that if a foul could be called on potentially plural players, he'd select the least "famous" player. Said that was common practice. Popular players were given breaks to remain in the game - good for the NCAA.

(4) Said that the NCAA emphasizes bringing quantity of fouls on each team to parity. He said they tell the referees to do everything in their power to "even up" the fouls. (Also said that sometimes the framework of a game just didn't allow for that.)

There's more, but I'll leave it here for now.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Good stuff. As for 1 and 2, I imagine they don't consciously do those things but I suspect it happens subconsciously to some degree.
 




Yeah sorry I don't buy what this guy is selling. He was either trying to make himself sound better than he is at his job or he is yanking your crank. I have known officials in many sports and they would agree he is full of it.

Again he contradicts himself with 2 and 4. How can you assure things will be even if there are no make up calls? By definition a make up call is trying to offset an earlier call in an effort to even it up.

And your second post leads me to believe he is making crap.
 

Refs have tendencies just like athletes.

Some refs allow more contact; others call a tighter game.

It's up to the Coaches and players to adjust to the refs. If a player does X, and a foul is called, then don't do X again. If they do X again, and another foul is called, that is on the player, not the ref.
see: Towns, Karl-Anthony.......

In my experience with HS refs, I think the good ones are willing to listen to questions from Coaches, but the coaches who just want to yell and scream can hurt their own cause.

refs are human. they have egos, and they don't want to be shown up.
 

Chico Gopher said:
My reaction to people who excessively complain about officials is to go out and do it for 3-4 years, so you understand how difficult it is, and see if you feel the same way.
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Great point. I'll add that basketball is BY FAR the hardest sport to officiate. Nothing even close.
 

Roland Brooks said:
You ask a ref question 1 or 2… What else are they going to say?
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Exactly. Refs are human, so of course 1 and 2 happen. But I wouldn't expect any ref to admit it.
 

Dave H said:
So they dont do make up calls but are supposed to keep things equal? Yeah I call BS...
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I completely agree, some guy knocking back a few brews never revise the truth, just like if I read it in the internet so it must be true…. I call a big BS also…
 

Dave H said:
Yeah sorry I don't buy what this guy is selling. He was either trying to make himself sound better than he is at his job or he is yanking your crank. I have known officials in many sports and they would agree he is full of it.

Again he contradicts himself with 2 and 4. How can you assure things will be even if there are no make up calls? By definition a make up call is trying to offset an earlier call in an effort to even it up.

And your second post leads me to believe he is making crap.
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Although I am only quoting Dave H, this is in reply to several posters who questioned the "no make up calls" assertion, and pointed out the incongruity between that claim and his professed willingness to "even up" fouls.

I'm in your camp when it comes to make up calls. I pushed this guy on it pretty hard, told him that I've watched plenty of basketball and I KNOW what I'm seeing, and so does everyone else. He wouldn't budge on that topic. He came off as nearly professing unfamiliarity with the concept - almost as if he not only denied having done such a thing, but that he had never even heard of such a thing as a possibility. I don't buy it, but that's his position.

As for evening up fouls, he said that the coaches KNOW they have been mandated to even up fouls, and press him on it when the fouls become imbalanced. So evidently, it's not some secret. I guess the NCAA discusses topics of officiating emphasis with the coaches and they know exactly what the mandates are. He didn't say that to me (I didn't ask), I am surmising that part. ...That said, he told me that he wouldn't just "invent" fouls, and that sometimes the action of the game really only allowed for an imbalanced foul distribution. In his head, this probably supports his "no make up calls" position.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Although I am only quoting Dave H, this is in reply to several posters who questioned the "no make up calls" assertion, and pointed out the incongruity between that claim and his professed willingness to "even up" fouls.

I'm in your camp when it comes to make up calls. I pushed this guy on it pretty hard, told him that I've watched plenty of basketball and I KNOW what I'm seeing, and so does everyone else. He wouldn't budge on that topic. He came off as nearly professing unfamiliarity with the concept - almost as if he not only denied having done such a thing, but that he had never even heard of such a thing as a possibility. I don't buy it, but that's his position.

As for evening up fouls, he said that the coaches KNOW they have been mandated to even up fouls, and press him on it when the fouls become imbalanced. So evidently, it's not some secret. I guess the NCAA discusses topics of officiating emphasis with the coaches and they know exactly what the mandates are. He didn't say that to me (I didn't ask), I am surmising that part. ...That said, he told me that he wouldn't just "invent" fouls, and that sometimes the action of the game really only allowed for an imbalanced foul distribution. In his head, this probably supports his "no make up calls" position.
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Ya, I coached a lot of years. 99% of experienced refs don't care who wins. They are impartial. Like SON said, you have to adjust to how they call the game. All refs have their style. You gotta figure it out. Preferably, you are able to identify how refs call games and schedule them for your home games accordingly.
I think makeup calls and evening up the foulls are two different topics. You can bet a coach is going to point out his perception of a makeup call against his team...refs don't want that rep.
Again, they don't care who wins.
None of this applies to AAU refs...they are generally bad to begin with and by their sixth game of
the day add ornery, lazy and so bad you better have more talent and stronger guys.
 

60's Guy said:
Ya, I coached a lot of years. 99% of experienced refs don't care who wins. They are impartial. Like SON said, you have to adjust to how they call the game. All refs have their style. You gotta figure it out. Preferably, you are able to identify how refs call games and schedule them for your home games accordingly.
I think makeup calls and evening up the foulls are two different topics. You can bet a coach is going to point out his perception of a makeup call against his team...refs don't want that rep.
Again, they don't care who wins.
None of this applies to AAU refs...they are generally bad to begin with and by their sixth game of
the day add ornery, lazy and so bad you better have more talent and stronger guys.
Click to expand...
I have a question about scheduling officials. Am I wrong in the belief that individual college teams do not actually schedule which officials show up for their games? I always thought the league or conference was in charge of that and tried to rotate a variety of officials as much as possible to avoid the same crew always being assigned to the same teams and venues.
 

Chico Gopher said:
I have a question about scheduling officials. Am I wrong in the belief that individual college teams do not actually schedule which officials show up for their games? I always thought the league or conference was in charge of that and tried to rotate a variety of officials as much as possible to avoid the same crew always being assigned to the same teams and venues.
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College basketball officials are definitely assigned by the conference.

I believe high school basketball officials are assigned by a regional assignment coordinator.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Good stuff. As for 1 and 2, I imagine they don't consciously do those things but I suspect it happens subconsciously to some degree.
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Stole my post. Human nature is human nature. Especially if the complaining coach is right about what he's complaining about.
 

tjgopher said:
I believe high school basketball officials are assigned by a regional assignment coordinator.
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Unless something has changed in recent years, they are simply hired by the home school.
 

Regarding make up calls, the refs 100% do it in the NBA. It's an irrelevant question in college ball because the refs call so many fouls that you can't discern the difference.
 


Did you tell him to stay the hell out of the team huddles and quit talking to players and coaches? Any time I see an official talking to coaches on the sideline or to players at the free throw line, I think nefarious things.. Not good.
 

A few years ago I met a long-since retired MLB ump, and he was a completely open page on his days of being an umpire and how they could control the outcomes of games. One of tidbits that I found interesting is that if a player in his words, "tried to embarrass" an ump by making a scene over a bad call, the umps would always get even, usually by calling a much wider strike zone when the player came to bat - even if it was in a game weeks later. That was especially true for pitchers that from the mound questioned a strike call - do that and in a critical situation the pitch won't be called a strike. It was okay for the catcher to make a comment but not the pitcher - the difference being the catcher's comment is only heard by the ump, not a show for all the fans. Basically, anytime anyone criticized the umps in a way the fans could see it, they we're going to make that team pay.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Sunday afternoon I was hanging out with a friend here: https://www.houseofbrewstampa.com/

My friend and I ended up meeting a guy at the bar who was an SEC referee (this fact came out while we were discussing a totally different topic). Anyhow, for what it's worth, I thought GH'ers might find these revelations interesting and/or bullsh!t, in some instances:

(1) Said that the behavior of a coach has no effect whatsoever. Not one call changes because of ranting/stomping/etc. Said that most coaches talked to him but really didn't yell - said that was rare.

(2) Absolutely denied that there was such a thing as a "make up call." Said he never did that one time, and didn't know anyone who did. They're just not a thing.

(3) Openly admitted that if a foul could be called on potentially plural players, he'd select the least "famous" player. Said that was common practice. Popular players were given breaks to remain in the game - good for the NCAA.

(4) Said that the NCAA emphasizes bringing quantity of fouls on each team to parity. He said they tell the referees to do everything in their power to "even up" the fouls. (Also said that sometimes the framework of a game just didn't allow for that.)

There's more, but I'll leave it here for now.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
As for point 1-2, wouldn't expect him to admit that, but most coaches that yell know the call won't change, it's more of a long game, working the refs to get the call later, more of an attack on that subconscious. Izzo good at it, Bo might have been the GOAT at it
 

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