Gophers target: Merrimack transfer Mikey Watkins

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
13,600
Reaction score
8,948
Points
113
Josiah Strong was here on a visit. I don't get where the staff is lazy narrative is coming from. I coach high school ball. This staff is far from lazy they have been connecting with coaches all over. We don't even have a D1 level player for at least 2 or 3 years
Some make the assumption that if a player with local ties doesn't come here it must mean the staff was lazy and didn't do their job. I don't get it but that seems to be the thought process some have decided to go with.
 

GopherPlaya

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
792
Reaction score
527
Points
93
Some make the assumption that if a player with local ties doesn't come here it must mean the staff was lazy and didn't do their job. I don't get it but that seems to be the thought process some have decided to go with.
I just don't understand that thought process. Josiah probably would be here if we didn't sign Cooper. He wants to be a starter. Jones and Walton not considering us would not be a slight on the staff as well. They might just not want to come back to Minnesota
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
13,600
Reaction score
8,948
Points
113
I just don't understand that thought process. Josiah probably would be here if we didn't sign Cooper. He wants to be a starter. Jones and Walton not considering us would not be a slight on the staff as well. They might just not want to come back to Minnesota
Never ceases to amaze me how easy some make recruiting out to be. Fans forget that just because it would be a dream come true for them to get a chance to play for the Gophers that isn't the way all local recruits see things.
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
48,271
Reaction score
9,034
Points
113
I just don't understand that thought process. Josiah probably would be here if we didn't sign Cooper. He wants to be a starter. Jones and Walton not considering us would not be a slight on the staff as well. They might just not want to come back to Minnesota
If he wants to be a starter is there a better high major option than here at this point? How many teams at this level have 3 scholarship guards? I don't think anyone should be guaranteed a starting position. Come in an compete with Carrington/Henley and if you lose the slot, then come off the bench. Akeem Springs did it for Pitino and ended up as a valuable 6th man. I'm sure he wanted to start, but he didn't get to. Losing Strong is no big deal with me.
 

leib0039

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
937
Reaction score
1,300
Points
93
I will just speak for me, I dont want to say we have failed spring recruiting, adding Garcia/Cooper cant be a fail, I think it was more a bummer we didnt keep that momentum going and add a known quantity at the CG spot. I personally don't think any of this has to do with laziness, I think our staff works very hard and turns over every leaf. That said, I guess it doesnt matter to me if they work hard or not, its a results game. If Ben sat at home on his thumbs 90% of days but had player after player coming in and we win, thats fine with me! If he was the hardest working coach in the country and we don't get anyone and stay bottom of the conference then hes a failure in my book. I look at the W's an L's because that to me is all that matters.

And to the point of "none of us know anything about these kids" sure that is true to some extent, but you can project most things. A guy who was 9-3-3 at a low major isnt going to come to the Big 10 and light it up, do I know that for 100% fact, no but its logical. Same with Carrington/Henley, do I know if they will be 5 min and 1ppg or 32 min and 15ppg no i dont but i can project they werent super high end elite prospects so they may have their moments but they will also struggle at times, thus why I still think we have a big hole at veteran SG who can shoot. I hope the FR are that guy, but I also dont want to rely on it and 10 games in realize we might not have a shot at the tourney because of it. I do find it interesting that most people saying "well you dont know anything, Carrington is Mr Bball, he was a the top recruit we have, he is great!" also are never the ones who will admit defeat if he isnt a superstar, because just like the ones of us not 100% sold on those 2 as starters immediately dont know they wont be great, you dont know either, they might be awful.
 


GopherPlaya

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
792
Reaction score
527
Points
93
If he wants to be a starter is there a better high major option than here at this point? How many teams at this level have 3 scholarship guards? I don't think anyone should be guaranteed a starting position. Come in an compete with Carrington/Henley and if you lose the slot, then come off the bench. Akeem Springs did it for Pitino and ended up as a valuable 6th man. I'm sure he wanted to start, but he didn't get to. Losing Strong is no big deal with me.
I mean his remain 5 schools 3 are power 5 and the other was a 6 seed in the tournament
 

BarnBurner

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
17,340
Reaction score
3,049
Points
113
I will just speak for me, I dont want to say we have failed spring recruiting, adding Garcia/Cooper cant be a fail, I think it was more a bummer we didnt keep that momentum going and add a known quantity at the CG spot. I personally don't think any of this has to do with laziness, I think our staff works very hard and turns over every leaf. That said, I guess it doesnt matter to me if they work hard or not, its a results game. If Ben sat at home on his thumbs 90% of days but had player after player coming in and we win, thats fine with me! If he was the hardest working coach in the country and we don't get anyone and stay bottom of the conference then hes a failure in my book. I look at the W's an L's because that to me is all that matters.

And to the point of "none of us know anything about these kids" sure that is true to some extent, but you can project most things. A guy who was 9-3-3 at a low major isnt going to come to the Big 10 and light it up, do I know that for 100% fact, no but its logical. Same with Carrington/Henley, do I know if they will be 5 min and 1ppg or 32 min and 15ppg no i dont but i can project they werent super high end elite prospects so they may have their moments but they will also struggle at times, thus why I still think we have a big hole at veteran SG who can shoot. I hope the FR are that guy, but I also dont want to rely on it and 10 games in realize we might not have a shot at the tourney because of it. I do find it interesting that most people saying "well you dont know anything, Carrington is Mr Bball, he was a the top recruit we have, he is great!" also are never the ones who will admit defeat if he isnt a superstar, because just like the ones of us not 100% sold on those 2 as starters immediately dont know they wont be great, you dont know either, they might be awful.
Wins and losses. Hmmmmm
 

Cayman

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Messages
4,096
Reaction score
578
Points
113
It's not laziness. This staff has decided that Carrington is going to start next season and it was likely part of their pitch to keep him home. Their recruiting at the guard position has been focused on backups this spring. I don't really agree with it, but it is what it is at this point.

The wording of my post was kind of ambiguous, I agree that it's not laziness. Some people have been bemoaning the decreasing talent level of the transfers we're pursuing, and it's because Watkins and Samuels are being offered to fill a different role than the one that Jones or Walton would be filling, that role being secondary ball handler. They're not just worse versions of Jones or Walton.

Also agree with takes stating that not being able to get every former Minnesota high school player they want is not an indictment on the staff's recruiting ability. I think Jones, Walton, and Strong just want a situation that we can't offer. Jones is interested in a top tier academic institution, the staff doesn't see Walton as a shooting guard, and Walton probably doesn't want to be a backup at the 3, and Strong maybe wants to be a primary ball handler or a starting position, which the staff doesn't see him as, because we already have Cooper for that. And some seem to believe the solution is to just recruit them harder, and make them want something they don't want, but this isn't NCAA Football 2005. Kent State can't lure in the #1 quarterback just by calling him 15 times a day.
 

Bayfieldgopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,290
Reaction score
625
Points
113
The wording of my post was kind of ambiguous, I agree that it's not laziness. Some people have been bemoaning the decreasing talent level of the transfers we're pursuing, and it's because Watkins and Samuels are being offered to fill a different role than the one that Jones or Walton would be filling, that role being secondary ball handler. They're not just worse versions of Jones or Walton.

Also agree with takes stating that not being able to get every former Minnesota high school player they want is not an indictment on the staff's recruiting ability. I think Jones, Walton, and Strong just want a situation that we can't offer. Jones is interested in a top tier academic institution, the staff doesn't see Walton as a shooting guard, and Walton probably doesn't want to be a backup at the 3, and Strong maybe wants to be a primary ball handler or a starting position, which the staff doesn't see him as, because we already have Cooper for that. And some seem to believe the solution is to just recruit them harder, and make them want something they don't want, but this isn't NCAA Football 2005. Kent State can't lure in the #1 quarterback just by calling him 15 times a day.

A post I made prior to Cooper/Garcia coming on board that is still fitting after reading all the back and forth posts, including myself, about forming next years roster.

"Come on Ben. Do your job! This GH crowd is really getting anxious and very nervous. To the point of needing psych help and a boatload of meds to maintain our sanity. Unveal your findings stat so we can stop this craziness, angst and gnashing of teeth and get on with all the dissecting, over analyzing, criticizing and complaining about all the new Gophers. Or maybe even get excited and be happy about the newcomers.

Its what we do."
 









Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
16,272
Reaction score
7,361
Points
113
Lol. I love how confident some posters are in their evaluations of players they know almost nothing about.
Like the people (like me) who think Payne is going to be good? Or does this just apply to any opinion in disagreement with the staff?
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
13,600
Reaction score
8,948
Points
113
Like the people (like me) who think Payne is going to be good? Or does this just apply to any opinion in disagreement with the staff?
Was just a general throw away comment about these transfer portal threads where we have fans speaking confidently about which players we should or should not be recruiting. Players they knew next to nothing about before they went into the portal and they are basing their opinion on stats and a few random clips they can find on youtube and trusting their evaluation over that of the coaches.

Same thing that happens in recruiting high school players (especially football) when fans trust the recruiting sites more than the coaches when it comes to evaluating players.

There is a distinction between just expressing an opinion and thinking you know better than the trained professionals (and to be fair most posters get that) but I am not diving down that rabbit hole... :)
 

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
16,272
Reaction score
7,361
Points
113
Was just a general throw away comment about these transfer portal threads where we have fans speaking confidently about which players we should or should not be recruiting. Players they knew next to nothing about before they went into the portal and they are basing their opinion on stats and a few random clips they can find on youtube and trusting their evaluation over that of the coaches.

Same thing that happens in recruiting high school players (especially football) when fans trust the recruiting sites more than the coaches when it comes to evaluating players.

There is a distinction between just expressing an opinion and thinking you know better than the trained professionals (and to be fair most posters get that) but I am not diving down that rabbit hole... :)
But so I’m clear, you’re cool with it if the opinions agree with our staff but if the opinions diverge it’s annoying for you?

We all have opinions on all of the players. Some folks follow the coaching staff’s opinions perfectly (I get that, they are the pros) and some folks occasionally slightly differ. It’s a message board. I’d think those slight differences of opinion would be expected.

Clearly Ben knows more than all of us on this board, so should this site just only talk about the good things?

Does it really show hubris that I’d prefer taking a flyer on a borderline HS recruit than adding samuels or Watkins? I’ve agreed with Ben’s additions to this class throughout, but this one minor difference of opinion bothers folks.
 



Five Toes

Active member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
122
Reaction score
79
Points
28
Never ceases to amaze me how easy some make recruiting out to be. Fans forget that just because it would be a dream come true for them to get a chance to play for the Gophers that isn't the way all local recruits see things.
Also tough to have all the locals who have admired you thru HS possibly see you not live up to their expectations. Tough to be a superstar out of the shoot, at the next level, in front of the people who think I'm incredible.
 

cjbfbp

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
10,342
Reaction score
4,737
Points
113
If he wants to be a starter is there a better high major option than here at this point? How many teams at this level have 3 scholarship guards? I don't think anyone should be guaranteed a starting position. Come in an compete with Carrington/Henley and if you lose the slot, then come off the bench. Akeem Springs did it for Pitino and ended up as a valuable 6th man. I'm sure he wanted to start, but he didn't get to. Losing Strong is no big deal with me.

Like your post but technical correction here: Springs began the year as a 6th man but became the starter by latter January of that season and remained the starter until he was injured in the Big Ten tournament.
 

ecoperson

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,541
Points
113
I will just speak for me, I dont want to say we have failed spring recruiting, adding Garcia/Cooper cant be a fail, I think it was more a bummer we didnt keep that momentum going and add a known quantity at the CG spot. I personally don't think any of this has to do with laziness, I think our staff works very hard and turns over every leaf. That said, I guess it doesnt matter to me if they work hard or not, its a results game. If Ben sat at home on his thumbs 90% of days but had player after player coming in and we win, thats fine with me! If he was the hardest working coach in the country and we don't get anyone and stay bottom of the conference then hes a failure in my book. I look at the W's an L's because that to me is all that matters.

And to the point of "none of us know anything about these kids" sure that is true to some extent, but you can project most things. A guy who was 9-3-3 at a low major isnt going to come to the Big 10 and light it up, do I know that for 100% fact, no but its logical. Same with Carrington/Henley, do I know if they will be 5 min and 1ppg or 32 min and 15ppg no i dont but i can project they werent super high end elite prospects so they may have their moments but they will also struggle at times, thus why I still think we have a big hole at veteran SG who can shoot. I hope the FR are that guy, but I also dont want to rely on it and 10 games in realize we might not have a shot at the tourney because of it. I do find it interesting that most people saying "well you dont know anything, Carrington is Mr Bball, he was a the top recruit we have, he is great!" also are never the ones who will admit defeat if he isnt a superstar, because just like the ones of us not 100% sold on those 2 as starters immediately dont know they wont be great, you dont know either, they might be awful.
We have no idea what Johnson and the coaching staff want. As some have surmised, they may be looking for a particular type of role player and not aiming for another stud guard. Others have proposed that Ben and company are lazy and just don't try hard enough. The truth lies somewhere in between depending on your outlook in life and whether your willingness to be patient.

Optimists are apt to assume the positive until the wheels fall off. Pessimists will never be happy until Johnson is another name in the history books or he wins. The latter type of people will make the former miserable. Apparently, positive people also make negative people miserable. What a big happy family!
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
13,600
Reaction score
8,948
Points
113
We have no idea what Johnson and the coaching staff want. As some have surmised, they may be looking for a particular type of role player and not aiming for another stud guard. Others have proposed that Ben and company are lazy and just don't try hard enough. The truth lies somewhere in between depending on your outlook in life and whether your willingness to be patient.

Optimists are apt to assume the positive until the wheels fall off. Pessimists will never be happy until Johnson is another name in the history books or he wins. The latter type of people will make the former miserable. Apparently, positive people also make negative people miserable. What a big happy family!
Speaking as someone who chooses to try and find the good in things this board has become a pretty crappy place to be around over the past year or so.
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
13,600
Reaction score
8,948
Points
113
But so I’m clear, you’re cool with it if the opinions agree with our staff but if the opinions diverge it’s annoying for you?

We all have opinions on all of the players. Some folks follow the coaching staff’s opinions perfectly (I get that, they are the pros) and some folks occasionally slightly differ. It’s a message board. I’d think those slight differences of opinion would be expected.

Clearly Ben knows more than all of us on this board, so should this site just only talk about the good things?

Does it really show hubris that I’d prefer taking a flyer on a borderline HS recruit than adding samuels or Watkins? I’ve agreed with Ben’s additions to this class throughout, but this one minor difference of opinion bothers folks.
The fact that the one like to your post is Barn Burner should tell you something. Good lord man chill, I wasn't even coming after you or anyone in particular.
 


Hates Monikers

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,718
Reaction score
200
Points
63
I agree, now is not the time to add marginal 4 year development guys. With the transfer portal I think the time for that is diminishing, you don't want to have many of those on the roster anymore.
Sure, if you're looking for a backup guard and you can get a 21-year old with experience in the portal, go for it. My guess is that it's hard to find an older player willing to be a backup, but apparently Samuels is game. We'll see.

Failing that, why not develop a borderline freshman? I know nothing about Dodd, but if the coaches like his game (maybe they don't), there's nothing wrong with having a freshman come in to play six to eight minutes per game and see if he develops into something more. If he doesn't, he probably wouldn't even need a coach to persuade him to leave and get some playing time somewhere else on his own.
 

Bobek

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2021
Messages
59
Reaction score
70
Points
18
It's almost like Luke Loewe "serviceable" level players get you to weakling Wednesday.

We aren't getting anywhere good recruiting this level of player. Disappointing.
Until BJ has some success and the team is on the way up, the low major transfers will likely have 2 or 3 roster spots.
 

USAF

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
5,344
Reaction score
5,819
Points
113
Until BJ has some success and the team is on the way up, the low major transfers will likely have 2 or 3 roster spots.
As I said...disappointing.
 


GopherPlaya

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
792
Reaction score
527
Points
93
I see a roster that has improved at every position over last year including on the bench.
This is why I don't understand freak out. Also, last year's roster construction was filling a bare cupboard. This year we had a decent starting point and upgraded the with Garcia, Cooper & the freshmen. Now we are being concerned by the 11th-13th players which I have not seen any team be successful if they have to rely on players that far down the line. If Johnny Davis got injured last year, Wisconsin's 11th-13th guy wasn't going to salvage the season. Same for Iowa with Murray. Most teams struggle if they lose their core guys due to injury. There isn't a player who will accept an 11th-13th role that will change that. If they wanted that role they wouldn't be in the portal. As far as a developmental prospect, what would be the purpose of adding a kid for that role? They will be disgruntled and leave like Thiam which isn't a good look or we will be stuck with a Mav, Gaston, Freeman type who we will end up running off eventually regardless. It would be better for us to get preferred walk ons for a developmental role and maybe reward them with a scholarship down the line ala Dusty, Jamal Abu-Shamala, Travis Busch
 





Top Bottom