Fleck vs Dabo = Fleck WINS!!!

KillmeNow

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Ok, if you think recruiting rankings are the end all and be all and totally accurate in it's ability to predict future success, then Dabo has the advantage. But..

I'm talking about Fleck at Minnesota vs Dabo at the same point in his time at Clemson.

Dabo's 3rd season, against a Conf with ZERO other teams ranked in the Top 28, Clemson went 10-4, ending with a LOSS to #23 going into the game, WVU.

Fleck's 3rd season, against a Conf with FIVE other teams ranked in the Top 18, Minnesota went 11-2, ending with a WIN to the #9 going into the game, Auburn.


Fleck's 2nd season was also better, than Dabo's, again vs much tougher conf competition.

Some might say, but hey, Dabo's first season was better? Well, he inherited a team full of players from recruiting classes of #9, 14, 15 & 16. Fleck inherited a team full of players from recruiting classes of 67, 57, 63 & 46.


And if you combine what Fleck did at WMU, with teams full of players from classes in the 70s, 80s, 90s and one of 108, can any coach out there claim to have done MORE with LESS than Fleck has over his career?


Two of Dabo's first recruiting classes were rated 36th and 27th and his 4th(5th?) class was 20th. He didn't do better than 15th until his 2015 class, so his 7th or 8th?

Fleck already has 38th and 35th rated classes and could easily pull in a class better than Dabo's 27th rated class, and maybe even that 20th rated class? Now again, I am NOT claiming Fleck is or every will match Dabo's recruiting rankings, but seeing what Fleck does with his lowered rated players, I don't think he needs to match up to Dabo, especially when most of us know that recruiting rankings are not the end all and be all of determining how well players will perform as they grow and mature into young men.


But as long as the higher rated players Fleck is bringing in, and will probably bring in down the line, are his kind of players, and fit the programs needs, have good character and good attitudes and the right qualities, then the sky could really be the limit for this Gopher program. Dabo, compared to the Sabans and Meyers of the cfb world, has done more with less. Looking only at their recruiting rankings, they probably shouldn't have won either of the Titles they did. So if Fleck is doing even more with even less, I don't see any reason why our 2019 11-2 season has to be anywhere near our ceiling, nor will we have to be happy with going 12-0 before losing to OSU in the Conf Title game, either, if Fleck can coach up the 3 and 4*s to 4 and 5 star level players, and maybe bring in a few 5*s as well, if they are of the right attitude and character.

It took Dabo just shy of a decade to win a Natl Title. Is it really that out there to think Fleck could pull that off by 2025?
 

I'm with ya.

I just want to win our division outright ... you know once before I worry about Natty stuff ;)
 



And if you combine what Fleck did at WMU, with teams full of players from classes in the 70s, 80s, 90s and one of 108, can any coach out there claim to have done MORE with LESS than Fleck has over his career?
Waiting for the Bison fans to chime in to this
 


FWIW, Dabo's 2015 (his "do better than 15th") class coincided with the groundbreaking of their new football complex. Perhaps, that is the reason for the bump. Let's not hope our rankings have already included that bump!
 



I dream of the day every other team in the B1G sucks as badly as all the ACC teams Clemson plays.

Well, hate to shatter your dreams, but not only is the B1G as a whole getting better, but it's mostly because of the West Division improving that the B1G as a whole is. Tracking the recruiting rankings show that UMn, Wisc, Iowa and Nebraska are all bringing in better classes now than all 4 did 3 years ago and all 4 brought in better classes 3 years ago than they did 6 years ago and all 4 brought in better classes 6 years ago than they did 9 years ago.

That makes Fleck's going 11-2 in his 3rd season even more impressive than Dabo's 10-4 record in his 3rd season. The 4 classes at Clemson just prior to Dabo taking over were classes rated 16, 15, 14 & 9. And Dabo took those highly rated players and couldn't finish with a winning record his 2nd season when all 4 of those classes made up his non-1st year Frosh roster, and then a roster with 3 of those classes still on the roster and against a conf with ZERO ranked teams, all he could muster was that 10-4 record.

Now anyone remember the rank of the 4 classes just prior to Fleck showing up? So with MUCH LESS talent, and against a much tougher schedule, Fleck DID produce a winning record his 2nd season, and went 11-2 his 3rd season.


So ignoring the rankings of what both brought in for recruiting classes, which would indicate that Dabo started out bringing in better recruits, what both did on the football field leaves Fleck WAY AHEAD of Dabo at the same point in their careers at their current programs.
 



Are we honestly comparing Dabo to Fleck? I’m not challenging it. My question is “HOLY CRAP”! Do we, as fans, really think the U can get in the same conversation as Clemson? I hope so and want it. I guess what I’m asking is, are we on the threshold of something not seen here in forever, and we just don’t know it yet? Same as when Dabo went to Clemson and they probably didn’t know the success they would have?
 

Are we honestly comparing Dabo to Fleck? I’m not challenging it. My question is “HOLY CRAP”! Do we, as fans, really think the U can get in the same conversation as Clemson? I hope so and want it. I guess what I’m asking is, are we on the threshold of something not seen here in forever, and we just don’t know it yet? Same as when Dabo went to Clemson and they probably didn’t know the success they would have?

This fan thinks we can.

It seems quite clear that the head coach sees the Gophers competing nationally as The Goal. And there is growing evidence that it's possible.

We did finish 10th in the nation, after all. We did lay a beating on Auburn.

And the title of this forum indicates that Minnesota has a championship heritage in football.
 

They may have less, but who have they beaten? Iowa and KSU in 10 years? Beating us hardly counts for much considering how bad we were at that time.
NDSU touts try to convince others that their most recent game played against Minnesota happened within the last year or so.
 

Well, hate to shatter your dreams, but not only is the B1G as a whole getting better, but it's mostly because of the West Division improving that the B1G as a whole is. Tracking the recruiting rankings show that UMn, Wisc, Iowa and Nebraska are all bringing in better classes now than all 4 did 3 years ago and all 4 brought in better classes 3 years ago than they did 6 years ago and all 4 brought in better classes 6 years ago than they did 9 years ago.

That makes Fleck's going 11-2 in his 3rd season even more impressive than Dabo's 10-4 record in his 3rd season. The 4 classes at Clemson just prior to Dabo taking over were classes rated 16, 15, 14 & 9. And Dabo took those highly rated players and couldn't finish with a winning record his 2nd season when all 4 of those classes made up his non-1st year Frosh roster, and then a roster with 3 of those classes still on the roster and against a conf with ZERO ranked teams, all he could muster was that 10-4 record.

Now anyone remember the rank of the 4 classes just prior to Fleck showing up? So with MUCH LESS talent, and against a much tougher schedule, Fleck DID produce a winning record his 2nd season, and went 11-2 his 3rd season.


So ignoring the rankings of what both brought in for recruiting classes, which would indicate that Dabo started out bringing in better recruits, what both did on the football field leaves Fleck WAY AHEAD of Dabo at the same point in their careers at their current programs.
Don't piss in my Cheerios bro!
 



Are we honestly comparing Dabo to Fleck? I’m not challenging it. My question is “HOLY CRAP”! Do we, as fans, really think the U can get in the same conversation as Clemson? I hope so and want it. I guess what I’m asking is, are we on the threshold of something not seen here in forever, and we just don’t know it yet? Same as when Dabo went to Clemson and they probably didn’t know the success they would have?
I suspect this is "fun comparison" time that half seriously says "hey look a guy who did the amazing thing is similar to us / we're better in some ways".... at the same time folks know that the Dabo outcome is still a way low odds wise.
 

If the naysayers here are correct, and there really is no hope — or little hope — of Minnesota regaining past glory and once again becoming a nationally prominent program like Clemson, well... I hope no one tells P.J. Fleck. I think he disagrees with that assessment.
 

If the naysayers here are correct, and there really is no hope — or little hope — of Minnesota regaining past glory and once again becoming a nationally prominent program like Clemson, well... I hope no one tells P.J. Fleck. I think he disagrees with that assessment.

I think PJ knows ... he is asking for Elitie for that reason.
 



I suspect this is "fun comparison" time that half seriously says "hey look a guy who did the amazing thing is similar to us / we're better in some ways".... at the same time folks know that the Dabo outcome is still a way low odds wise.


Why? Why is it still a way low odds wise? Hot new coach, arguably a better coach than Dabo after each's first 3 years, at least, brand spanking new top notch, no, not top notch, instead a new "ELITE" Practice Facilities and Student Village to help with recruiting, and a roster chock full of returning starters who were only Sophs when they helped lead the Gophers to an 11-2 record, so just imagine how they'll do as jrs and srs?

If Fleck is able to pull in a recruiting class in the 20s in 2021, he'll be right on pace with how Dabo recruited his first couple seasons.

I have very high hopes for the Gophers football team under Fleck, and NO, he has no intentions to leave anytime soon. His dream was to coach in the B1G and here he is living his dream, coaching in the B1G. He won't start dreaming of something bigger or better until he's accomplished his goal, of getting Minnesota to the highest point possible, which I believe is a Natl Title, and proving to the entire cfb world that his philosophy/style of coaching, concentrating on an all encompassing culture is the best way for a non-blue blood to become a Natl Title contending program. And once he has accomplished that much, it won't matter if he stays or not. He may decide to stay around and turn UMn into a Dynasty, which would be great, but if he leaves after leading the Gophers to a Natl Title, then he'll have proven to the rest of the cfb world that a coach can win here, then we'll be able to hire a new coach and will not be anywhere as limited in who will be willing to coach here as we may have been in the past. I'm hoping he chooses to remain here until he retires, but if he moves on, well, it's what people do sometimes, but I don't buy all the bs about how he'll bolt for supposed greener pastures as soon as the first offer comes along, because how would that help him? How can he continue to sell his whole culture philosophy if he never sticks around anywhere long enough to see it through to fulfillment? I mean, if he DOES pull off a Natl Title here at Minnesota, it's a guaranteed ticket to the Hall of Fame, it's a #1 best selling book deal if he wants to go that route, and he'd be able to go wherever he wanted, and get paid more than any other coach in the nation. I think we should sign him to a lifetime contract, and build a statue of him, too, lol.
 

Why? Why is it still a way low odds wise? Hot new coach, arguably a better coach than Dabo after each's first 3 years, at least, brand spanking new top notch, no, not top notch, instead a new "ELITE" Practice Facilities and Student Village to help with recruiting, and a roster chock full of returning starters who were only Sophs when they helped lead the Gophers to an 11-2 record, so just imagine how they'll do as jrs and srs?

If Fleck is able to pull in a recruiting class in the 20s in 2021, he'll be right on pace with how Dabo recruited his first couple seasons.

I have very high hopes for the Gophers football team under Fleck, and NO, he has no intentions to leave anytime soon. His dream was to coach in the B1G and here he is living his dream, coaching in the B1G. He won't start dreaming of something bigger or better until he's accomplished his goal, of getting Minnesota to the highest point possible, which I believe is a Natl Title, and proving to the entire cfb world that his philosophy/style of coaching, concentrating on an all encompassing culture is the best way for a non-blue blood to become a Natl Title contending program. And once he has accomplished that much, it won't matter if he stays or not. He may decide to stay around and turn UMn into a Dynasty, which would be great, but if he leaves after leading the Gophers to a Natl Title, then he'll have proven to the rest of the cfb world that a coach can win here, then we'll be able to hire a new coach and will not be anywhere as limited in who will be willing to coach here as we may have been in the past. I'm hoping he chooses to remain here until he retires, but if he moves on, well, it's what people do sometimes, but I don't buy all the bs about how he'll bolt for supposed greener pastures as soon as the first offer comes along, because how would that help him? How can he continue to sell his whole culture philosophy if he never sticks around anywhere long enough to see it through to fulfillment? I mean, if he DOES pull off a Natl Title here at Minnesota, it's a guaranteed ticket to the Hall of Fame, it's a #1 best selling book deal if he wants to go that route, and he'd be able to go wherever he wanted, and get paid more than any other coach in the nation. I think we should sign him to a lifetime contract, and build a statue of him, too, lol.


Do you watch college football?

Seen anyone else just make a Clemson type jump?
 

Do you watch college football?

Seen anyone else just make a Clemson type jump?

I realize the question wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer anyway. I watch quite a bit of college football. And I think Fleck can bring the Gophers back to national prominence. In fact, I'd say he already has.

I'd say there's a good chance the naysayers are going to have egg on their faces.
 

I realize the question wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer anyway. I watch quite a bit of college football. And I think Fleck can bring the Gophers back to national prominence. In fact, I'd say he already has.

I'd say there's a good chance the naysayers are going to have egg on their faces.

"National prominence" is a level that is way below Clemson and it's natty's.
 

Do you watch college football?

Seen anyone else just make a Clemson type jump?

Have you ever seen anyone do what Fleck has done with so little to work with? Not just once, BUT TWICE, as he made a similar big jump at WMU.
 

Have you ever seen anyone do what Fleck has done with so little to work with? Not just once, BUT TWICE, as he made a similar big jump at WMU.

Coaches have taken 9-4 teams and turned them into 11–2 teams... I'm pretty sure that's not entirely uncommon.

PJ has done a great job, but that's hardly Dabo-esqe, yet.
 



"National prominence" is a level that is way below Clemson and it's natty's.

Might as well throw in their 5 playoff appearances in a row and 4 out of 5 final appearances as a level way above "national prominence" too.

On another note, I'm sure Klime is focussing on offense when he talks about all the sophomores that helped lead will only get better. The D has Howden and part-time starter Sori-Marin that fall into that.
 


Interesting to note: Clemson hasn't been below .500 in the regular season since 1998 (21 years). They did go 6-7 (lost bowl game) in 2010.

Tommy Bowden resigned mid-season in 2008 after going 3-3; they were preseason #9 and picked to win ACC title. He was 72-45 at Clemson.
 

Interesting to note: Clemson hasn't been below .500 in the regular season since 1998 (21 years). They did go 6-7 (lost bowl game) in 2010.

Tommy Bowden resigned mid-season in 2008 after going 3-3; they were preseason #9 and picked to win ACC title. He was 72-45 at Clemson.


I like the B1G... but there are times where it would be nice to have low OOC quality ... conference games just to give the team a break a bit.
 




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