ESPN: No one elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Curt Schilling requests removal from writers' ballot

[BleedGopher]

per ESPN:

For the first time since 1960, the membership of the National Baseball Hall of Fame will remain frozen.

No player on the Hall's 2021 Baseball Writers' Association of America ballot reached the 75% threshold needed for enshrinement in Cooperstown. The results of the voting were announced by Hall of Fame president Tim Mead on MLB Network on Tuesday night.

The leading vote-getter was controversial pitcher Curt Schilling, who was named on 71.1% of the ballots, 16 votes shy of the minimum needed for selection. Schilling was followed by all-time home run leader Barry Bonds (61.8%) and 354-game winner Roger Clemens (61.6) in the voting.

All three former All-Stars were in their ninth year of eligibility on the ballot, leaving them one more chance next winter. Players get 10 shots at enshrinement via the writers' voting before moving on to consideration by one of the Hall's various era-based veterans committees.

However, Schilling, in a lengthy letter to the Hall that he also posted to Facebook, asked to be removed from the writers' ballot next year.

"I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot. I'll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player," Schilling wrote. "I don't think I'm a hall of famer as I've often stated but if former players think I am then I'll accept that with honor."

No new members to HOF; Schilling asks off ballot

Voters did not elect any players to the Baseball Hall of Fame for 2021, it was announced Tuesday. Meanwhile, leading vote-getter Curt Schilling asked to be removed from next year's ballot.

www.espn.com

Go Jim Kaat and Tony Oliva!!

 

[Ope3]

I am guessing Schilling's odds are favorable as his career is pretty similar to Jack Morris, 40 less wins but lower ERA and lights out post-seasons for multiple WS winners. Morris also had to wait for the Vets to get into Cooperstown.

Politics aside, his general jackass rep may also work against him. Good thing Mitch Williams doesn't control his fate.

To be fair if all the jerks/egomaniacs/louts were removed, it wouldn't be much of a shrine. Class acts like Hank Aaron, Harmon Killebrew & Al Kaline are more the exception than the norm.

 

[coolhandgopher]

Unless Schilling goes deep end, figuratively if not literally, nukes the earth, he’ll likely make it with Veterans’ Committee-his play on the field warrants it, especially in context of his peers.

Outside of Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling (who all had their issues), there was not a candidate who screamed HOF for me-the likes of Todd Helton, Billy Wagner, Scott Rolen, Omar Vizquel (???) were all solid players but none of them ever screamed Hall of Fame to me during their careers. I guess I’m getting curmudgeonly, but it feels like the doors of the Hall are swinging pretty wide open these days (Harold Baines, most egregiously) while more veteran and deserving players such as Tony O, Kaat, Lou Whitaker remain on the sidelines.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Unless Schilling goes deep end, figuratively if not literally, nukes the earth, he’ll likely make it with Veterans’ Committee-his play on the field warrants it, especially in context of his peers.

Outside of Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling (who all had their issues), there was not a candidate who screamed HOF for me-the likes of Todd Helton, Billy Wagner, Scott Rolen, Omar Vizquel (???) were all solid players but none of them ever screamed Hall of Fame to me during their careers. I guess I’m getting curmudgeonly, but it feels like the doors of the Hall are swinging pretty wide open these days (Harold Baines, most egregiously) while more veteran and deserving players such as Tony O, Kaat, Lou Whitaker remain on the sidelines.

I'm in inclined to say Good for Schilling. The baseball HOF, the people who have ballots, it's one of the more ridiculous things in sports. I'm going to go out on a limb and say there are some people with ballots who think they are way, WAY more important than they are because they have ballots, like a bit of a power trip, ego trip. Kinda wish more and more players would call them out. Ballot-holders should not be bigger than the sport or the HOF. Don't give yourself that much credit, you're just a dude someone deemed should have a ballot. Those should get revisited more often than they probably are.

 

[Ope3]

I guess I’m getting curmudgeonly, but it feels like the doors of the Hall are swinging pretty wide open these days (Harold Baines, most egregiously) while more veteran and deserving players such as Tony O, Kaat, Lou Whitaker remain on the sidelines.

Baines is really a head scratcher.

In addition to the 3 players you named, the player I would really like to see get in is Tommy John. 288 Ws, come on' man. Also as an innovator, where would the game be without "Tommy John Surgery"? Seriously, that should count for something.

 

[BleedGopher]

Baines is really a head scratcher.

In addition to the 3 players you named, the player I would really like to see get in is Tommy John. 288 Ws, come on' man. Also as an innovator, where would the game be without "Tommy John Surgery"? Seriously, that should count for something.

If John is in, does "noted surgeon" Dr. James Andrews get in as a "contributor to the game?!"

Win Twins!!

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

If John is in, does "noted surgeon" Dr. James Andrews get in as a "contributor to the game?!"

Win Twins!!

Bleed hops in right before I was going to say that.

Dr. Andrews and the guy who developed arthroscopic surgery are should be in the hall.

Just think if arthroscopic surgery was around when Tony O was playing...

 

[Ope3]

If John is in, does "noted surgeon" Dr. James Andrews get in as a "contributor to the game?!"

Win Twins!!

I'll have to check on Dr Andrew's WAR and get back to you.

 

[Ope3]

Just saw a headline that removing Schilling's name from the ballot next year is against BWAA rules. Maybe now he will get in, that'll teach him.

 

[howeda7]

Just saw a headline that removing Schilling's name from the ballot next year is against BWAA rules. Maybe now he will get in, that'll teach him.

Schilling, Bonds and Clemens are all on their last year next year. I heard Bob Costas on the radio say he thinks they all get in as a "Hall of Shame" class together, but they didn't want them this year spoiling the induction of the 2020 class that was delayed.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Schilling -
216 career wins. three 20-win seasons. never won a Cy Young.
His "average" season for his career comes out to 15-10 with a 3.46 ERA.

Good - but Hall of Fame?

His claim to fame is that he came up with some big post-season performances.

On the flip side, by all accounts he is a total jackass who has p*ssed off a lot of people in baseball.

he had feuds with teammates, feuded with management, fought with sportswriters, and got fired by ESPN for making comments that were seen as sexist and/or bigoted.

the criteria for the HOF includes "character," and that gave writers a way to justify not voting for a guy they didn't like.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I am guessing Schilling's odds are favorable as his career is pretty similar to Jack Morris, 40 less wins but lower ERA and lights out post-seasons for multiple WS winners. Morris also had to wait for the Vets to get into Cooperstown.

Politics aside, his general jackass rep may also work against him. Good thing Mitch Williams doesn't control his fate.

To be fair if all the jerks/egomaniacs/louts were removed, it wouldn't be much of a shrine. Class acts like Hank Aaron, Harmon Killebrew & Al Kaline are more the exception than the norm.

It's funny as baseball players' jackassery level seems higher than the other major sports.

He's definitely not my shot of whiskey as he is sooooooo in love with himself, it even makes someone like me gag (my friend famously once quipped that if I could marry myself I would. I retorted, "why should I settle." - feel free to ignore me, lol). I think the "sock game" was mythologized beyond measure, crap I thought he's start throwing tunderbolts.

Also, I took some glee when his gaming company went caput.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Baines is really a head scratcher.

In addition to the 3 players you named, the player I would really like to see get in is Tommy John. 288 Ws, come on' man. Also as an innovator, where would the game be without "Tommy John Surgery"? Seriously, that should count for something.

Gimme some Tommy John any day of the week!

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Schilling -
216 career wins. three 20-win seasons. never won a Cy Young.
His "average" season for his career comes out to 15-10 with a 3.46 ERA.

Good - but Hall of Fame?

His claim to fame is that he came up with some big post-season performances.

On the flip side, by all accounts he is a total jackass who has p*ssed off a lot of people in baseball.

he had feuds with teammates, feuded with management, fought with sportswriters, and got fired by ESPN for making comments that were seen as sexist and/or bigoted.

the criteria for the HOF includes "character," and that gave writers a way to justify not voting for a guy they didn't like.

The HOF is full of people who had average to above-average numbers but had multiple big moments in the postseason. The postseason is where you separate yourself and where you can make a name for yourself. Too often given to guys who just played a really long time, which kind of misses the mark to me.

Bury it in any of the other noise that you want, but don't deny or ignore that at least some part of Schilling's issue right now is support for the previous Prez. At least be honest. You're trying really hard here to pile on a bunch of other things but this is really one of the primary issues at the moment.

I don't know if he's HOF worthy, I really don't (and I'm not a major Schilling fan) but I would much rather give a guy the nod to the Hall that had multiple big moments in the postseason than for some of the guys you see who are basically "lifetime achievement award" guys; played 18-20+ years, but were never outstanding or the best at their position at any point during their careers.

Similarly in the NFL, off the top of my head I'm thinking of guys like Frank Gore and Philip Rivers; really really good players but man, I have a hard time giving them the nod just because they played so damn long. Eli Manning and Rivers in the same draft year, Rivers probably by far the better QB, but Eli won two Super Bowls (one of them one of the greatest upsets in SB history). Both are kinda near the fence but I would easily give the nod to Manning over Rivers.

How about golf? John Daly? Not very many PGA Tour wins but two majors, and a HUGE gallery draw. I'd have to think about putting him in the golf HOF for sure.

 

[Ope3]

Also, I took some glee when his gaming company went caput.

Yeah, blowing through $75million. That's a big time whiff.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Yeah, blowing through $75million. That's a big time whiff.

How do you not buy muni bonds with 10 of that just as a stop gap

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Well that was interesting. I just listened to a decent interview with Schilling right now. Some of it insightful, some just reinforcing what many have already said.

A lot of his decision to ask to be withdrawn from the ballot involves his wife currently going through chemo for breast cancer and the personal attacks and abuse he's been receiving from writers and ballot holders about why they did NOT vote for him just isn't worth it at this time.

He mentioned the "character clause", which is a joke; there's a known (possibly convicted?) pedophile in the HOF as a writer and when it came up, the writers that supported the writer said he should stay in the HOF because of his writing skills. Ummmm, what?? Followed it up with saying if the character clause were that significant, Jim Thome would have gotten 100% of the vote and Dale Murphy would have been a 1st ballot HOF. Other players been selected that beat their wives, one that beat an elderly man, cheat on their wives on the road all over the country, et al.

The writers, 80% white and 90% male, talking to people about racism and diversity is a joke, he added.

Bottom line, the consensus seems to be that if he were a Bernie Bro or a Biden supporter, he would have been voted in, without question. He told a story about a Philly writer whom he had been good friends with and who had been in his house and knew his kids well had now recently made an attempt to get Schilling removed from the Phillies HOF wall.

This is how clueless these guys are; he told a story of a writer in Cincinnati who shortly after one of the Hall votes, walked into the Cincinnati locker room and loudly and proudly claimed that they did NOT vote for Nolan Ryan because if Don Sutton didn't get unanimous votes, than nobody should.

These guys take themselves way too seriously, they want to insert themself into the story and make themselves part of the story; they think they wield entirely too much power by holding that ballot, they're frauds.

Again, I don't know if he's got the numbers or the resume but you're kidding yourself if you don't think this is political. Personally, I would rather be judged and voted on by the players committee anyway. Much more meaningful and representative in my opinion.

 

[Ope3]

Bottom line, the consensus seems to be that if he were a Bernie Bro or a Biden supporter, he would have been voted in, without question. He told a story about a Philly writer whom he had been good friends with and who had been in his house and knew his kids well had now recently made an attempt to get Schilling removed from the Phillies HOF wall.

Again, I don't know if he's got the numbers or the resume but you're kidding yourself if you don't think this is political. Personally, I would rather be judged and voted on by the players committee anyway. Much more meaningful and representative in my opinion.

Jack Morris did not get elected by the BWAA, as I mentioned similar stats & career arc as Schilling. Morris was the ace on 3 different World Series teams and looked upon the best pitcher in the 80s. His political views had zilch with not getting into the HoF. He was eventually admitted by Vets.

Schilling may too, but I would say get in line, behind Kaat and John.

As for being "more meaningful", I think that takes a hit with the election of Harold Baines who was nothing more than a solid player.

While yes Schilling's politics and personality are having an effect on his election, it's reasonable for some of the electors to be keeping him out based on statistical merit as SON pointed out. Both things can be true.

 

[Gophers1992]

Schilling had a far superior career to Morris on the field, it's not even close.

Schilling is likely being kept out due to his off the field behavior, and frankly I have no issue with it as he has done this to himself.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Schilling had a far superior career to Morris on the field, it's not even close.

Schilling is likely being kept out due to his off the field behavior, and frankly I have no issue with it as he has done this to himself.

Morris 254 career wins to 216 for Schilling.

And Morris also led teams to World Series titles.

I would put Morris as slightly better than Schilling when you take everything into consideration. Morris was also more consistent. Schilling had some very ordinary or below-average seasons during his career.

 

[Gophers1992]

Morris 254 career wins to 216 for Schilling.

And Morris also led teams to World Series titles.

I would put Morris as slightly better than Schilling when you take everything into consideration. Morris was also more consistent. Schilling had some very ordinary or below-average seasons during his career.

Morris 254 career wins to 216 for Schilling.

And Morris also led teams to World Series titles.

I would put Morris as slightly better than Schilling when you take everything into consideration. Morris was also more consistent. Schilling had some very ordinary or below-average seasons during his career.

With all due respect, no reputable analyst looks at pitcher wins anymore, it's an extremely flawed statistic. Schilling beats Morris in ERA, WHIP, Strikeouts (despite fewer innings), and countless advanced stats that I won't bother getting into.

Also, Schilling has 3 rings of his own and far better postseason numbers than Morris. There's really no logical argument for Morris being the better pitcher. Morris has no business being in the HOF, Schilling's situation is much more complicated because he's being held out (legitimately IMO) for character reasons.

 

[Ope3]

If John is in, does "noted surgeon" Dr. James Andrews get in as a "contributor to the game?!"

Win Twins!!

I was curious about the "Tommy John Surgery" and looked it up, it was actually Dr Frank Jobe that performed that one. Other interesting wiki items:

- Since they were unsure how long it would last, he waited 2 years before performing another one.
- John actually won more games after the procedure (124 before / 164 after)
- Sandy Koufax was bummed that he did not try out the surgery on him
- He has been considered for the HoF, while not admitted he was honored in a Cooperstown ceremony on induction weekend, 2013