Gopher's Problems are not Institutional

Donate To GopherHole
I

Indi1006

Banned
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
791
Reaction score
0
Points
16
We just have had an absurd run of poor choices and poor hires within our sports department. It's all about making the wrong choices and if we can ever get these right consistently going forward it can turn around, quickly:

Hire Paul Giel as AD. Yes or No
Hire Joe Salem. Yes or No
Move to Metrodome. Yes or No
Hire Gutey to replace Holtz. Yes or No
Hire Maturi. Yes or No.
Extend Mason. Yes or No
Fire Mason a Year after Extension. Yes or No.
Hire Monson. Yes or No.
Extend Monson. Yes or No.
Hire Brew. Yes or No.
Maturi Ignore Need for BB Practice Facility. Yes or No.
Hire Tubby; who's in Full Retreat from KU Fans. Yes or No.
Fire Tubby and Move on. Yes or No.
Hire Whomever Teague Hires. Yes or no.

How things turn out with the last two remains to be seen.

I hope that Teague will be the guy who can lead us to a place where we start making the right decisions on these matters. We've just been mismanaged so bad historically that no instituion could thrive in the aftermath. There is nothing about the Twin Cities or the U of M that puts us in a competitive disadvantage other than the aftermath of decades of the wrong decisions being made on who we hire within our sports department and then having to live with the decisions that they make or their poor performance. We're a world class institution and place to live and we can certainly become a power in football and basketball going forward with the right hires and right decisions going forward. Here's hoping Jerry's and Norwood are the right guys and that our next BB coach is, too.

I personally think that the Maturi hire is the worst decision of the bunch. Other than whatever credit he may deserve for the football stadium, he's been a complete and utter disaster, in my opinion.
 

No longer institutional. I think we've had some pretty horrific Presidents.

We certainly have three guys in Kaler, Teague, and Kill that are decisive. That's so un-Minnesotan it's almost ridiculous. And refreshing.
 

IF you consider all of the situations you listed to have been problematic, what else would you call the situation with the Athletic Department at the U other than an "institutional disaster..." All of the hires you didn't like...all of the ill-timed extensions followed by firings that were incredibly costly you can blame on the administrators...you can blame the abandonment of THE BRICKHOUSE on all kinds of layers of administrative problems...and even include the Board of Regents. In my mind...all of these types of situations are problems of the administrators of the institution we call "...the U..."

You are forgetting the extension of Tubby by our new norwood just before the start of this 2012/2013 season. THAT fits the previous pattern. And, the extension of Pam Borton...CERTAINLY IF Tubby is bought out fired after just being extended...Pam Borton MUST be bought out and fired as well. (Her extension was completed by badger joel macturi under prexy k's watch.)

And WHY was bjm retained at a very large salary AFTER he retired?

The BOARD OF REGENTS have rubber stamped SO many shakey moves by the administrators. Why do they bother to have REGENTS if they NEVER say NO to anything a prexy wants?

No, I'd say virtually all of the problems of the past fifty years in the Athletic Departmernt AND elsewhere at the U of M are directly related to "institutional administrative blunders..." And you have made a pretty good start on your list. Perhaps we are speaking using terms that we are not in agreement with. To me, IF problems are due to administrative blunders that would be an institutional problem. Because the institution is RUN by the prexy and board of regents...supposedly. The prexy and the regents are the highest levels of "management of the institution more commonly referred to here in Minnesota as the "...U. of M..." At least that's my take...

; 0 )
 

Is this hypothetical? If not, I'll give my opinion for what it's worth...

Hire Paul Giel as AD. Yes or No
Yes. The guy was a legend who cared a lot about the U. The role of the AD was much different then, so it would have been a logical choice.

Hire Joe Salem. Yes or No
In hindsight no, but same with Wacker, it would not have seemed a terrible choice at the time.

Move to Metrodome. Yes or No
Absolutely not. Possibly the worst decision other than the Brew hire in the history of the program. That said, they would have had to come up with a lot of money to repair Memorial. I don't know where that would have come from.

Hire Gutey to replace Holtz. Yes or No
I don't remember - did they look for anyone else?

Hire Maturi. Yes or No.
Hell no. This idiot drove the athletic department, except for hockey, into the ground. We'll be paying for his mistakes for years.

Extend Mason. Yes or No
Maybe. Hindsight is 20-20, but Mason for all his faults recruited some pretty good players here.

Fire Mason a Year after Extension. Yes or No.
From a monetary standpoint, no, but by all accounts, Mason's own behavior had a lot to do with his dismissal.

Hire Monson. Yes or No.
Yes. Monson was an up and coming coach from a mid-major, and there weren't a lot of coaches who were going to take the job with the disaster that was left behind after the scandal.

Extend Monson. Yes or No.
No. I can't figure out why they did this, other than Maturi is an idiot.

Hire Brew. Yes or No.
Seriously? This is the worst decision in the history of Gopher sports, bar none.

Maturi Ignore Need for BB Practice Facility. Yes or No.
They would have been far better off putting money towards a BB facility than building a new baseball stadium, but you have to get donor support, and I suspect the money just hasn't been there yet.

Hire Tubby; who's in Full Retreat from KU Fans. Yes or No.
Yes. Tubby was a name coach. No way you don't hire him.

Fire Tubby and Move on. Yes or No.
Yes. Tubby is a good guy, but his teams underachieved, were inconsistent, and often looked lost. That's on the coach.
 

discochris said:
Is this hypothetical? If not, I'll give my opinion for what it's worth...

Hire Paul Giel as AD. Yes or No
Yes. The guy was a legend who cared a lot about the U. The role of the AD was much different then, so it would have been a logical choice.

Hire Joe Salem. Yes or No
In hindsight no, but same with Wacker, it would not have seemed a terrible choice at the time.

Move to Metrodome. Yes or No
Absolutely not. Possibly the worst decision other than the Brew hire in the history of the program. That said, they would have had to come up with a lot of money to repair Memorial. I don't know where that would have come from.

Hire Gutey to replace Holtz. Yes or No
I don't remember - did they look for anyone else?

Hire Maturi. Yes or No.
Hell no. This idiot drove the athletic department, except for hockey, into the ground. We'll be paying for his mistakes for years.

Extend Mason. Yes or No
Maybe. Hindsight is 20-20, but Mason for all his faults recruited some pretty good players here.

Fire Mason a Year after Extension. Yes or No.
From a monetary standpoint, no, but by all accounts, Mason's own behavior had a lot to do with his dismissal.

Hire Monson. Yes or No.
Yes. Monson was an up and coming coach from a mid-major, and there weren't a lot of coaches who were going to take the job with the disaster that was left behind after the scandal.

Extend Monson. Yes or No.
No. I can't figure out why they did this, other than Maturi is an idiot.

Hire Brew. Yes or No.
Seriously? This is the worst decision in the history of Gopher sports, bar none.

Maturi Ignore Need for BB Practice Facility. Yes or No.
They would have been far better off putting money towards a BB facility than building a new baseball stadium, but you have to get donor support, and I suspect the money just hasn't been there yet.

Hire Tubby; who's in Full Retreat from KU Fans. Yes or No.
Yes. Tubby was a name coach. No way you don't hire him.

Fire Tubby and Move on. Yes or No.
Yes. Tubby is a good guy, but his teams underachieved, were inconsistent, and often looked lost. That's on the coach.
Click to expand...

When Holtz left, Giel went after big name coaches, including Fisher DeBerry, a winner at Air Force, who had some interest, and Bobby Ross at Maryland who had enough interest to come to campus where he felt a chill from players and media. This was because a man named Frank Wilderson was undercutting Giel and orchestrating a "players' choice" movement in favor of Gutekunst. DeBerry continued to win at Air Force for many years and Ross went to Georgia Tech, where he won a national championship. Wilderson was a bureaucrat in the sports department.
 


Indi1006 said:
We just have had an absurd run of poor choices and poor hires within our sports department. It's all about making the wrong choices and if we can ever get these right consistently going forward it can turn around, quickly:

Hire Paul Giel as AD. Yes or No
Hire Joe Salem. Yes or No
Move to Metrodome. Yes or No
Hire Gutey to replace Holtz. Yes or No
Hire Maturi. Yes or No.
Extend Mason. Yes or No
Fire Mason a Year after Extension. Yes or No.
Hire Monson. Yes or No.
Extend Monson. Yes or No.
Hire Brew. Yes or No.
Maturi Ignore Need for BB Practice Facility. Yes or No.
Hire Tubby; who's in Full Retreat from KU Fans. Yes or No.
Fire Tubby and Move on. Yes or No.
Hire Whomever Teague Hires. Yes or no.

How things turn out with the last two remains to be seen.

I hope that Teague will be the guy who can lead us to a place where we start making the right decisions on these matters. We've just been mismanaged so bad historically that no instituion could thrive in the aftermath. There is nothing about the Twin Cities or the U of M that puts us in a competitive disadvantage other than the aftermath of decades of the wrong decisions being made on who we hire within our sports department and then having to live with the decisions that they make or their poor performance. We're a world class institution and place to live and we can certainly become a power in football and basketball going forward with the right hires and right decisions going forward. Here's hoping Jerry's and Norwood are the right guys and that our next BB coach is, too.

I personally think that the Maturi hire is the worst decision of the bunch. Other than whatever credit he may deserve for the football stadium, he's been a complete and utter disaster, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Aren't a series of decisions made by administrators pretty much the definition of institutional problems?
 

Indi1006 said:
We just have had an absurd run of poor choices and poor hires within our sports department. It's all about making the wrong choices and if we can ever get these right consistently going forward it can turn around, quickly:

Hire Paul Giel as AD. Yes or No
Hire Joe Salem. Yes or No
Move to Metrodome. Yes or No
Hire Gutey to replace Holtz. Yes or No
Hire Maturi. Yes or No.
Extend Mason. Yes or No
Fire Mason a Year after Extension. Yes or No.
Hire Monson. Yes or No.
Extend Monson. Yes or No.
Hire Brew. Yes or No.
Maturi Ignore Need for BB Practice Facility. Yes or No.
Hire Tubby; who's in Full Retreat from KU Fans. Yes or No.
Fire Tubby and Move on. Yes or No.
Hire Whomever Teague Hires. Yes or no.

How things turn out with the last two remains to be seen.

I hope that Teague will be the guy who can lead us to a place where we start making the right decisions on these matters. We've just been mismanaged so bad historically that no instituion could thrive in the aftermath. There is nothing about the Twin Cities or the U of M that puts us in a competitive disadvantage other than the aftermath of decades of the wrong decisions being made on who we hire within our sports department and then having to live with the decisions that they make or their poor performance. We're a world class institution and place to live and we can certainly become a power in football and basketball going forward with the right hires and right decisions going forward. Here's hoping Jerry's and Norwood are the right guys and that our next BB coach is, too.

I personally think that the Maturi hire is the worst decision of the bunch. Other than whatever credit he may deserve for the football stadium, he's been a complete and utter disaster, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I think that proves they're institutional, the AD will always have to win inspite of the administration, too many people want us to go the way of UIC and drop football
 

I don't want to put words in the original poster's mouth, but I will anyway. I think when he said "institutional", he meant that there is nothing inherently defective with Gopher sports that is outside of the organization's control, such as "we will never succeed because no one wants to play in the cold." Rather, our problems have all been caused by bad decisions made by the people paid to make them, and if they start making better decisions or are replaced with people who do, there is nothing about Minnesota that would prevent us from having successful and competitive sports programs.
 

bemidjigopher said:
too many people want us to go the way of UIC and drop football
Click to expand...

1. UIC doesn't have, and has never had, football.

2. The University of Chicago (who you were presumably speaking of) did drop football and leave the Big Ten athletically in 1946, but they resumed play in 1969 in Division III.
 



Thanks for the clear up couldn't remember if there were two institutions, just went with the one I knew
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
When Holtz left, Giel went after big name coaches, including Fisher DeBerry, a winner at Air Force, who had some interest, and Bobby Ross at Maryland who had enough interest to come to campus where he felt a chill from players and media. This was because a man named Frank Wilderson was undercutting Giel and orchestrating a "players' choice" movement in favor of Gutekunst. DeBerry continued to win at Air Force for many years and Ross went to Georgia Tech, where he won a national championship. Wilderson was a bureaucrat in the sports department.
Click to expand...

Oh, let's name names. I think it was Ray Hitchcock who got up the meeting with Ross and said the players preferred Gutekunst. I've got nothing against Gutekunst and nothing against Hitchcock, but the inmates have been running the asylum for a long time when it comes to U athletics. Clem's antics really led to a lost decade in a lot of ways as the administration had to clear the decks and create greater institutional control.

I always thought Giel was a decent guy who was whip-sawed by the M Club. Salem simply wasn't equipped to succeed at the Big 10 level.

The thing that scares me about all the Shaka Smart talk is that he has pretty much the same resume at Dan Monson. Not saying he wouldn't have more success, but Monson sure looked good on paper. Maturi's biggest mistakes were the extensions and hiring Brewster. The only decisive move Maturi made was firing Mason and while I agreed with that decision, it looks stupid when considering what has happened since. Maturi hires Charlie Strong instead of Brewster and maybe things work out and we don't trough the way we did.
 

Indi1006 said:
We just have had an absurd run of poor choices and poor hires within our sports department. It's all about making the wrong choices and if we can ever get these right consistently going forward it can turn around, quickly:

Hire Paul Giel as AD. Yes or No
Hire Joe Salem. Yes or No
Move to Metrodome. Yes or No
Hire Gutey to replace Holtz. Yes or No
Hire Maturi. Yes or No.
Extend Mason. Yes or No
Fire Mason a Year after Extension. Yes or No.
Hire Monson. Yes or No.
Extend Monson. Yes or No.
Hire Brew. Yes or No.
Maturi Ignore Need for BB Practice Facility. Yes or No.
Hire Tubby; who's in Full Retreat from KU Fans. Yes or No.
Fire Tubby and Move on. Yes or No.
Hire Whomever Teague Hires. Yes or no.

How things turn out with the last two remains to be seen.

I hope that Teague will be the guy who can lead us to a place where we start making the right decisions on these matters. We've just been mismanaged so bad historically that no instituion could thrive in the aftermath. There is nothing about the Twin Cities or the U of M that puts us in a competitive disadvantage other than the aftermath of decades of the wrong decisions being made on who we hire within our sports department and then having to live with the decisions that they make or their poor performance. We're a world class institution and place to live and we can certainly become a power in football and basketball going forward with the right hires and right decisions going forward. Here's hoping Jerry's and Norwood are the right guys and that our next BB coach is, too.

I personally think that the Maturi hire is the worst decision of the bunch. Other than whatever credit he may deserve for the football stadium, he's been a complete and utter disaster, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

You still believe in Santa Claus right?
 

highwayman said:
No longer institutional. I think we've had some pretty horrific Presidents.

We certainly have three guys in Kaler, Teague, and Kill that are decisive. That's so un-Minnesotan it's almost ridiculous. And refreshing.
Click to expand...

Nail on the head right here! Good point and good post Indi1006 but it all comes down to the University President. I like Kaler. When you have dipshoots at the President post you get what you posted above. I really think it comes down to Kaler, and I think he made a good hire in Teague. You need the support from the President and this University finally has that, when it comes to the big time sports. Kaler was smart enough to hire a fundraiser! And yes, who makes good decisions and knows athletics.
 



It all started in 1968. The U hired a Minnesota Alum, one Malcom Moos. With all the things going on at the time, he was clear about one thing. Athletics and the Big 10 should be abandoned and the U should follow the Univeristy of Chicago Model. He had no time, inclination, or funding for Athletics and his vocal opposition brought Paul Giel from WCCO to the Athletic Department. Warmath was under fire and became an Assistant AD. This was the first stage of War between the Athletic Department and The University of Minnesota. Budget cuts in the 1970's and the Reign of Claude Peter McGrath. He took what was antipathy toward athletics to whole new level the Athletic Department was split, to provide women with their own AD. This was classic Roman divide and conquor. Cal Stoll was the coach and he didn't have two medicine balls to rub together. This at a time when College foot ball was exploding. Stadium expansions, extensive weight rooms, lounges for players. Meanwhile one of the craziest moves, Cal Stoll is fired and Joe Salem is brought in. Why? To sell tickets, put more fannies in the seats. And when that didn't charge up the base, the die was cast. McGrath was there and the downtown council with Harvey Mckay and Sid sold Giel on the move to The Dump. McGath, The Regents were in lock step. I surmise by moving the team off campus it was out of sight, out of mind. When the opening season in the dome was a disaster. Harvey recruited Lou Holtz to come in. The base was charged up like never before or since. The Dome was sold out. But somehow, a contract or a failure to communicate with Lou led to Notre Dame and a National Championship. Oh sure I remember Luther Darville. But I also remember Ricky Foggie and Darrell Thompson. By the time Holtz left we had an in house Candidate, Kenneth Keller. He was vocal critic of Athletics, and a big spender on East Gate. If you want proof on institional problems, simply study Moos, Mcgrath, and Keller. They did everything they could to separtate atheltics form the Univeristy. We have had numerous AD's since Giel and few could battle with the Administration, Faculty, and Students. Baye, Boston, Dienhart, and when it became apparent the athletic departments could no longer be supported and possibly sports would be cut. Another hero jump into the Fray. Tom Moe did more in his interim time than Maturi ever did. I think it was Moe and Mason who first suggested an on campus stadium in the late 90's. The pundits said it was a pipe dream. There was little support from the Adm until another in house candidate came forward. Bob Bruininks for all he did he saw the football team as a window on Saturday for the Univeristy. This was radical. The Football team could be not only a part of the University but be the best advertising they could get. Revolutionary. He bridged the political divide, found a way to fund it. He was key to returning some rational thought on campus. His priortiy was the stadium, and what happened with the extension and firing of Mason is beyond me. Maybe he wanted a clean slate going into TCF. The problem he had was Joel Maturi making decisons relying on search committees. But with Bruininks leaving Eric Kaler comes in, and it didn't take long for him to see the problem Maturi was. We have had two Presidents in a row who concur that athletics is critical to the University. And now, Norwood Teague. We have had just about 2 years of stablity, institutional control. If you bring up wether it is an institional problem, and don't know what we have been through over the past 45 years you have no idea at all.
 

husker70 said:
It all started in 1968. The U hired a Minnesota Alum, one Malcom Moos. With all the things going on at the time, he was clear about one thing. Athletics and the Big 10 should be abandoned and the U should follow the Univeristy of Chicago Model. He had no time, inclination, or funding for Athletics and his vocal opposition brought Paul Giel from WCCO to the Athletic Department. Warmath was under fire and became an Assistant AD. This was the first stage of War between the Athletic Department and The University of Minnesota. Budget cuts in the 1970's and the Reign of Claude Peter McGrath. He took what was antipathy toward athletics to whole new level the Athletic Department was split, to provide women with their own AD. This was classic Roman divide and conquor. Cal Stoll was the coach and he didn't have two medicine balls to rub together. This at a time when College foot ball was exploding. Stadium expansions, extensive weight rooms, lounges for players. Meanwhile one of the craziest moves, Cal Stoll is fired and Joe Salem is brought in. Why? To sell tickets, put more fannies in the seats. And when that didn't charge up the base, the die was cast. McGrath was there and the downtown council with Harvey Mckay and Sid sold Giel on the move to The Dump. McGath, The Regents were in lock step. I surmise by moving the team off campus it was out of sight, out of mind. When the opening season in the dome was a disaster. Harvey recruited Lou Holtz to come in. The base was charged up like never before or since. The Dome was sold out. But somehow, a contract or a failure to communicate with Lou led to Notre Dame and a National Championship. Oh sure I remember Luther Darville. But I also remember Ricky Foggie and Darrell Thompson. By the time Holtz left we had an in house Candidate, Kenneth Keller. He was vocal critic of Athletics, and a big spender on East Gate. If you want proof on institional problems, simply study Moos, Mcgrath, and Keller. They did everything they could to separtate atheltics form the Univeristy. We have had numerous AD's since Giel and few could battle with the Administration, Faculty, and Students. Baye, Boston, Dienhart, and when it became apparent the athletic departments could no longer be supported and possibly sports would be cut. Another hero jump into the Fray. Tom Moe did more in his interim time than Maturi ever did. I think it was Moe and Mason who first suggested an on campus stadium in the late 90's. The pundits said it was a pipe dream. There was little support from the Adm until another in house candidate came forward. Bob Bruininks for all he did he saw the football team as a window on Saturday for the Univeristy. This was radical. The Football team could be not only a part of the University but be the best advertising they could get. Revolutionary. He bridged the political divide, found a way to fund it. He was key to returning some rational thought on campus. His priortiy was the stadium, and what happened with the extension and firing of Mason is beyond me. Maybe he wanted a clean slate going into TCF. The problem he had was Joel Maturi making decisons relying on search committees. But with Bruininks leaving Eric Kaler comes in, and it didn't take long for him to see the problem Maturi was. We have had two Presidents in a row who concur that athletics is critical to the University. And now, Norwood Teague. We have had just about 2 years of stablity, institutional control. If you bring up wether it is an institional problem, and don't know what we have been through over the past 45 years you have no idea at all.
Click to expand...

enter_key.jpg
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom