Five and four Star Gopher football recruits?

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LonelyIowaGopher

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I keep reading here about five and four star football recruits to the University of Minnesota football team. Since 2002, the Gophers haven't had one five star recruit and have averaged only two four star recruits per year over the previous eight years.
Of Brewster's thirteen four star recruits, four (Edwards, Lipscomb, Maresh and Simmons) aren't listed on the roster and Mayo Carpenter's been a complete bust. Why all the worry here about Kill not recruiting five and four star players?
 

I'd be very curious to see the list of 5 star recruits we've been able to land here over the past 30 years. The only one I know for a certainty was Octavius Gould, the Parade All American first team RB out of Pemberton, NJ back in 1986. He was recruited heavily by over 100 schools, and although we didn't land him initially, we did shockingly enough make his final list along with Ohio St., North Carolina, Miami, South Carolina, Florida, Washington, Oklahoma, Texas, and Florida State. He signed with Florida and played there his freshman year, but then transferred to Minnesota his sophomore season after Emmitt Smith burst so spectacularly onto the scene at UF, and Octavius saw the writing clearly on the wall.

I'm wondering if he wasn't our highest rated player ever (meaning in the past 30 or so years)?
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
I keep reading here about five and four star football recruits to the University of Minnesota football team. Since 2002, the Gophers haven't had one five star recruit and have averaged only two four star recruits per year over the previous eight years.
Of Brewster's thirteen four star recruits, four (Edwards, Lipscomb, Maresh and Simmons) aren't listed on the roster and Mayo Carpenter's been a complete bust. Why all the worry here about Kill not recruiting five and four star players?
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Edwards is on the roster (he is a redshirt freshman). Hayo Carpenter got five stars from Scout. :eek:
Simmons did his two years (he was a JUCO).
 

Seany said:
I'd be very curious to see the list of 5 star recruits we've been able to land here over the past 30 years. The only one I know for a certainty was Octavius Gould, the Parade All American first team RB out of Pemberton, NJ back in 1986. He was recruited heavily by over 100 schools, and although we didn't land him initially, we did shockingly enough make his final list along with Ohio St., North Carolina, Miami, South Carolina, Florida, Washington, Oklahoma, Texas, and Florida State. He signed with Florida and played there his freshman year, but then transferred to Minnesota his sophomore season after Emmitt Smith burst so spectacularly onto the scene at UF, and Octavius saw the writing clearly on the wall.

I'm wondering if he wasn't our highest rated player ever (meaning in the past 30 or so years)?
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Didn't Gould transfer here from Normandale CC or some such?
 



I don't remember what happened to Gould though. I know he only played one season here, and then he kind of disappeared, and whether that was due to injury or what, I have no idea. I do know he's made quite a success of himself in the business world though. He owns his own company and is apparently very well off.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
I keep reading here about five and four star football recruits to the University of Minnesota football team. Since 2002, the Gophers haven't had one five star recruit and have averaged only two four star recruits per year over the previous eight years.
Of Brewster's thirteen four star recruits, four (Edwards, Lipscomb, Maresh and Simmons) aren't listed on the roster and Mayo Carpenter's been a complete bust. Why all the worry here about Kill not recruiting five and four star players?
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You need 4 and 5 star recruits, but more importantly you need players that your peers also wanted (BCS schools). Carpenter was a bust, it happens. I'd still take my chances with anyone with a Florida offer. Lipscomb never made it to campus due to academics. Maresh had a serious illness followed by a fairly serious complication to that illness. Simmons started for two years and is currently in the NFL on San Diego's practice squad. Edwards was a redshirt freshman last season. You came up with 3 guys who failed as 4 star recruits and 2 of them were due to injury or illness and not ability.

I would much rather worry about a 4 star being a bust, than hope for a 2 or 3 star player with no offers from BCS teams to surprise.
 

I came up with very few...

What I came up with were very, very five and four star recruits that Minnesota has landed in the last eight years. From reading posts here, I was under the impression that people commenting were used to talking about the need to recruit five and four star recruits because they'd seen more than a few come to Minnesota. That is hardly the case.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
What I came up with were very, very five and four star recruits that Minnesota has landed in the last eight years. From reading posts here, I was under the impression that people commenting were used to talking about the need to recruit five and four star recruits because they'd seen more than a few come to Minnesota. That is hardly the case.
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I have some advice for you, LonleyIowaGopher. First impressions are very important. It is usually best for new posters to spend a little more time learning from long time GopherHole posters rather than starting too many threads, and making too many posts themselves. There are a lot of regular posters who really know what they are talking about when it comes to Gopher football. I have seen too many new posters get started on the wrong foot in GopherHole, and they have never been able to recover from it.
 



The Pope of Dinkytown said:
I have some advice for you, LonleyIowaGopher. It is usually best for new posters to spend a little more time learning from long time GopherHole posters rather than starting too many threads and making too many posts themselves. After all, first impressions are very important.
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Who cares if someone new starts a bunch of topics. What the hell do you want him to learn? If it wasn't for new members the board wouldn't be all that interesting.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
What I came up with were very, very five and four star recruits that Minnesota has landed in the last eight years. From reading posts here, I was under the impression that people commenting were used to talking about the need to recruit five and four star recruits because they'd seen more than a few come to Minnesota. That is hardly the case.
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You're right, we have a small sample size of big time recruits coming here and lighting the world on fire. On the other hand, we have a relatively decent sample size of highly rated recruits going elsewhere and making a difference. Such as Trevor Laws, Ryan Harris, John Carlson, Seantrel, Dominque Byrd, Michael Floyd, James L, etc. For every 3-4 of those guys there is one WLA. For every 2 star guy that flourishes into a Decker/Barber, there are more than 3-4 guys that don't stay on the team, let alone crack the starting line-up. It's not rocket science why people want higher rate recruits.
 

I do not belive the gophers have ever landed a 5 star rivals recruit in football. Even Michael Floyd was a 4 stat recruit (highest level 4 star). Royce White was a 5 star recruit in basketball (I believe #17 overall).
There are not very many 5 star recruits out there, and when they are a 5 star recruit, they are recruited by the big boys. We have gotten quite a few 4 star recruits though (jacobs, gray, maresh, carpenter, no play trey, green, a few more who never got into school- liscomb)
 

It'd be interesting to see a list of all of the guys who have garnered 4 starts who have actually walked into a classroom at the U of M since 2003 (throw out the guys who didn't qualify).
How many have there been?
Who are they?
How many have contributed?
How many of those who didn't make a contribution had serious injury problems.
How many have been some of the best players on the team?

Lawrence Maroney was the best player on the team for 3 seasons (cue people who argue maroney).
I would argue that Gray was the best player on the team last season.

In my estimation a 4 star player has been the best player on the team in 4 of the past 8 years....not bad considering there have been

2003: Maroney (star), Paris Hamilton (injury)
2004: none
2005: Alex Daniels (legal trouble, All Big-East)
2006: none
2007: Anthony Jacobs (contributor)
2008: Keanon Cooper (major contributor), M. Gray (contributor, soon to be a major contributor), Brandon Green (injury), Vincent Hill (DNQ), Sam Maresh (left program academic problems), D. Pittman (Injury), Traye Simmons (major contributor...fell off towards the end of career)
2009: Michael Carter (contributor), Hayo Carpenter (bust), H Lipscomb (DNQ)
2010: Lamonte Edwards (redshirt), Jimmy Gjere (redshirt),

In the past 7 years the gophers have signed 16 4 star players.
2 did not qualify
3 had serious injury problems
2 have left due to academic and/or legal trouble
1 was a complete bust
8 were guys who played significant time

Of all 16 guys, only 1 failed due to an obvious lack of talent (carpenter). Rivals, Scout, ESPN, ect do not specialize is evaluating who is going to be able to stay eligible or who will stay out of the police blotter, the specialize in evaluating talent. Of guys who stayed at the school and stayed healthy 8/9 contributed significant playing time. Compare that to the rate at which 3 star players got significant playing time for the gophers, try 2 starts, try 1 star, try no stars... eliminate guys who left for any reason at all. If you do the same thing I did since 2003 with the other players and find that 3 star or 2 star or no star players contribute on the field 89% of the time, I will buy the argument that these websites have no idea what they are doing.
 



Brandon Owens was a Scout 5 star in 2003 and the Nations #1 ranked safety.
 

Firejumper said:
Brandon Owens was a Scout 5 star in 2003 and the Nations #1 ranked safety.
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I was just going off of rivals. He would fit into the category of major injury....though I would say that he was a top 3 gopher defensive player over the past 8 years with Alex Daniels being an All Big East defensive end and Dom Jones being the best gopher D back since Tyrone Carter if not for his legal issue.
 

The Pope of Dinkytown said:
I have some advice for you, LonleyIowaGopher. First impressions are very important. It is usually best for new posters to spend a little more time learning from long time GopherHole posters rather than starting too many threads, and making too many posts themselves. There are a lot of regular posters who really know what they are talking about when it comes to Gopher football. I have seen too many new posters get started on the wrong foot in GopherHole, and they have never been able to recover from it.
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Pot.... meet kettle....

you long time poster,,,,, all of 13 posts...
 

WHB Brewer said:
Pot.... meet kettle....

you long time poster,,,,, all of 13 posts...
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LMAO, and no Gopher fan expects 5 star players. I do expect some 4 star players after the Gophers start winning again. But not too overly concerned with how many stars players have. Most 3 star players with a 5.6 or 5.7 ranking on rivals have several BCS offers.
 

Rosemountian said:
I was just going off of rivals. He would fit into the category of major injury....though I would say that he was a top 3 gopher defensive player over the past 8 years with Alex Daniels being an All Big East defensive end and Dom Jones being the best gopher D back since Tyrone Carter if not for his legal issue.
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Willie was All-Big Ten, I'll take that over Alex Daniels.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Willie was All-Big Ten, I'll take that over Alex Daniels.
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The Dallas Cowboys would rather have Daniels...so would I.
No Doubt Willie was the better gopher. Daniels is the better player though.

Should have said 3 most talented defensive players since Tyrone Carter, not best gophers. There are a bunch of gophers who were better gophers than Daniels and Jones.
 


The Pope of Dinkytown said:
I have some advice for you, LonleyIowaGopher. First impressions are very important. It is usually best for new posters to spend a little more time learning from long time GopherHole posters rather than starting too many threads, and making too many posts themselves. There are a lot of regular posters who really know what they are talking about when it comes to Gopher football. I have seen too many new posters get started on the wrong foot in GopherHole, and they have never been able to recover from it.
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Whatever.
 

60's Guy said:
Gopher Broke has this in another thread. I think it shows not all of the All Big Ten award winners are four star recruits.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/22910/how-all-big-ten-team-ranked-as-recruits

It's interesting.
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I saw this article the other day and also found it quite interesting. Pretty amazing that 11 of the 22 offense/defense players were 2 stars or less. This includes 3 unranked guys, 2 of which may be first round NFL draft choices (Carimi & Leshoure) Just goes to show that ranking of 18 year old kids can be a crap-shoot.
 

60's Guy said:
Gopher Broke has this in another thread. I think it shows not all of the All Big Ten award winners are four star recruits.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/22910/how-all-big-ten-team-ranked-as-recruits

It's interesting.
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Looking at raw numbers is completely ridiculous when analyzing recruiting rankings. You have to look at them as a whole.

The article points out these facts:

According to ESPN: The all Big Ten team consists of
1 5 star players
5 4 star players
6 3 star players
6 2 star players
2 1 star players
6 unranked players

it also ignores the fact that guys like Mikel Leshoure was a 3 star on rivals
JJ Watt was a 2 star on rivals
ect.
So all this article could possibly prove is that ESPN rankings suck.


Then take this into account. This year 1 5 star players made the All Big Ten team according to ESPN....according to ESPN, how many 5 star players are currently on Big Ten rosters? What percent of 5 star players currently in the Big Ten are on the all big ten team?
This year 5 4 star players made the All Big Ten team according to ESPN....according to ESPN, how many 4 star players are currently on Big Ten rosters? What percent of 4 star players currently in the Big Ten are on the all big ten team?
This year 6 3 star players made the All Big Ten team according to ESPN....according to ESPN, how many 3 star players are currently on Big Ten rosters? What percent of 3 star players currently in the Big Ten are on the all big ten team?
This year 6 2 star players made the All Big Ten team according to ESPN....according to ESPN, how many 2 star players are currently on Big Ten rosters? What percent of 2 star players currently in the Big Ten are on the all big ten team?
This year 6 1 star players made the All Big Ten team according to ESPN....according to ESPN, how many 1 star players are currently on Big Ten rosters? What percent of 1 star players currently in the Big Ten are on the all big ten team?
This year 6 unranked players made the All Big Ten team according to ESPN....according to ESPN, how many unranked players are currently on Big Ten rosters? What percent of unranked players currently in the Big Ten are on the all big ten team?
 

WHB Brewer said:
2 of which may be first round NFL draft choices (Carimi & Leshoure) Just goes to show that ranking of 18 year old kids can be a crap-shoot.
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They were both 3 stars on rivals.

All this proves is that when ESPN recruiting was breaking into the game in the early to mid 2000s they were not very good at evaluating yet.
 

Since we we're on the topic of top 4-5 star players becoming Gophers, someone mentioned a guy from '86 who transferred from UF. I can think of another top 4 star recruit and the #3 overall MLB who is now a Gopher after transferring from UF. Chaulk one more up on the 4 star player list. (TBD)
 

The Pope of Dinkytown said:
I have some advice for you, LonleyIowaGopher. First impressions are very important. It is usually best for new posters to spend a little more time learning from long time GopherHole posters rather than starting too many threads, and making too many posts themselves. There are a lot of regular posters who really know what they are talking about when it comes to Gopher football. I have seen too many new posters get started on the wrong foot in GopherHole, and they have never been able to recover from it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, wait until you have 13 posts like this dweeb, then you can talk *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# to anyone.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
I keep reading here about five and four star football recruits to the University of Minnesota football team. Since 2002, the Gophers haven't had one five star recruit and have averaged only two four star recruits per year over the previous eight years.
Of Brewster's thirteen four star recruits, four (Edwards, Lipscomb, Maresh and Simmons) aren't listed on the roster and Mayo Carpenter's been a complete bust. Why all the worry here about Kill not recruiting five and four star players?
Click to expand...


I'm beginning to see a definite trend here with Lonely's threads and posts. He knows enough about Gopher football to talk about it, and then takes a negative or condescending turn. I believe Mr. LGI is a beginner troll, and in his own incipit way, tries to start trouble. Do not fall into his trap.
 

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