GOP Chooses Trump And QAnon - Trump Is Gone But The Party Is Still His

Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
49,210
Reaction score
3,710
Points
113
And what happens when they do? All integrity and traceability is lost. There is no proof that the way the ballots are being handled won't impact legibility. What happens if the ballots in don't match the ballots out? Any credible audit has known and defined standards. Furthermore Auditors sit down with Auditees and go over scope, purpose, length of audit, etc. Has any of this been done?

Either way, this has created a massive $hit show. The only thing this has done is create doubt in our election process.
If the process is not credible and destroys evidence, it will not impact public opinion, and won’t have merit.

it has. And has the Russian allegations, as has the Stacy Abrams allegations. When you pursue power by any means necessary, bad things happen.
 

STPGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
6,418
Reaction score
769
Points
113
If the process is not credible and destroys evidence, it will not impact public opinion, and won’t have merit.

it has. And has the Russian allegations, as has the Stacy Abrams allegations. When you pursue power by any means necessary, bad things happen.
tenor.gif
 



Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
49,210
Reaction score
3,710
Points
113
The second.
The Russia Big Lie is at least as bad as the current Big Lie. At least. It was used to completely cripple a duly elected President. It was a form of insurrection and sedition. The current Big Lie hasn’t required a special prosecutor. But if the corporate media was pushing the current big lie, you can bet most Americans would find it wholly credible. Same amount of evidence.
 




STPGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
6,418
Reaction score
769
Points
113
The Russia Big Lie is at least as bad as the current Big Lie. At least. It was used to completely cripple a duly elected President. It was a form of insurrection and sedition. The current Big Lie hasn’t required a special prosecutor. But if the corporate media was pushing the current big lie, you can bet most Americans would find it wholly credible. Same amount of evidence.
Well then. I think we partially agree. The Russian collusion investigation had an established process. Even if we don't agree on the need, or the outcome, we can agree that there was some sort of process that is verifiable. The lead prosecutor was a decorated officer IIRC and he was also vetted.
 




Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
49,210
Reaction score
3,710
Points
113
Well then. I think we partially agree. The Russian collusion investigation had an established process. Even if we don't agree on the need, or the outcome, we can agree that there was some sort of process that is verifiable. The lead prosecutor was a decorated officer IIRC and he was also vetted.
Regardless of the processes and accreditation, we are talking about trust. The establishment used an unvetted and actually known to be false dossier as the basis for all kinds of investigations. They broke their own rules. I know we all hate Trump so we are willing to overlook all of that stuff. But if you loved Trump, you wouldn’t be incorrect to note that institutions and processes were all corrupted and abused to get him out of office.

So when those same people are telling you that the election was totally legit, and a guy who hid in his basement and could barely string a sentence together got the most votes in history, millions more than Obama, you could forgive them for not trusting the processes and wanting folks outside the system to look into it. The flip side of course is that these auditors very likely are grifters and corrupt themselves. It’s a mess. Which is why I’ve said repeatedly from the beginning, it’s very important to treat Trump fairly. Sure, your average Howie can rage and lie all he wants. But if you place a lot of value in our institutions, don’t corrupt them for expediency. You are just as much to blame for our predicament as AZ Republicans hiring ninjas.
 

STPGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
6,418
Reaction score
769
Points
113
Regardless of the processes and accreditation, we are talking about trust. The establishment used an unvetted and actually known to be false dossier as the basis for all kinds of investigations. They broke their own rules. I know we all hate Trump so we are willing to overlook all of that stuff. But if you loved Trump, you wouldn’t be incorrect to note that institutions and processes were all corrupted and abused to get him out of office.

So when those same people are telling you that the election was totally legit, and a guy who hid in his basement and could barely string a sentence together got the most votes in history, millions more than Obama, you could forgive them for not trusting the processes and wanting folks outside the system to look into it. The flip side of course is that these auditors very likely are grifters and corrupt themselves. It’s a mess. Which is why I’ve said repeatedly from the beginning, it’s very important to treat Trump fairly. Sure, your average Howie can rage and lie all he wants. But if you place a lot of value in our institutions, don’t corrupt them for expediency. You are just as much to blame for our predicament as AZ Republicans hiring ninjas.
 

STPGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
6,418
Reaction score
769
Points
113
Processes and Accreditation is at the heart of Trust. Dummied down, any process, and the process(es) used to audit said process, is to; State what you do, and to show that you did what you stated you would do.
 





Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
49,210
Reaction score
3,710
Points
113
Processes and Accreditation is at the heart of Trust. Dummied down, any process, and the process(es) used to audit said process, is to; State what you do, and to show that you did what you stated you would do.
I think the average person is a little uncomfortable with a sudden change in processes months before an election, with the widespread use of mail ballots. So yes, you are correct. Accreditation, is not a super meaningful concept to me.
 



STPGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
6,418
Reaction score
769
Points
113
I think the average person is a little uncomfortable with a sudden change in processes months before an election, with the widespread use of mail ballots. So yes, you are correct. Accreditation, is not a super meaningful concept to me.
Is it not always months before an election? Isn't any orgs goal to stay audit ready?

Anyway, nothing personal. Just differences in opinion.
 


saintpaulguy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
9,366
Reaction score
4,088
Points
113
Is it not always months before an election? Isn't any orgs goal to stay audit ready?

Anyway, nothing personal. Just differences in opinion.
Isn't is ALWAYS after midnight? When CAN you feed a Gremlin?
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
55,913
Reaction score
12,313
Points
113
Well then. I think we partially agree. The Russian collusion investigation had an established process. Even if we don't agree on the need, or the outcome, we can agree that there was some sort of process that is verifiable. The lead prosecutor was a decorated officer IIRC and he was also vetted.
The Russia investigation also resulted in dozens of people being charged with crimes. If Trump's 50 lawsuits had shown at least some level of fraud, maybe a further audit conducted by an actual neutral 3rd party would be justified.

But they found zero fraud. This is a partisan "audit" conducted by wing-nut conspiracy theorists with no verifiable process and 2 and the rest of the QOP are waving waving their pom poms for it.
 

Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
49,210
Reaction score
3,710
Points
113
The Russia investigation also resulted in dozens of people being charged with crimes. If Trump's 50 lawsuits had shown at least some level of fraud, maybe a further audit conducted by an actual neutral 3rd party would be justified.

But they found zero fraud. This is a partisan "audit" conducted by wing-nut conspiracy theorists with no verifiable process and 2 and the rest of the QOP are waving waving their pom poms for it.
Crimes unrelated to the investigation? I agree that finding a neutral third party is a much better route.
it is a partisan audit. I don’t see how I’m waving my Pom poms. If people want to spend money on an investigation go right ahead.
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
25,038
Reaction score
6,182
Points
113
Regardless of the processes and accreditation, we are talking about trust. The establishment used an unvetted and actually known to be false dossier as the basis for all kinds of investigations. They broke their own rules. I know we all hate Trump so we are willing to overlook all of that stuff. But if you loved Trump, you wouldn’t be incorrect to note that institutions and processes were all corrupted and abused to get him out of office.

So when those same people are telling you that the election was totally legit, and a guy who hid in his basement and could barely string a sentence together got the most votes in history, millions more than Obama, you could forgive them for not trusting the processes and wanting folks outside the system to look into it. The flip side of course is that these auditors very likely are grifters and corrupt themselves. It’s a mess. Which is why I’ve said repeatedly from the beginning, it’s very important to treat Trump fairly. Sure, your average Howie can rage and lie all he wants. But if you place a lot of value in our institutions, don’t corrupt them for expediency. You are just as much to blame for our predicament as AZ Republicans hiring ninjas.

Everyone should tag this post so that they know the wild nonsense that deuce lives with.

Trust has been eroded....by the right. With crazy claims of fraud that were unproven. Most were completely laughed out of the court room. Maybe you clowns were used to the laughter?

Now you are claiming that there is no way that Biden got more votes? The "hiding in basement" joke should have ended when Biden wiped the floor with Dementia Don in the first debate. But nope. The rock biters keep trotting it out there despite the fact that Biden made Dementia Don look like the fool that he is twice.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
55,913
Reaction score
12,313
Points
113
Crimes unrelated to the investigation? I agree that finding a neutral third party is a much better route.
it is a partisan audit. I don’t see how I’m waving my Pom poms. If people want to spend money on an investigation go right ahead.
The dozens of Russians charged with election interference were directly related.

Because the results will never be trusted by anyone but the hard-core loons, the only purpose this serves is to sow doubt about the next election and justify red states overturning the results. I'm guessing you're totally fine with that.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
55,913
Reaction score
12,313
Points
113
Unfortunately, this is right. As awful the QOP voter suppression laws are, election subversion, simply overturning or refusing to certify the results is the greater danger. But the more they lose by, the harder it is to do, so they are related.

 

Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
49,210
Reaction score
3,710
Points
113
The dozens of Russians charged with election interference were directly related.

Because the results will never be trusted by anyone but the hard-core loons, the only purpose this serves is to sow doubt about the next election and justify red states overturning the results. I'm guessing you're totally fine with that.
Trump collusion is the charge and the big lie.

this is true with or without an audit. With even a partisan audit, there’s a chance they find nothing of significance and the hard core loons are defeated. Im pro secession but that’s not really the way I’d want it to proceed.
 



howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
55,913
Reaction score
12,313
Points
113
Everyone should tag this post so that they know the wild nonsense that deuce lives with.

Trust has been eroded....by the right. With crazy claims of fraud that were unproven. Most were completely laughed out of the court room. Maybe you clowns were used to the laughter?

Now you are claiming that there is no way that Biden got more votes? The "hiding in basement" joke should have ended when Biden wiped the floor with Dementia Don in the first debate. But nope. The rock biters keep trotting it out there despite the fact that Biden made Dementia Don look like the fool that he is twice.
Trump was a lying, grifting, incompetent fool. A majority of the American people were so disgusted by him that they turned out in record numbers to vote him out. The Fellas just can't understand it.
 

Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
49,210
Reaction score
3,710
Points
113
Trump was a lying, grifting, incompetent fool. A majority of the American people were so disgusted by him that they turned out in record numbers to vote him out. The Fellas just can't understand it.
They didn’t turn out. The filled out a ballot at home and mailed it in. At best.
you guys unfortunately have no ability whatsoever to consider alternative perspectives. That’s probably why you are progressives.
 




Top Bottom