Gopher BB

[Dchris]

In looking at which players we lost going forward, the quality was marginal. Robbins went with his Uncle and Mashburn
went with Pitino for some reason. The players lost such as Williams, Freeman, Mitchell, Gach, Omersa averaged less
than 7pts a game. Johnson went home to DePaul and Kalschur needed a new beginning. The players we brought in
averaged between 12 and 17 points with Mid Major teams. Thiem was highly rated in JC. The jury is out on Daniels,
ogele and Thompson; however, I don't agree that the cupboard is totally bare. I would feel more comfortable if we had
a legitimate center. All things considered, we didn't lose the nucleus of a Big 10 champion. Give the coach a chance!

 

[60's Guy]

How much of a chance does he deserve? If he doesn't quit he is guaranteed just short of $10 million dollars to do the job.
"didn't lose the nucleus of a Big 10 champion" one of a dozen different possible scenarios that cry BS...let's say we ponied up and hired Musselman...you telling me we would not be at least dark horses to compete for a Big Ten title with that nucleus and high level additions?
Once again, with that crappy roster and a deplorable coach somehow they were a Top 25 team and beat even higher rated teams, yet an experienced, qualified coach couldn't have parlayed the roster with additions into a team competing for a Big Ten title team and at minimum an NCAA berth. BS!!!
$10 million dollars deserves some results. $10 million says you should be able to recruit one of the Top 10 rated Minnesota HS players. $10 million warrants some evidence you know what the heck you are doing.
There are two sides to give the coach a chance, he accepted the challenge. With the challenge comes scrutiny.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

How much of a chance does he deserve? If he doesn't quit he is guaranteed just short of $10 million dollars to do the job.
"didn't lose the nucleus of a Big 10 champion" one of a dozen different possible scenarios that cry BS...let's say we ponied up and hired Musselman...you telling me we would not be at least dark horses to compete for a Big Ten title with that nucleus and high level additions?
Once again, with that crappy roster and a deplorable coach somehow they were a Top 25 team and beat even higher rated teams, yet an experienced, qualified coach couldn't have parlayed the roster with additions into a team competing for a Big Ten title team and at minimum an NCAA berth. BS!!!
$10 million dollars deserves some results. $10 million says you should be able to recruit one of the Top 10 rated Minnesota HS players. $10 million warrants some evidence you know what the heck you are doing.
There are two sides to give the coach a chance, he accepted the challenge. With the challenge comes scrutiny.

Where did said roster finish in the Big Ten?

 

[60's Guy]

Where did said roster finish in the Big Ten?

At the bottom. The roster had injuries. The coach had flaws. Healthy, the nucleus proved it could compete at a high level. Did they not?

"Where did said roster finish in the Big Ten" is a convenient, shallow, short sighted cheap shot
that has no substance. Your thinking is going is going to prevent you from making a lot of money. Someday, you'll have the opportunity to buy a company that is underperforming for pennies on the dollar...for real or an underperforming stock. You'll say naw, "look where it finished". Someone else will employ the right leadership, turn it around and become a billionaire.

Really weak reply.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

At the bottom. The roster had injuries. The coach had flaws. Healthy, the nucleus proved it could compete at a high level. Did they not?

"Where did said roster finish in the Big Ten" is a convenient, shallow, short sighted cheap shot
that has no substance. Your thinking is going is going to prevent you from making a lot of money. Someday, you'll have the opportunity to buy a company that is underperforming for pennies on the dollar...for real or an underperforming stock. You'll say naw, "look where it finished". Someone else will employ the right leadership, turn it around and become a billionaire.

Really weak reply.

Ah I got it. It doesn't matter where you finished it just matters what some results were during the year. It seems like you aren't willing to give Johnson the same leeway based on your 10 million dollar rant. Odd

Maybe some of Ben’s struggles has to do with the roster dynamic and record of the prior year?

 

[GFBfan]

How much of a chance does he deserve? If he doesn't quit he is guaranteed just short of $10 million dollars to do the job.
"didn't lose the nucleus of a Big 10 champion" one of a dozen different possible scenarios that cry BS...let's say we ponied up and hired Musselman...you telling me we would not be at least dark horses to compete for a Big Ten title with that nucleus and high level additions?
Once again, with that crappy roster and a deplorable coach somehow they were a Top 25 team and beat even higher rated teams, yet an experienced, qualified coach couldn't have parlayed the roster with additions into a team competing for a Big Ten title team and at minimum an NCAA berth. BS!!!
$10 million dollars deserves some results. $10 million says you should be able to recruit one of the Top 10 rated Minnesota HS players. $10 million warrants some evidence you know what the heck you are doing.
There are two sides to give the coach a chance, he accepted the challenge. With the challenge comes scrutiny.

He’s 0 and 0 right now
if in three years he’s not done much then by all means bring up the $10 mil.
bringing it up now it seems like the answer to your first question is none

 

[60's Guy]

Ah I got it. It doesn't matter where you finished it just matters what some results were during the year. It seems like you aren't willing to give Johnson the same leeway based on your 10 million dollar rant. Odd

Maybe some of Ben’s struggles has to do with the roster dynamic and record of the prior year?

Maybe? But just realize there is a maybe not side too.

ODD? You ignore evidence is your problem.
Gabe has a relationship with Ben and Thorson and leaves.

Ben is touted as a recruiting wizard and isn't looking good on any Top 10 Minnesota high school rated kids with the additional mantra "MN AAU coaches wanted Ben"

Ben was able to recruit nobody from Xavier in the transfer portal after spending at least a year with them.

Ben btw has been recruiting MN HS players for 10 years.

Ben may have hired great coaches but nobody else was bidding for their services.

Ben could have kept Robbins...chose not to. Admirable or dumb?

We want shooters: We recruit one for three more years with a very funky shot with a guy who says his greatest need is to work on his shot and how his JC coach really helped him with his shot...but he ain't here. Juries out.

It's a longer list but...

We did get the DeLaSalle Battle kid. We did get D2 Parker Fox whose dream it was to be a Gopher.

 

[60's Guy]

He’s 0 and 0 right now
if in three years he’s not done much then by all means bring up the $10 mil.
bringing it up now it seems like the answer to your first question is none

He has a 5 year chance, His actions to date, because he is paid handsomely, allow for some scrutiny imo on a message board.
We may go to the NCAA tournament in year 5. Not saying it is not possible. So far, I don't see the path, that's all.
Doesn't mean Ben doesn't have one.

 

[60's Guy]

I must be drunk, I'm taking time to answer your comments.
Top 10 rated kids on 247: 2 are committed, 2 are likely going elsewhere, at least 2 don't appear to have a MN offer which is fine, and we are among many interested on the other Top !0 kids. So ya,
we could get 5 of them and I'm an alarmist.
At one time 4 players from Xavier were in the portal. 3 went elsewhere last I looked. Some Ben was their primary recruiter.
Asst coaches...how would you even know? Al Gore invented the internet.
Alright, I'm done. Go back to chanting to the candles: Ben is our coach. I believe in him. He can do no wrong. He will succeed. 60's guy is an idiot. He is not as smart as me.

 

[bc2211]

At the bottom. The roster had injuries. The coach had flaws. Healthy, the nucleus proved it could compete at a high level. Did they not?

"Where did said roster finish in the Big Ten" is a convenient, shallow, short sighted cheap shot
that has no substance. Your thinking is going is going to prevent you from making a lot of money. Someday, you'll have the opportunity to buy a company that is underperforming for pennies on the dollar...for real or an underperforming stock. You'll say naw, "look where it finished". Someone else will employ the right leadership, turn it around and become a billionaire.

Really weak reply.

Don’t like picking favorites in arguments on here, but last year’s roster was capable enough to beat three teams ranked within the top 5. I’m with you... roster talent last year wasn’t the issue.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

60's Guy - I get what you are saying.

The problem is - there is no way to prove it.

You say the Gophers would be better off if they had hired Musselman. Maybe they would have been.

But you can't prove it. They did not hire Musselman, so there is no way to know what might have happened. You don't know which players might have stayed. Shoot, for all you or I know, Musselman might have looked at the returning roster and did exactly what Johnson did - told them, "good luck at your next school."

do you think Musselman would have hired Uncle Ed as a coach just to keep Robbins? I don't buy that for a moment.

Sure, the roster would look different with Musselman as coach. And Musselman would most likely be making more than that $10-million that Johnson is promised. Maybe a lot more. And Maybe that's why he's not the coach at MN.

 

[upnorthkid]

Don’t like picking favorites in arguments on here, but last year’s roster was capable enough to beat three teams ranked within the top 5. I’m with you... roster talent last year wasn’t the issue.

The problem is, for Ben’s sake, he wasn’t getting that roster given Carr was gone either way. To keep Robbins you’re saying his uncle must stay on as staff.
i would’ve been Extremely interested to watch any coach, Ben included, see what they could do with our entire roster last year as I agree talent’s wasn’t the issue

 

[gophereric30]

Maybe? But just realize there is a maybe not side too.

ODD? You ignore evidence is your problem.
Gabe has a relationship with Ben and Thorson and leaves.

Ben is touted as a recruiting wizard and isn't looking good on any Top 10 Minnesota high school rated kids with the additional mantra "MN AAU coaches wanted Ben"

Ben was able to recruit nobody from Xavier in the transfer portal after spending at least a year with them.

Ben btw has been recruiting MN HS players for 10 years.

Ben may have hired great coaches but nobody else was bidding for their services.

Ben could have kept Robbins...chose not to. Admirable or dumb?

We want shooters: We recruit one for three more years with a very funky shot with a guy who says his greatest need is to work on his shot and how his JC coach really helped him with his shot...but he ain't here. Juries out.

It's a longer list but...

We did get the DeLaSalle Battle kid. We did get D2 Parker Fox whose dream it was to be a Gopher.

Just because ben coached at xavier doesnt mean those guys want to come to minnesota. Gabe said he needed a new start. Stop it with his assistants weren't wanted by anyone. I'm sure if there was an announcement saying these guys are available there would be plenty suitors. Hate when people on this board just throw out shit when they actually dont know the facts. Just because ben might not get a great 2022 class doesnt mean anything towards whether he can recruit minnesota. It's still early too. Minnesota has been great lately with high school kids. Nobody that's top 25 has come to minnesota so why does everybody go crazy on the rest of the guys? If you take away the top 50 guys in minnesota that dont come to minnesota then why are we so in love with the rest of the guys that may or may not make minnesota decent. Getting top 200 guys from minnesota ain't gonna make us great! It will make is average as weve seen the last 100 years lol

 

[CPTMidnight]

I must be drunk, I'm taking time to answer your comments.
Top 10 rated kids on 247: 2 are committed, 2 are likely going elsewhere, at least 2 don't appear to have a MN offer which is fine, and we are among many interested on the other Top !0 kids. So ya,
we could get 5 of them and I'm an alarmist.
At one time 4 players from Xavier were in the portal. 3 went elsewhere last I looked. Some Ben was their primary recruiter.
Asst coaches...how would you even know? Al Gore invented the internet.
Alright, I'm done. Go back to chanting to the candles: Ben is our coach. I believe in him. He can do no wrong. He will succeed. 60's guy is an idiot. He is not as smart as me.

 

[60's Guy]

60's Guy - I get what you are saying.

The problem is - there is no way to prove it.

You say the Gophers would be better off if they had hired Musselman. Maybe they would have been.

But you can't prove it. They did not hire Musselman, so there is no way to know what might have happened. You don't know which players might have stayed. Shoot, for all you or I know, Musselman might have looked at the returning roster and did exactly what Johnson did - told them, "good luck at your next school."

do you think Musselman would have hired Uncle Ed as a coach just to keep Robbins? I don't buy that for a moment.

Sure, the roster would look different with Musselman as coach. And Musselman would most likely be making more than that $10-million that Johnson is promised. Maybe a lot more. And Maybe that's why he's not the coach at MN.

Agreed, no way to prove anything is true. But, the odds are much higher for a different more positive result to date with Musselman, Dutcher, Smith etc

Vanderbilt had no problem hiring Uncle Ed.

And Carr is playing college basketball at Texas for another gung ho coach so I don't think Carr has stated any objection to returning to Minnesota if the other players and coach were comparable, which they would have been in the Musselman scenario.

Musselman is double the money I'd guess. The others are more than Ben. I don't think money was the main issue, however. We are in climate where the AD agreed to hire by committee. I doubt that happens again or we'll likely have a new AD.

 

[60's Guy]

View attachment 13358

Cute. Your mom would be proud.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Agreed, no way to prove anything is true. But, the odds are much higher for a different more positive result to date with Musselman, Dutcher, Smith etc

Vanderbilt had no problem hiring Uncle Ed.

And Carr is playing college basketball at Texas for another gung ho coach so I don't think Carr has stated any objection to returning to Minnesota if the other players and coach were comparable, which they would have been in the Musselman scenario.

Musselman is double the money I'd guess. The others are more than Ben. I don't think money was the main issue, however. We are in climate where the AD agreed to hire by committee. I doubt that happens again or we'll likely have a new AD.

We could’ve hired Craig Smith for the salary we paid Ben. As said earlier that list is bad. Top 5 MN 2022 recruits are Holloman, Heide, Payne, Carrington, and King (still coming back from injury). All the lists are still messed up due to the last summers circuits not playing a ton. Ben will likely get 2 of them and be in it on the 3rd.

 

[60's Guy]

We could’ve hired Craig Smith for the salary we paid Ben. As said earlier that list is bad. Top 5 MN 2022 recruits are Holloman, Heide, Payne, Carrington, and King (still coming back from injury). All the lists are still messed up due to the last summers circuits not playing a ton. Ben will likely get 2 of them and be in it on the 3rd.

If we got the right guys coming and the list is fubar, that is awesome news! Let's get em on the roster.
I have no idea who belongs where on any list and if Payne and Carrington are Top 5 and become Gophers my whole outlook is far more optimistic. Thank you.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

Just because ben coached at xavier doesnt mean those guys want to come to minnesota. Gabe said he needed a new start. Stop it with his assistants weren't wanted by anyone. I'm sure if there was an announcement saying these guys are available there would be plenty suitors. Hate when people on this board just throw out shit when they actually dont know the facts. Just because ben might not get a great 2022 class doesnt mean anything towards whether he can recruit minnesota. It's still early too. Minnesota has been great lately with high school kids. Nobody that's top 25 has come to minnesota so why does everybody go crazy on the rest of the guys? If you take away the top 50 guys in minnesota that dont come to minnesota then why are we so in love with the rest of the guys that may or may not make minnesota decent. Getting top 200 guys from minnesota ain't gonna make us great! It will make is average as weve seen the last 100 years lol

oh the irony

 

[bga1]

60's Guy - I get what you are saying.

The problem is - there is no way to prove it.

You say the Gophers would be better off if they had hired Musselman. Maybe they would have been.

But you can't prove it. They did not hire Musselman, so there is no way to know what might have happened. You don't know which players might have stayed. Shoot, for all you or I know, Musselman might have looked at the returning roster and did exactly what Johnson did - told them, "good luck at your next school."

do you think Musselman would have hired Uncle Ed as a coach just to keep Robbins? I don't buy that for a moment.

Sure, the roster would look different with Musselman as coach. And Musselman would most likely be making more than that $10-million that Johnson is promised. Maybe a lot more. And Maybe that's why he's not the coach at MN.

Yep, that sums it up. When it comes down to it, the people that lead the U of M just are not that interested in winning. They get donors to put up 150 million for practice facilities and then go cheap on the coach. If Johnson wins, it will be because of him (and he might do it). He won't get much help in doing so from the U. They'd spend 10, 20 or 50 million on politically correct issues long, long before they would pay market for a winning basketball coach.

 

[Gopherfan84]

If we got the right guys coming and the list is fubar, that is awesome news! Let's get em on the roster.
I have no idea who belongs where on any list and if Payne and Carrington are Top 5 and become Gophers my whole outlook is far more optimistic. Thank you.

I personally haven’t seen Payne yet, but I know quite a few that have and they say he’s the real deal. Carrington is a real nice two way player, but was behind some real good ones so he really only got a shot to play at ton at PC last year. Both are just roster developers, but would
be great gets. Ben still has to prove he can coach and develop guys however. We will see, but he’s got a good staff imo to do so. I was also optimistic about Pitino at first though so who knows if my judgement is sound lol.

 

[CPTMidnight]

Cute. Your mom would be proud.

Its not just you. The whole thread is "old man yells at cloud".

 

[graydon]

Speaking of "old man yells at cloud", does GopherHole give an award for the best, most descriptive thread title of the year??

Gopher BB​

should be in the running!