Good Policing

Bob_Loblaw

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Yep! You are ignoring that this is a classic example of the chickens coming home to roost. So, the people that have ignored all of the crap including: Josh Hawley, Jim Jordan, and Marjorie Taylor Greene amongst others are incensed over LeBron James?

Do you think Lebron gives two craps about what I think or feel? For that matter, obviously you don't either.

Speaking of harm to the issue at hand which is supposed to be about policing. Remember the thread title?...

How is this chickens coming home to roost?

Now lets assume that it is, are you in favor of that in a civilized society? Are you at all concerned about other demographics looking for idiotic statistical "truths" and coming home to roost?

But no, Lebron doesn't give two shits about what anyone feels. This is an exercise in ego, that doesn't mean we shouldn't condemn the awful/dangerous things he says. I'm sure you were doing it for 4 years with Trump.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Show your work, CRG. This has nothing to do with me but the facts. I said nothing about the race of the officers. I don't care about the race of the officers. I can post the dozens of research papers that I found in short order online that demonstrate that racial profiling and police intimidation has been and continues to be a problem in this country.

Was this racial profiling or do you think that a white man would have been treated the same way as this Army lieutenant?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/lawsuit-virginia-police-officers-threatened-man-during-stop

If this was a white man visibly wearing camo, the police would have saluted or nodded to the man and moved on instead of pulling him over, drawing their weapons on him, and spraying him with pepper spray.

You've developed a reputation on the OTB and I am starting to think that it is deserved. You need to try putting yourself in other people's shoes, do a little research, and think a little bit. You're becoming a caricature.
Is there a question in there?
 

Spoofin

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How is this chickens coming home to roost?

Now lets assume that it is, are you in favor of that in a civilized society? Are you at all concerned about other demographics looking for idiotic statistical "truths" and coming home to roost?

But no, Lebron doesn't give two shits about what anyone feels. This is an exercise in ego, that doesn't mean we shouldn't condemn the awful/dangerous things he says. I'm sure you were doing it for 4 years with Trump.
Hey - LBJ removed the tweet and is willing to take the blow back so it’s all cool.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Show your work, CRG. This has nothing to do with me but the facts. I said nothing about the race of the officers. I don't care about the race of the officers. I can post the dozens of research papers that I found in short order online that demonstrate that racial profiling and police intimidation has been and continues to be a problem in this country.
Virtually any research paper coming to that conclusion begins with the failed assumption that all people commit crime leading to police interaction, at the same rate.

Here's a newspaper piece explaining the takeaways from a research paper done by Michigan St & Arizona St researchers:

"As detailed in a 2018 paper in the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science:

  • “The most common means of testing for racial disparity in police use of deadly force is to compare the odds of being fatally shot for blacks to the odds of being fatally shot for whites.”
  • That logic is flawed because it relies upon the false assumption that white and black people commit life-threatening crimes at the same rates.
  • The rational way to analyze this issue is to compare the odds of being fatally shot to each race’s “involvement in those situations where the police may be more likely to use deadly force.
  • Based on four different national datasets on “murder/nonnegligent manslaughter, violent crime, and weapons violations,” “in nearly every case, whites were either more likely to be fatally shot by police or police showed no significant disparity in either direction.”
Analysis: Black People Do Not Suffer Disproportionately from Police Brutality
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Show your work, CRG. This has nothing to do with me but the facts. I said nothing about the race of the officers. I don't care about the race of the officers. I can post the dozens of research papers that I found in short order online that demonstrate that racial profiling and police intimidation has been and continues to be a problem in this country.

Was this racial profiling or do you think that a white man would have been treated the same way as this Army lieutenant?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/lawsuit-virginia-police-officers-threatened-man-during-stop

If this was a white man visibly wearing camo, the police would have saluted or nodded to the man and moved on instead of pulling him over, drawing their weapons on him, and spraying him with pepper spray.

You've developed a reputation on the OTB and I am starting to think that it is deserved. You need to try putting yourself in other people's shoes, do a little research, and think a little bit. You're becoming a caricature.
Here's the research paper itself & it's conclusion:

"Is there evidence of a Black–White disparity in death by police gunfire in the United States? This is commonly answered by comparing the odds of being fatally shot for Blacks and Whites, with odds benchmarked against each group’s population proportion. However, adjusting for population values has questionable assumptions given the context of deadly force decisions. We benchmark 2 years of fatal shooting data on 16 crime rate estimates. When adjusting for crime, we find no systematic evidence of anti-Black disparities in fatal shootings, fatal shootings of unarmed citizens, or fatal shootings involving misidentification of harmless objects. Multiverse analyses showed only one significant anti-Black disparity of 144 possible tests. Exposure to police given crime rate differences likely accounts for the higher per capita rate of fatal police shootings for Blacks, at least when analyzing all shootings. For unarmed shootings or misidentification shootings, data are too uncertain to be conclusive."


Is There Evidence of Racial Disparity in Police Use of Deadly Force? Analyses of Officer-Involved Fatal Shootings in 2015–2016
 


Costa Rican Gopher

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Show your work, CRG. This has nothing to do with me but the facts. I said nothing about the race of the officers. I don't care about the race of the officers. I can post the dozens of research papers that I found in short order online that demonstrate that racial profiling and police intimidation has been and continues to be a problem in this country.

Was this racial profiling or do you think that a white man would have been treated the same way as this Army lieutenant?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/lawsuit-virginia-police-officers-threatened-man-during-stop

If this was a white man visibly wearing camo, the police would have saluted or nodded to the man and moved on instead of pulling him over, drawing their weapons on him, and spraying him with pepper spray.

You've developed a reputation on the OTB and I am starting to think that it is deserved. You need to try putting yourself in other people's shoes, do a little research, and think a little bit. You're becoming a caricature.

I'm combing through paper after paper that support your misconception and keep finding the exact same faulty assumption by the researchers that all people commit violoent crime at the same rate. They don't. Yes,only 13% of the population is Black, and yes 33% of police shootings are Black people, but they always leave out that 55% of violent crime is committed by the 13%. Black people are actually under-represented, not over-represented.

"Northeeatsern-Harvard Data driven study that combed through shooting deaths by police across 27 states in 2014-15, based on details culled from police and medical-examiner reports by the National Violent Death Reporting System. It found that Black people were killed at a rate higher than their proportion to the national population.

Although Black people represented 12 percent of the population in the states we studied, they made up 25 percent of the deaths in police shootings,” Miller says.

By comparison, Miller says, white people represented 62 percent of the population—and made up 54 percent of the deaths in encounters with police."

The research is clear: White people are not more likely than Black people to be killed by police.
 

STPGopher

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How is this chickens coming home to roost?

Now lets assume that it is, are you in favor of that in a civilized society? Are you at all concerned about other demographics looking for idiotic statistical "truths" and coming home to roost?

But no, Lebron doesn't give two shits about what anyone feels. This is an exercise in ego, that doesn't mean we shouldn't condemn the awful/dangerous things he says. I'm sure you were doing it for 4 years with Trump.
Yes. That is a correct and condescending assumption.

Am I concerned about half truths and flat out falsehoods? Yes.

Does Lebron have an ego? Of course! Should you condemn verbally what you feel is wrong? Yes and that is well within your rights. Can I point out that Trump and others have continuously sad things that are as bad and worse? Of course I can. Can I also point out that amongst all the things discussed it is the inflammatory comments, half truths, and flat out lies that have been supported, defended, etc.

With that said, it was the failure to address these issues that has made it acceptable to many.

Chickens coming home to roost.

If you care to discuss good policing, we can continue. Otherwise, you've said yours, and I've said mine.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Was this racial profiling or do you think that a white man would have been treated the same way as this Army lieutenant?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/lawsuit-virginia-police-officers-threatened-man-during-stop

If this was a white man visibly wearing camo, the police would have saluted or nodded to the man and moved on instead of pulling him over, drawing their weapons on him, and spraying him with pepper spray.

You've developed a reputation on the OTB and I am starting to think that it is deserved. You need to try putting yourself in other people's shoes, do a little research, and think a little bit. You're becoming a caricature.
I just watched the video. That's as far from racial profiling as you can get. The cops had no idea what color he was since he had dark tinted windows. He didn't pull over for miles. The officer had to call for back-up. The officers were clearly concerned for their safety, taking cover behind the squad car doors. They couldn't see his uniform. They couldn't see how many other people were in the vehicle. The guy failed to comply by rolling down his window as directed. Then he refused to stick his hands out the window as directed. Then he refused to comply by getting out of the vehicle as directed. Instead, he kept saying "What's going on", instead of complying. Then he said "I'm serving my country and this is how I'm treated?", as if that means he doesn't have to comply. The Hispanic officer even said "Guess what, I'm a veteran too. I learned how to obey.". His refusal to comply with the basic commands of the police officers over the course of several minutes clearly scared the cops, then later infuriated them. Then once he had them angry, he started telling the cops to "please relax". Then he refused their command to get on the ground. Then he physically resisted arrest. It was really frustrating to watch. 100% he did this on purpose. Completely passive aggressive. Why wouldn't he just comply like everyone else does? What made this guy think he was so privileged that he didn't follow the rules? F*ck that guy. He deserved a good macing.
 
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Bob_Loblaw

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Yes. That is a correct and condescending assumption.

Am I concerned about half truths and flat out falsehoods? Yes.

Does Lebron have an ego? Of course! Should you condemn verbally what you feel is wrong? Yes and that is well within your rights. Can I point out that Trump and others have continuously sad things that are as bad and worse? Of course I can. Can I also point out that amongst all the things discussed it is the inflammatory comments, half truths, and flat out lies that have been supported, defended, etc.

With that said, it was the failure to address these issues that has made it acceptable to many.

Chickens coming home to roost.

If you care to discuss good policing, we can continue. Otherwise, you've said yours, and I've said mine.
How can an assumption be correct and condescending?

Of course other people have lied and said horrible things. The people that defend them because they align politically are hacks. You've essentially admitted to being in that camp because you have done nothing but defend or deflect Lebron's vitriolic language.

What do you mean by chickens coming home to roost? You don't think this is incredibly dangerous language/ideology?

Lebron's tweet is on topic about good policing. If we are talking about good policing, I would hope that would include being able to use lethal force to save someone else's life. They have to be able to do that without being brought through the ringer. That cop should have been called a hero in Columbus and instead he's dragged through the mud. It's impossible to have good policing when any policing is condemned.
 



Donovan

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Regarding LeBron’s Tweet, great rebuttal from former NFL all-pro Marcellus Wiley who grew up in Compton. It’s edited with just his statements.
 

STPGopher

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How can an assumption be correct and condescending?

Of course other people have lied and said horrible things. The people that defend them because they align politically are hacks. You've essentially admitted to being in that camp because you have done nothing but defend or deflect Lebron's vitriolic language.

What do you mean by chickens coming home to roost? You don't think this is incredibly dangerous language/ideology?

Lebron's tweet is on topic about good policing. If we are talking about good policing, I would hope that would include being able to use lethal force to save someone else's life. They have to be able to do that without being brought through the ringer. That cop should have been called a hero in Columbus and instead he's dragged through the mud. It's impossible to have good policing when any policing is condemned.
It's called tone. Other than that, I have nothing further to discuss regarding Lebron. I already stated that.
https://www.thehindu.com/books/know...ns-have-come-home-to-roost/article2669218.ece

Regarding the Columbus officer, I will withhold comment because I know very little about the situation other that a couple of very brief videos. Was it a mental health issue? How old was the girl? Did they attempt to deescalate the situation? Was it even possible?
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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It's called tone. Other than that, I have nothing further to discuss regarding Lebron. I already stated that.
https://www.thehindu.com/books/know...ns-have-come-home-to-roost/article2669218.ece

Regarding the Columbus officer, I will withhold comment because I know very little about the situation other that a couple of very brief videos. Was it a mental health issue? How old was the girl? Did they attempt to deescalate the situation? Was it even possible?
Watch the video, this one is open and shut. Cops arrived on a chaotic scene, got out of car, were met by a girl running towards them begging for help, being chased by another girl with a big knife. The attacker appears to stab the first girl, who falls to the ground, then she turns to stab a second girl pinned against a car, and the cops shot her. The cops appear to have saved at least one life, if not more. The bodycam footage is clear. The neighbors who witnessed it say the cops saved lives. There should be no protest, or threats against police by high profile Black celebs. Period.
 

Spoofin

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Regarding LeBron’s Tweet, great rebuttal from former NFL all-pro Marcellus Wiley who grew up in Compton. It’s edited with just his statements.
Wiley absolutely nailed it. STP may be the last person left that thinks LBJ’s tweet was 🤷‍♂️
 



goldengophers

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Regarding LeBron’s Tweet, great rebuttal from former NFL all-pro Marcellus Wiley who grew up in Compton. It’s edited with just his statements.
This critique from Wiley is warranted, the cutting of the video makes me skeptical as to what was left out. I will find a full version of this video.
 
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BarnBurner

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No. Not all good, hence the Lightning rod comment. He is willing to deal with the consequences. Has he said he isn't?

Regarding comments, and yes this is relevant, has Trump apologized for seeking the death penalty for five innocent people? Has he done any form of retraction for taking out a full page add in New York papers and continuing to unapologetically ignore the consequences of his actions? Seems if anyone got a 'pass' it's this guy.
BUTBUTBUTBUTBUTBUTBUT

TRUMP!

ess tee pee
 


BarnBurner

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This critique from Wiley is warranted, the cutting of the video makes me skeptical as too what was left out. I will find a full version of this video.
Stop saying it is warranted when you full well support the great victim LEBRON.
 

goldengophers

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This critique from Wiley is warranted, the cutting of the video makes me skeptical as to what was left out. I will find a full version of this video.
Please watch this full video of the Wiley and Acho discussion of the tweet, for obvious reasons certain sources glommed onto an edited version.

 
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BarnBurner

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Please watch this full video of the Wiley and Acho discussion of the tweet, for obvious reasons certain sources glommed onto an edited version.

LeBron was wrong, and they each say it numerous times. Responsibility.

You libs avoid responsibility at all costs.
 

STPGopher

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LeBron was wrong, and they each say it numerous times. Responsibility.

You libs avoid responsibility at all costs.
January 6th!!!

Hilarious how this has become about Lebron James when the thread was about a police officer stopping another from going to far. That is accountability that matters.
 


BarnBurner

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January 6th!!!

Hilarious how this has become about Lebron James when the thread was about a police officer stopping another from going to far. That is accountability that matters.
LeBron the victim opened his mouth. Again.

Victim Lebron.
 






USAF

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Hey - LBJ removed the tweet and is willing to take the blow back so it’s all cool.
Heh.

No cute "drink!" post?

Odd.

I mean, that's your thing, right? Someone mentions Donny, you post "drink!"

And we know you're "fair and balanced." We know this because you've told us. And told us.

And yet here's Lawyer Bob...bringing up Trump, and instead of "drink!" we get you sucking up.

Again...odd.

Almost like you're a fraud and a hypocritical hack.
 

BarnBurner

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Nope. Only some can have more than binary thoughts. Some have determined that there are only two ways to look at a subject...
And some (you) have determined there is only one way to look at a subject.......
 




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