Grantland: Losers of the College Basketball Coaching Carousel

[Gopher07]

Ouch.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...s-of-the-college-basketball-coaching-carousel

1. Minnesota

Minnesota’s a nice gig. Big Ten school, not in the middle of nowhere, and with a football program trapped under the glass ceiling of the Music City Bowl, it’s not a Penn State or Nebraska situation where even acknowledging the existence of a men’s basketball team feels like an attempt to make a tectonic shift in the culture. And moreover, the Gophers have experienced recent success. Are they ever a threat for an NCAA title? No, but they certainly won’t embarrass the conference in the ACC—Big Ten challenge, and they’ll be in the hunt for a decent tournament seed, provided they pull off their typical 20-12-ish sort of year. It's a job that should attract quality candidates.

But in the current state, where it’s the top job available? You start to realize not being overtly bad isn’t the same as being attractive — even eschewing the racial implications of the “Great White North,” the Timberwolves have proven paying people literally millions of dollars to play basketball in Minnesota is a tough sell. And yet, by being located in Minneapolis, UM is the most “urban” of the Big Ten schools and has the least enthusiastic campus culture. And quick, who are the most successful Golden Gophers on the pro level? I bet you panicked and immediately shouted out “Voshon Lenard.”

Unfortunately, the Gophers’ desperation is one that a lot of people can empathize with, stuck in this strange limbo where even the slightest misalignment between expectations and reality only lead to disappointment — it’s not a destination job, but it’s hard to imagine it being a stepping stone to something bigger. For one thing, it hasn’t been for the likes of Dan Monson and Tubby Smith. Shaka Smart, Andy Enfield, Gregg Marshall, and ... um ... Flip Saunders ... what’s in it for them? Well, the ability to use the Gophers as leverage for higher salary demands. But otherwise, let’s just hope that Minnesota realizes it’s a two-way street and that someone just as desperate will put their name out there soon enough. I mean, Isiah Thomas has been awfully quiet this past couple of weeks.

 

[BarnBoy]

I can't disagree too much.

 

[Gopher Bandanna Guy]

"...the least enthusiastic campus culture." Sheesh. Has Grantland ever been to Evanston?

That nonsense aside, its too soon to tell if we really end up losers in this coaching search. But if Grantland wants to poke fun at our expense, whatever.

Personally, I put UCLA as the biggest loser in the coaching carosel, seeing that they nabbed probably the biggest d-bag coach who made himself available in Alford. There's a reason IU doesn't come a knockin' for tht guy...

 

[Gopher07]

I can't disagree too much.

Yeah, I really can't either. Seems a pretty fair assessment (apart from maybe the campus life jab); just gotta hope desperation isn't our only hope.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

The truth hurts.

 

[lakesgopher]

"...the least enthusiastic campus culture." Sheesh. Has Grantland ever been to Evanston?

That nonsense aside, its too soon to tell if we really end up losers in this coaching search. But if Grantland wants to poke fun at our expense, whatever.

Personally, I put UCLA as the biggest loser in the coaching carosel, seeing that they nabbed probably the biggest d-bag coach who made himself available in Alford. There's a reason IU doesn't come a knockin' for tht guy...

not sure how anyone can disagree with that?

 

[Gopher07]

not sure how anyone can disagree with that?

...have you been to Evanston??

 

[goldengophers]

Like I said from a sports standpoint, students treat the U like a four year community college.

 

[jmag21]

Teague has bollixed this up completely, in my opinion. Whether or not the unknown we eventually get ends up being a good coach may matter in the long run, but in the short term, recruits are reading nothing but stuff like this, and reports about good coaches and even mediocre coaches turning us down by the truckload. No matter how this ends up, Teague has not controlled the message. Unfortunately, it's looking more and more to me like Teague's decision to fire Tubby (which I wasn't in favor of, but didn't absolutely hate at the time) has been a gigantic mistake.

 

[lakesgopher]

...have you been to Evanston??

yes, and i have been to dinkytown...cant say there was a telling difference in how students and fans approached the game

 

[lakesgopher]

Like I said from a sports standpoint, students treat the U like a four year community college.

1 thing i very much agree with you on

 

[Gopher07]

yes, and i have been to dinkytown...cant say there was a telling difference in how students and fans approached the game

Must have had totally different experiences then. Been to football and basketball in Evanston, and there is jack *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# around their stadium/arena (even within reasonable walking distance), they bus students to games, etc. At least at the U there are several vibrant areas that are very student-dominated (Dinkytown, Stadium Village, 7 Corners) on weekend nights. Not sure Northwestern can even say that.

w/r/t sports, I agree the sentiments are similar between the two schools (except for hockey at the U). But as a whole, campus (and immediate surrounding area) life? I have to give it to Minnesota.

 

[westcoastgopher11]

If we are comparing our campus experience to Northwestern we've already lost.

Its a premature take for sure but accurate in many ways.

 

[lugnard]

Like I said from a sports standpoint, students treat the U like a four year community college.

In fairness - U has some of the highest full time commuter, working student and older student populations nationally. Its a bit harder to get all fired up for a Tuesday evening game when you are working thirty hours a week, taking 18 credits and drive 30 plus minutes each way. Or if you are 30 plus going back to school [and have a family and job].

I mean Minneapolis isn't Madison or Iowa City. And we aren't private like NW.

It is what it is. I actually think we get damned good fan support all things considered. Give us winners and the place will be rocking - at least those not too exhausted to rock..

 

[KyGopherfan]

Unless Minnesota decides to pour money into the bball program, it'll never be in the top-tier of the B1G, no matter who is the coach. It's ridiculous that players don't have 24 hr access to a gym. No wonder players lagged in their development. And the fact that the coach has to travel on Delta to recruit while Izzo and Matta fly on private jets is ridiculous. Tubby sure had his faults, but Minnesota certainly didn't make anything easier and hamstrung a lot of efforts for sure.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Teague has bollixed this up completely, in my opinion. Whether or not the unknown we eventually get ends up being a good coach may matter in the long run, but in the short term, recruits are reading nothing but stuff like this, and reports about good coaches and even mediocre coaches turning us down by the truckload. No matter how this ends up, Teague has not controlled the message. Unfortunately, it's looking more and more to me like Teague's decision to fire Tubby (which I wasn't in favor of, but didn't absolutely hate at the time) has been a gigantic mistake.

How does he “control the message” in this case? How does he control what people write and say and tweet? By answering every rumor? By making some generic “all is well” statement? If he tries to respond to every rumor, he won’t have time for anything else. If he responds to some rumors, then people will read something into those he doesn’t address. “Hmm, Teague issued a statement saying Fred Hoiberg was never offered the job, but he hasn’t said anything about the FGCU guy, so he must have turned us down.”

If the search is going well, he has no reason to say anything. Some of the people contacted in a search like this require discretion. Others have reason to exaggerate what happened for their own benefit. If the search is going poorly, Teague only makes it worse by confirming it during the process. Better to make the hire and put the best spin possible on it. Would you rather that he say something like Joel Maturi and suggest that people are going to be surpised by the type of coaches interested in the job?

Let’s say tonight he issues a statement that says “We are working through the hiring process and are pleased with the reception we are receiving. We have spoken to numerous people for their input and to gauge their interest in the position. No one has been offered the job and we still have more people to contact. We are confident that we will make a hire at the appropriate time who will be the best fit for the short and long term needs of the University of Minnesota.” What good does that do? Would that really make anyone feel better about the process? The people who have faith in Teague to make the hire already trust that he will achieve a good result. Those who want to wait and see who gets the job will continue to wait and see. Those who believe it’s a giant CF aren’t going to be swayed by the statement.

 

[jmag21]

How does he “control the message” in this case? How does he control what people write and say and tweet? By answering every rumor? By making some generic “all is well” statement? If he tries to respond to every rumor, he won’t have time for anything else. If he responds to some rumors, then people will read something into those he doesn’t address. “Hmm, Teague issued a statement saying Fred Hoiberg was never offered the job, but he hasn’t said anything about the FGCU guy, so he must have turned us down.”

If the search is going well, he has no reason to say anything. Some of the people contacted in a search like this require discretion. Others have reason to exaggerate what happened for their own benefit. If the search is going poorly, Teague only makes it worse by confirming it during the process. Better to make the hire and put the best spin possible on it. Would you rather that he say something like Joel Maturi and suggest that people are going to be surpised by the type of coaches interested in the job?

Let’s say tonight he issues a statement that says “We are working through the hiring process and are pleased with the reception we are receiving. We have spoken to numerous people for their input and to gauge their interest in the position. No one has been offered the job and we still have more people to contact. We are confident that we will make a hire at the appropriate time who will be the best fit for the short and long term needs of the University of Minnesota.” What good does that do? Would that really make anyone feel better about the process? The people who have faith in Teague to make the hire already trust that he will achieve a good result. Those who want to wait and see who gets the job will continue to wait and see. Those who believe it’s a giant CF aren’t going to be swayed by the statement.

I think that such a statement would actually be quite helpful. Go to the media privately to shoot down some of the false offers (if they truly are false). So then Doogie can do the "sources tell me that so and so never had an offer in hand" thing. At this point, though, in the eyes of the public, the Gophers have been trying to get anybody to take the job, and nobody's interested, and we're down to the bottom of the barrel. Whether or not that's true, that's the perception. It's certainly my perception. That can be solved with judicious statements, on or off the record, to media types. You don't need to drop specific names, you don't need to rule out specific names on the record. Just don't go completely dark.

 

[lakesgopher]

Must have had totally different experiences then. Been to football and basketball in Evanston, and there is jack *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# around their stadium/arena (even within reasonable walking distance), they bus students to games, etc. At least at the U there are several vibrant areas that are very student-dominated (Dinkytown, Stadium Village, 7 Corners) on weekend nights. Not sure Northwestern can even say that.

w/r/t sports, I agree the sentiments are similar between the two schools (except for hockey at the U). But as a whole, campus (and immediate surrounding area) life? I have to give it to Minnesota.

I guess I was referring to student involvement when it comes to games before, during, and after. I have been to 6 big ten schools for football games and so far Minnesota is easily the worst atmosphere. In game atmosphere Minnesota is one of the worst in the country, never heard so many away fans talk about minny fans telling them to sit down or be quiet...embarrassing

With that said the Syracuse game was the best I have been to at tcf

 

[ecoperson]

I think that such a statement would actually be quite helpful. Go to the media privately to shoot down some of the false offers (if they truly are false). So then Doogie can do the "sources tell me that so and so never had an offer in hand" thing. At this point, though, in the eyes of the public, the Gophers have been trying to get anybody to take the job, and nobody's interested, and we're down to the bottom of the barrel. Whether or not that's true, that's the perception. It's certainly my perception. That can be solved with judicious statements, on or off the record, to media types. You don't need to drop specific names, you don't need to rule out specific names on the record. Just don't go completely dark.

I have been following collegiate sports for decades and I have never heard an athletic director provide status updates on their search for a coach. These searches are always veiled in secrecy. Teague will have the last laugh when the truth comes out.

 

[supadupafly]

Ouch.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...s-of-the-college-basketball-coaching-carousel

the guy who wrote this (ian cohen) is a music writer for pitchfork and a part time contributor to grantland. hence, i put about 1/10000th of an iota in his personal OPINION and his knowledge of the U of M or sports in general. the guy' stuff is nothing more than most writers/reporters/columnists is: jaded, sarcastic, smug, snarky little pricks with a personal axe to grind or a personality they are trying to build.

but thanks for posting a whole new thread for this whopper of an opinion piece.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

I think that such a statement would actually be quite helpful. Go to the media privately to shoot down some of the false offers (if they truly are false). So then Doogie can do the "sources tell me that so and so never had an offer in hand" thing. At this point, though, in the eyes of the public, the Gophers have been trying to get anybody to take the job, and nobody's interested, and we're down to the bottom of the barrel. Whether or not that's true, that's the perception. It's certainly my perception. That can be solved with judicious statements, on or off the record, to media types. You don't need to drop specific names, you don't need to rule out specific names on the record. Just don't go completely dark.

So you want Teague to play the same game the agents play? And to trust our media to protect what he wants anonymous and to keep names out of it? Is it any surprise to anyone that Chad Hartman and Dan Bareiro were the ones last week who first tweeted that Flip was the leading candidate? That Dan Cole reported on his air that his sources told him Flip was the target? Since when do any of them have a reliable source at the University of Minnesota? They all know and like Flip. Do you think their source was someone close to Flip or someone close to the AD? How does Teague address that without getting into specifics? How does he convince agents and coaches that they can trust him to be discrete if he’s leaking information that only he and his staff know?

Maybe I am missing what you are asking for him to do. Can you give me a hypothetical that would reassure you?

 

[supadupafly]

So you want Teague to play the same game the agents play? And to trust our media to protect what he wants anonymous and to keep names out of it? Is it any surprise to anyone that Chad Hartman and Dan Bareiro were the ones last week who first tweeted that Flip was the leading candidate? That Dan Cole reported on his air that his sources told him Flip was the target? Since when do any of them have a reliable source at the University of Minnesota? They all know and like Flip. Do you think their source was someone close to Flip or someone close to the AD? How does Teague address that without getting into specifics? How does he convince agents and coaches that they can trust him to be discrete if he’s leaking information that only he and his staff know?

Maybe I am missing what you are asking for him to do. Can you give me a hypothetical that would reassure you?

Couldn't have said it any better. Well stated.

 

[jmag21]

So you want Teague to play the same game the agents play? And to trust our media to protect what he wants anonymous and to keep names out of it? Is it any surprise to anyone that Chad Hartman and Dan Bareiro were the ones last week who first tweeted that Flip was the leading candidate? That Dan Cole reported on his air that his sources told him Flip was the target? Since when do any of them have a reliable source at the University of Minnesota? They all know and like Flip. Do you think their source was someone close to Flip or someone close to the AD? How does Teague address that without getting into specifics? How does he convince agents and coaches that they can trust him to be discrete if he’s leaking information that only he and his staff know?

Maybe I am missing what you are asking for him to do. Can you give me a hypothetical that would reassure you?

Look, my major concern is the coaches that aren't interested. The ones that are upgrades over Tubby seem to have been exhausted. I think it's practically inevitable at this point that we'll end up with a small-major coach or an assistant that will be forced to build a reputation. That puts paid to our chances of nabbing any more than one of the big three recruits. So, there's that. But my concerns about the messaging are simple. The message is very bad for the Gophers. The AD has the ability to influence this message. I don't know how he could have done it better. I'm not an AD. All I know is this situation is turning poisonous. And it's on Teague's watch.

 

[bigticket1]

the guy who wrote this (ian cohen) is a music writer for pitchfork and a part time contributor to grantland. hence, i put about 1/10000th of an iota in his personal OPINION and his knowledge of the U of M or sports in general. the guy' stuff is nothing more than most writers/reporters/columnists is: jaded, sarcastic, smug, snarky little pricks with a personal axe to grind or a personality they are trying to build.

but thanks for posting a whole new thread for this whopper of an opinion piece.

I realize it's going back aways , but I think Mychal Thompson and Kevin McHale might disagree with the Voshon Leonard comment.

 

[goldengophers]

the guy who wrote this (ian cohen) is a music writer for pitchfork and a part time contributor to grantland. hence, i put about 1/10000th of an iota in his personal OPINION and his knowledge of the U of M or sports in general. the guy' stuff is nothing more than most writers/reporters/columnists is: jaded, sarcastic, smug, snarky little pricks with a personal axe to grind or a personality they are trying to build.

but thanks for posting a whole new thread for this whopper of an opinion piece.

Not everything has to be an intimate understanding of every detail of a program to be correct.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Look, my major concern is the coaches that aren't interested. The ones that are upgrades over Tubby seem to have been exhausted. I think it's practically inevitable at this point that we'll end up with a small-major coach or an assistant that will be forced to build a reputation. That puts paid to our chances of nabbing any more than one of the big three recruits. So, there's that. But my concerns about the messaging are simple. The message is very bad for the Gophers. The AD has the ability to influence this message. I don't know how he could have done it better. I'm not an AD. All I know is this situation is turning poisonous. And it's on Teague's watch.

I am not trying to be disrespectful of you or anyone else who feels the need for more information, but I read this as “I am worried that this looks bad and want to feel better!” I still don’t see how Teague does what you are asking without providing real information and I fully respect and support his decision not to do so. I don’t blame him for the conduct of others when neither you nor I have any idea how he could fix it.

 

[march madness]

I realize it's going back aways , but I think Mychal Thompson and Kevin McHale might disagree with the Voshon Leonard comment.

Exactly. Other than Isiah it's not like Indiana was an NBA training ground in years past. I don't think Wisconsin had done much in that area either. Purdue, big dog is about it. Iowa? BJ? Most of the big name big ten guys in the nba are from decades ago. Lately they seem to come from Ohio St. as they are the ones who get a mcdonalds all american almost every year.

I don't care about the NBA but high school top 50 players do. Zeller, Oladipo, Burke, and Harris should all be lottery picks. Payne, Hardaway, Robinson, McGary, Thomas, Ross, Dre, Dekker, Hammonds, should eventually be first ronders. Things are looking up for the big ten in that regard.

 

[Gopher Bandanna Guy]

I guess I was referring to student involvement when it comes to games before, during, and after. I have been to 6 big ten schools for football games and so far Minnesota is easily the worst atmosphere. In game atmosphere Minnesota is one of the worst in the country, never heard so many away fans talk about minny fans telling them to sit down or be quiet...embarrassing

With that said the Syracuse game was the best I have been to at tcf

Apparently none of the 6 Big Ten football games you attended were in Bloomington, Evanston, West Lafayette, or Champaign. I've been to all of these places in the last 5 years, and none of them were any better 'campus enthusiasm-wise' than the U in the TCF Bank Stadium era. IU was especially apathatic, considering they were 7-1 when we rolled into town, and their stadium was half full, on a warm sunny day. Illinois had a nice tailgate scene, but nothing else. Northwestern has the lame-o 'Wildcat Alley' attended by approximately 40 people including the marching band. And Purdue had the tailgate lots way too far away from the stadium. Yes, we're in the bottom half of the Big Ten when it comes to this aspect campus life, but we are certainly not the worst.

 

[fryguy22]

Apparently none of the 6 Big Ten football games you attended were in Bloomington, Evanston, West Lafayette, or Champaign. I've been to all of these places in the last 5 years, and none of them were any better 'campus enthusiasm-wise' than the U in the TCF Bank Stadium era. IU was especially apathatic, considering they were 7-1 when we rolled into town, and their stadium was half full, on a warm sunny day. Illinois had a nice tailgate scene, but nothing else. Northwestern has the lame-o 'Wildcat Alley' attended by approximately 40 people including the marching band. And Purdue had the tailgate lots way too far away from the stadium. Yes, we're in the bottom half of the Big Ten when it comes to this aspect campus life, but we are certainly not the worst.

Agree with this; in addition, why does "campus culture" suddenly only mean "football atmosphere"? The U has great Greek Life, house parties, events and things to do in Dinkytown, or at CMU if you prefer a quiet weekend night, access to downtown bars, pro sports, etc. To say the "campus culture" is the worst is laughable.

 

[fmlizard]

Anyone who thinks our sports-related campus culture isn't at best 11th in the conference is deluding themselves. Living in the TC is one of the best in the B1G, but when it comes to a passionate sports fan base we are at best a small tick above Northwestern. That said, there is potential if you give people anything at all to cheer about - see the hockey riots of 02-03 for proof.

There's a reason why every B1G school has 5-10 bars devoted to them in the conference melting pot of Chicago except for Minnesota, which has 1 very small and sparsely attended one. We got kicked out of the larger one next door years ago when 4 people showed for the Iowa game, and 2 were related to a player at the time.