Gophers 38th in latest Sagarin ratings, TCU #1

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SEC West still getting massive bumps for playing itself. Not impressed.
 

Using the Sagarin rankings to predict bowl games didn't work out so well for me this year.
 





I obviously hate wisconsin but to have them that far behind auburn after just beating them make me are fuzzy inside.
 

There's a reason these computerized ranking systems have never gained creditability or respect. Common sense is much more accurate unless tainted with bias. But even these results oriented scales start with assumptions about the ranking of teams whether they're accurate or not.
 




KillerGopherFan said:
There's a reason these computerized ranking systems have never gained creditability or respect. Common sense is much more accurate unless tainted with bias. But even these results oriented scales start with assumptions about the ranking of teams whether they're accurate or not.
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What does common sense say? The 2014 NDSU squad is not nearly as strong as their dominant team of 2013, so on a neutral field in 2014, I'd take MN over NDSU, but it would be hell of a battle for the maroon to win the LOS, and stop the power running game. Likewise, NDSU would struggle to stop the MN running game. MO is about the only team able to accomplish that.

In 2013, I'd have taken NDSU without hesitation. Common sense had them at 29 in the AP poll based on the eye test. This year, not as strong, but any team ranked in the 30's would get all they could handle. Some common sense.
 

Herd said:
What does common sense say? The 2014 NDSU squad is not nearly as strong as their dominant team of 2013, so on a neutral field in 2014, I'd take MN over NDSU, but it would be hell of a battle for the maroon to win the LOS, and stop the power running game. Likewise, NDSU would struggle to stop the MN running game. MO is about the only team able to accomplish that.

In 2013, I'd have taken NDSU without hesitation. Common sense had them at 29 in the AP poll based on the eye test. This year, not as strong, but any team ranked in the 30's would get all they could handle. Some common sense.
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Dear God....
 

7-6 Arkansas #10?

Gonna' call bull sh*t on that one. These rankings lose quite a bit of credibility right there.
 

I understand the SEC West lost some bowl games but that doesn't mean you can throw out the rest of the season. It's not like this is the opinion of someone with a SEC bias.
 



AO54 said:
I understand the SEC West lost some bowl games but that doesn't mean you can throw out the rest of the season. It's not like this is the opinion of someone with a SEC bias.
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What happened in the regular season that warrants respect? Anything besides Wisconsin losing to LSU?
 

Herd said:
What does common sense say? The 2014 NDSU squad is not nearly as strong as their dominant team of 2013, so on a neutral field in 2014, I'd take MN over NDSU, but it would be hell of a battle for the maroon to win the LOS, and stop the power running game. Likewise, NDSU would struggle to stop the MN running game. MO is about the only team able to accomplish that.

In 2013, I'd have taken NDSU without hesitation. Common sense had them at 29 in the AP poll based on the eye test. This year, not as strong, but any team ranked in the 30's would get all they could handle. Some common sense.
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C'mon man, just stop
 

Ski U Master said:
C'mon man, just stop
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When is the last time MN finished the year with a higher Sagarin rating? 2010 maybe?

2011 nope
2012 nope
2013 nope
2014 if ndsu wins Saturday - nope; But I still think MN is the better team this year

If you think MN would roll ndsu in a neutral site game, that your opinion. But its not a very objective opinion.
 

Herd said:
When is the last time MN finished the year with a higher Sagarin rating? 2010 maybe? 2011 nope 2012 nope 2013 nope 2014 if ndsu wins Saturday - nope; But I still think MN is the better team this year If you think MN would roll ndsu in a neutral site game, that your opinion. But its not a very objective opinion.
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Dude. Go home. No one cares about FCS football here.
 

Herd said:
When is the last time MN finished the year with a higher Sagarin rating? 2010 maybe? 2011 nope 2012 nope 2013 nope 2014 if ndsu wins Saturday - nope; But I still think MN is the better team this year If you think MN would roll ndsu in a neutral site game, that your opinion. But its not a very objective opinion.
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If they only let players under 72" play, the Bison would roll. I'm being serious, they could get one of those signs they have at Valleyfair and place it outside the Gophers locker room.
 

Herd said:
When is the last time MN finished the year with a higher Sagarin rating? 2010 maybe?

2011 nope
2012 nope
2013 nope
2014 if ndsu wins Saturday - nope; But I still think MN is the better team this year

If you think MN would roll ndsu in a neutral site game, that your opinion. But its not a very objective opinion.
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Sagarin is an absurd rating system. As SS pointed out, it has a 7-6 team at number 10. Furthermore, the worst team we lost to was better than the best team you beat. We beat several teams who were better than anyone on your schedule. The Nebraska team we beat on the road this year was better than any opponent your team has defeated in its history (home, road, or neutral site).
 

Herd said:
When is the last time MN finished the year with a higher Sagarin rating? 2010 maybe?

2011 nope
2012 nope
2013 nope
2014 if ndsu wins Saturday - nope; But I still think MN is the better team this year

If you think MN would roll ndsu in a neutral site game, that your opinion. But its not a very objective opinion.
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I wasn't giving an anti-NDSU comment, it's anti-Sagarin rankings.
 

AO54 said:
I understand the SEC West lost some bowl games but that doesn't mean you can throw out the rest of the season. It's not like this is the opinion of someone with a SEC bias.
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The only reason that several SEC teams were highly ranked was because of a) media hype and b) they beat other supposedly great SEC teams who, it turns out, were not that great.
 


Herd said:
What does common sense say? The 2014 NDSU squad is not nearly as strong as their dominant team of 2013, so on a neutral field in 2014, I'd take MN over NDSU, but it would be hell of a battle for the maroon to win the LOS, and stop the power running game. Likewise, NDSU would struggle to stop the MN running game. MO is about the only team able to accomplish that.

In 2013, I'd have taken NDSU without hesitation. Common sense had them at 29 in the AP poll based on the eye test. This year, not as strong, but any team ranked in the 30's would get all they could handle. Some common sense.
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Seriously, enjoy your championship game, but just stop. You are a prime example of why we hate you guys.
 

GopherSOB said:
I guess Arkansas in now a top ten team.....ok.
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I think Arkansas is a much better team than people give them credit for - or their W/L record shows.

There are several games on their schedule this past season which could have easily gone the other way - they took us to OT, lost to Bama by one, lost to then #1 MS State by 7, and lost to a good (as you know) Mizzou by 7. The only game they lost by more than two scores was the season opener against Auburn, but when they won, they won convincingly (including against two Big 12 teams).

Now, I'm surprised to see them as top 10, but I wouldn't count them out as being a force to reckon with next season. The size of their team alone is something to be terrified of. And, by the size of their team, I mean the size of their coach. He is enormously fat, and growing larger by the minute. Opposing players may be sucked into a gravitational orbit around him if he snarfs down a few more Twinkies.
 

Aggie, I do believe they were a pretty darn good team and will probably be better next year but that does not merit a top ten ranking in my book. Everything you say about Bert B. is spot on.
 


TexasAggie11 said:
I think Arkansas is a much better team than people give them credit for - or their W/L record shows.

There are several games on their schedule this past season which could have easily gone the other way - they took us to OT, lost to Bama by one, lost to then #1 MS State by 7, and lost to a good (as you know) Mizzou by 7. The only game they lost by more than two scores was the season opener against Auburn, but when they won, they won convincingly (including against two Big 12 teams).

Now, I'm surprised to see them as top 10, but I wouldn't count them out as being a force to reckon with next season. The size of their team alone is something to be terrified of. And, by the size of their team, I mean the size of their coach. He is enormously fat, and growing larger by the minute. Opposing players may be sucked into a gravitational orbit around him if he snarfs down a few more Twinkies.
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I really hate that expression. Every team is exactly as good as their record shows (or at least exactly as good as their record and the strength of their opponent shows). If the goal of a football team is to be the best teams at winning games, two things matter: how often you win games and how good the teams you play are. If two teams play the same schedule, and Team A blows out half the teams and loses squeakers to the other half, and Team B wins squeakers against half the teams and loses blowouts to the other half, they have both gotten to the same record. The fact that Team B's strength lies in being able to pull out the close ones doesn't make them a worse team just because they have a worse margin of victory. Just like the fact that Team A has a propensity for choking in the close ones doesn't mean that they are a good team because they "could have" won the ones they lost.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I really hate that expression. Every team is exactly as good as their record shows (or at least exactly as good as their record and the strength of their opponent shows). If the goal of a football team is to be the best teams at winning games, two things matter: how often you win games and how good the teams you play are. If two teams play the same schedule, and Team A blows out half the teams and loses squeakers to the other half, and Team B wins squeakers against half the teams and loses blowouts to the other half, they have both gotten to the same record. The fact that Team B's strength lies in being able to pull out the close ones doesn't make them a worse team just because they have a worse margin of victory. Just like the fact that Team A has a propensity for choking in the close ones doesn't mean that they are a good team because they "could have" won the ones they lost.
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I would agree with that, ceteris paribus. However, our sample size of games between any two given teams is usually one, and a variety of factors influence that single competition.

For example, 2013 Alabama was probably a better team than 2013 Auburn and would have won the Iron Bowl 6-7 out of 10 times were it not for a very specific and unique sequence of events that allows them to win that game. In the same vein, Georgia might have beat Auburn 5-6 times out of 10 if not for the tipped pass.

I acknowledge that in football you get one shot to win, and good teams gut it out to win. However, I think a team can be better than what their record shows because they lost games due to situations that would never be repeated in 100 tries.

Again, I'm not arguing for pig as a top ten team. I'm just saying that I wouldn't go into a game against them unprepared just because their SEC record is 2-6.
 

TexasAggie11 said:
I think Arkansas is a much better team than people give them credit for - or their W/L record shows.

There are several games on their schedule this past season which could have easily gone the other way - they took us to OT, lost to Bama by one, lost to then #1 MS State by 7, and lost to a good (as you know) Mizzou by 7. The only game they lost by more than two scores was the season opener against Auburn, but when they won, they won convincingly (including against two Big 12 teams).

Now, I'm surprised to see them as top 10, but I wouldn't count them out as being a force to reckon with next season. The size of their team alone is something to be terrified of. And, by the size of their team, I mean the size of their coach. He is enormously fat, and growing larger by the minute. Opposing players may be sucked into a gravitational orbit around him if he snarfs down a few more Twinkies.
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Aggie - I enjoy your posting but this is why everyone hates the SEC. All the teams are ranked much higher than they should be. The bowl season showed that neither Ole Miss or Mississippi State ever truly earned that #1 ranking. Heck, one could argue, Alabama never truly deserved to be ranked #1. It is all hype. If Alabama is ranked #1 and Ole Miss beats them, heck Ole Miss is #1 right? There is not a scenario that makes Arkansas a top 10 team. They finished one game above .500 in a division that performed very poorly in bowl season.

If the SEC is soooo good at football, explain this to me. Texas A&M's last three years in the Big 12 they were 22-17, first three years in the SEC they are 28-11 and Missouri's last three years in the Big 12 they were 28-13 and first three years in the SEC they have a nearly identical record of 28-12. It would seem that playing tougher competition would lead to more losses?
 

GoldenShower said:
The only reason that several SEC teams were highly ranked was because of a) media hype and b) they beat other supposedly great SEC teams who, it turns out, were not that great.
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The human polls with the SEC bias or hype have nothing to do with the Sagarin rankings.
 

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