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Moses87

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Just watched the game from my DVR as I wasn't able to watch live. The biggest winners on the night were Elliot and Julian. I came away very impressed with those two and their performances. Both made huge contributions and easily had their best games of the young season. Welch knocked down a couple of huge baskets with the shot clock winding down did a credible job helping take care of the ball and running our offense. Eliason actually had 4 blocks (2 were more like slight grazes that weren't credited somehow...should have). EE's defense and rebounding were 2 huge keys to the game in my estimation as our 1st half lead grew to double figures. I haven't seen him play this well since last year in the NIT at Miami, where he was also huge. We need him to be more consistent. I was on the verge of writing off EE and Welch before tonight.

Moving forward, Ingram, Oto and Walker appear to be the odd men out, barring injuries.

I think Walker will play when we play bigger teams when Mbakwe or EE gets into early foul trouble. Ingram only played about 2 or 3 minutes tonight and didn't really factor at all. Oto had one nice play...Its always interesting to see him on the court....he has flashes where he looks like a player and other flashes where he simply looks waaaaay in over his head. I think Oto will get a chance to contribute before the Big season starts. I think Mo and Ingram may have a long season waving towels on the bench.

Ahanmisi got benched just before the 1st half ended after a sloppy turnover and didn't return. I actually think Ahanmisi will be decent and help us occasionally. Looks like Welch will become Dre's primary backup for now. and may even sub for Austin or Joe from time to time. Good night for Welch, great night for the Gophers!
 

Welch>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mav. He needs to be the backup point, his ball handling skills are far superior. He also should be backing up Joe Coleman, and this would give him a solid 20 mpg. Once the B10 starts, Oto, Mav, and Walker should be on the bench. IMO, Ingram offers more than Walker.
 

It looks to me like any one of these guys is capable of stepping up and having a nice game on any given night. That will go a long way during B1G season.
 

Yes congrats to both EE and Welch big supporting nights and we will need them! EE had great hands and played tough. Welch found his stroke and like all good shooters it seemed to help the rest of his game. Walker will have a few games where he will contribute but this should be a sign that if he doesn't lose weight so he can run the floor and play defense outside the lane he might not play. Maverick was our second best bench player until last night. When Oto is playing the 4 versus the 3 and when he stays inside he makes less mistakes. He can occassionaly score in the post, pass from there, and seems to be a decent defensive rebouder. Lets let him get comfortable playing the 4 and maybe in years to come that outside shot will reappear.
 

WILLBGOPHER said:
Welch>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mav. He needs to be the backup point, his ball handling skills are far superior. He also should be backing up Joe Coleman, and this would give him a solid 20 mpg. Once the B10 starts, Oto, Mav, and Walker should be on the bench. IMO, Ingram offers more than Walker.
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wow you really are negative towards mav! mav isnt a great player but he is a serviceable guard. mav can play much better defense then welch because ma is pretty quick. welch is really slow and it can drive me nuts, but on the flip side welch is a better ball handler and a better shooter of the dribble. i like how tubby keeps playing the guy that is hot when it comes to mav and welch. i really dont see a clear cut senario where welch is better than mav and vice versa.

it was great to see EE have a game, he has had a rough start and last night he was tough. Oto had a nice post up shot when wee had our "no offense" group on the floor. It troublled me to see mbakwe get so frustrated with the game, he doesnt have his strength back yet, he isnt used to being pushed around. He is kind of reminding me of colt 45 and the quick fouls, mbakwe has had a rough start and i really hope he gets a lot of PT on saturday with a home crowd on his side.

last nght showed our strength with the 3 headed monster of andre, austin, and rodney. snaaer was harrassed all night and was never able to get into a rythm, w/o checking stats i hardly remember him scoring--he must have barely hit double digits.

and the last thing in my positivity rant this morning, free throws, has rodney ever in his career gone 5/5? tubby has put an emphasis on free throws and what a difference it makes. mbakwe's airball was funny last night, but homeboy puts a ton of arc on the ball.
 


Not ready to say he is back after so many bad games. Tubby gave Joe 35mpg and stronly perferes him. As some have pointed out, his best chance to earn more minutes it to beat out Mav (which he should be able to do).
 

I wasn't aware they ever left.

Are players no longer allowed to struggle or have unproductive stretches throughout the course of a long season, without people writing them off? I missed that memo.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I wasn't aware they ever left.

Are players no longer allowed to struggle or have unproductive stretches throughout the course of a long season, without people writing them off? I missed that memo.
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Watching them in the Bahamas and it appeared like they (EE and JW) might be on their way to obscurity...But both of them made strong statements yesterday. Welch only played 13 minutes, but it was easily his most efficient display in a Gopher uniform. 3-4 shooting, 2 assists and 0 Turnovers. That's exactly what we need from him and I expect we'll see his minutes increase if he can continue that kinda production.
 

"Welch>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mav. He needs to be the backup point, his ball handling skills are far superior. He also should be backing up Joe Coleman, and this would give him a solid 20 mpg."

I'm not sure if you have seen the games this season, but last night was the first game all season that Julian has played better than Maverick. Neither Maverick or Julian handle the ball very well.
 



SelectionSunday said:
I wasn't aware they ever left.

Are players no longer allowed to struggle or have unproductive stretches throughout the course of a long season, without people writing them off? I missed that memo.
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SS. Bingo!!! With the advent of the Instant Gratification crowd, who obviously have never played the game or contributed to a game, their opinions rule.

I have yet to play a game with, play a game against, coached in any game, had a coach in any game, not have a player with a couple of mistakes during a game that did not add more than they gave away. But, Big Time College Basketball is simply a video game.

You, SS, need to remember that if a Gopher Player isn't perfect every moment on the floor, that player needs to ride the pine. :banghead:
 

Dr.Don said:
SS. Bingo!!! With the advent of the Instant Gratification crowd, who obviously have never played the game or contributed to a game, their opinions rule.

I have yet to play a game with, play a game against, coached in any game, had a coach in any game, not have a player with a couple of mistakes during a game that did not add more than they gave away. But, Big Time College Basketball is simply a video game.

You, SS, need to remember that if a Gopher Player isn't perfect every moment on the floor, that player needs to ride the pine. :banghead:
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You constantly assuming no one on this site has ever played or coached basketball is amazing to me. Someone makes a comment you disagree with and its instantly "obviously you never played the game" or some *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# like that. Don't you think most people on this site who like and follow basketball played at some point? Relax with that line, its getting old fast.

I do agree with SS that guys are going to have bad games. However, I think that they were losing minutes to other guys when in the Bahamas and the OP was happy to see them back on the floor being productive. No one can say EE has had a good start to the season. I am happy he played well last night, we will need multiple bigs when we get to the B1G.

Now I am going to go play basketball. It is actually my first time but at least now I will have some better opinions because I'll have played and contributed to a game.
 

What I think is nice about having so much depth is that if one guy is really struggling, you have someone else to put in. Maverick having a bad night? Then Welch gets more minutes. Mbakwe not playing very well? Then Ingram, EE, and Walker get more minutes. We have four guys (Hollins, Hollins, Coleman, and Williams) that will get 25-30 minutes every night. The other seven guys will be fighting for playing time. That's not a bad thing.
 

While i dont agree with the comments on EE, his lack of hands and dumb fouls drive me nuts, I do agree with you on that stupid line you keep seeing on this board. You've never coached, you've never played, you've never been in the trenches. Very old.

khoffman43 said:
You constantly assuming no one on this site has ever played or coached basketball is amazing to me. Someone makes a comment you disagree with and its instantly "obviously you never played the game" or some *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# like that. Don't you think most people on this site who like and follow basketball played at some point? Relax with that line, its getting old fast.

I do agree with SS that guys are going to have bad games. However, I think that they were losing minutes to other guys when in the Bahamas and the OP was happy to see them back on the floor being productive. No one can say EE has had a good start to the season. I am happy he played well last night, we will need multiple bigs when we get to the B1G.

Now I am going to go play basketball. It is actually my first time but at least now I will have some better opinions because I'll have played and contributed to a game.
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The point of this thread is that those 2 players entire outlook for the rest of the season has suddenly gotten a lot brighter in my view...Maybe SS and Doc knew all along they'd be solid contributors...I guess I would have more insights if I had "played" the game.
 

lakesgopher said:
wow you really are negative towards mav! mav isnt a great player but he is a serviceable guard. mav can play much better defense then welch because ma is pretty quick. welch is really slow and it can drive me nuts, but on the flip side welch is a better ball handler and a better shooter of the dribble. i like how tubby keeps playing the guy that is hot when it comes to mav and welch. i really dont see a clear cut senario where welch is better than mav and vice versa.

it was great to see EE have a game, he has had a rough start and last night he was tough. Oto had a nice post up shot when wee had our "no offense" group on the floor. It troublled me to see mbakwe get so frustrated with the game, he doesnt have his strength back yet, he isnt used to being pushed around. He is kind of reminding me of colt 45 and the quick fouls, mbakwe has had a rough start and i really hope he gets a lot of PT on saturday with a home crowd on his side.

last nght showed our strength with the 3 headed monster of andre, austin, and rodney. snaaer was harrassed all night and was never able to get into a rythm, w/o checking stats i hardly remember him scoring--he must have barely hit double digits.

and the last thing in my positivity rant this morning, free throws, has rodney ever in his career gone 5/5? tubby has put an emphasis on free throws and what a difference it makes. mbakwe's airball was funny last night, but homeboy puts a ton of arc on the ball.[/QUOTE

I'm not sure how you can say mav plays good defense, as he allows dribble penetration at will. Mav simply cannot bring up the ball against pressure defense. It's really not that hard to see watching the games. Julian is different, he can handle the ball well, but will occasionally have bad passes. It is very important for the point guard to get the team into offensive sets. Do you ever remember Mav setting up one of our players for a dunk or easy basket? Welch has had a couple great dimes in the last 2 games in very limited minutes.

Unless you really like 11-12 man rotations, someone must be riding the pine. It is just my opinion that mav should be one of them. Oto and Big Mo too - until Mo dedicates himself to getting into shape and loosing some weight.
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khoffman43 said:
You constantly assuming no one on this site has ever played or coached basketball is amazing to me. Someone makes a comment you disagree with and its instantly "obviously you never played the game" or some *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# like that. Don't you think most people on this site who like and follow basketball played at some point? Relax with that line, its getting old fast.




I do agree with SS that guys are going to have bad games. However, I think that they were losing minutes to other guys when in the Bahamas and the OP was happy to see them back on the floor being productive. No one can say EE has had a good start to the season. I am happy he played well last night, we will need multiple bigs when we get to the B1G.

Now I am going to go play basketball. It is actually my first time but at least now I will have some better opinions because I'll have played and contributed to a game.
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Really- if any of us actually knew anything about basketball we wouldn't be posting on this website.
I've played and coached enough basketball to know that I don't know a thing or two about basketball.
 

Hammer em' said:
Really- if any of us actually knew anything about basketball we wouldn't be posting on this website.
I've played and coached enough basketball to know that I don't know a thing or two about basketball.
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Awesome Hammer. The difference is, you recognize that, and our experts don't. Well done.
 

Hammer em' said:
Really- if any of us actually knew anything about basketball we wouldn't be posting on this website.
I've played and coached enough basketball to know that I don't know a thing or two about basketball.
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Can't argue with that. But I can argue with Dr. Don citing that as a reason no one else knows anything.
 

WILLBGOPHER said:
lakesgopher said:
wow you really are negative towards mav! mav isnt a great player but he is a serviceable guard. mav can play much better defense then welch because ma is pretty quick. welch is really slow and it can drive me nuts, but on the flip side welch is a better ball handler and a better shooter of the dribble. i like how tubby keeps playing the guy that is hot when it comes to mav and welch. i really dont see a clear cut senario where welch is better than mav and vice versa.

it was great to see EE have a game, he has had a rough start and last night he was tough. Oto had a nice post up shot when wee had our "no offense" group on the floor. It troublled me to see mbakwe get so frustrated with the game, he doesnt have his strength back yet, he isnt used to being pushed around. He is kind of reminding me of colt 45 and the quick fouls, mbakwe has had a rough start and i really hope he gets a lot of PT on saturday with a home crowd on his side.

last nght showed our strength with the 3 headed monster of andre, austin, and rodney. snaaer was harrassed all night and was never able to get into a rythm, w/o checking stats i hardly remember him scoring--he must have barely hit double digits.

and the last thing in my positivity rant this morning, free throws, has rodney ever in his career gone 5/5? tubby has put an emphasis on free throws and what a difference it makes. mbakwe's airball was funny last night, but homeboy puts a ton of arc on the ball.[/QUOTE

I'm not sure how you can say mav plays good defense, as he allows dribble penetration at will. Mav simply cannot bring up the ball against pressure defense. It's really not that hard to see watching the games. Julian is different, he can handle the ball well, but will occasionally have bad passes. It is very important for the point guard to get the team into offensive sets. Do you ever remember Mav setting up one of our players for a dunk or easy basket? Welch has had a couple great dimes in the last 2 games in very limited minutes.

Unless you really like 11-12 man rotations, someone must be riding the pine. It is just my opinion that mav should be one of them. Oto and Big Mo too - until Mo dedicates himself to getting into shape and loosing some weight.
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mav keeps his defender in front of him and allows the bigs to adjust shots, weelch cant stay in front of his man at all because he has naia speed. btw, every player gives up dribble penetration during the game. it happens, mav is consistently in front of his man and i will take that compared to watching welch chase his man to the rim. i just dont see mav as this huge handicap like some of the posters on gh. the kid plays well and is ripped, the kid plays poorly and is torn apart like he cant walk and chew gum. we are 7-1 and mav has played very weell this season. if you cant get over that i guess there lies the issue with mav. IMO mav has outplayed weelch easily this season and thats a positive. welch is also a player i like a lot he brings things to the table that mav cannot. welch has had the better career at minny, he is more consistant, but this season has been very good for mav and im proud of him. Im not going to be an a-hole that says a player on the roster that has played poorly in the past cant improve, mav has absolutely improved
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I agree that Mav has done pretty well in limited minutes...Its kinda like the 1991 Platoon TK used at 3rd base...Mike Pags was awesome as long as he didn't have to face lefties and the same can be said for Scott Leius vs Righties...Mav is limited and would be exposed if he had to play prolonged minutes against our opponents best players. But against certain reserves and in limited minutes, he can be effective and efficient.
 

lakesgopher said:
WILLBGOPHER said:
No doubt he has improved, as with every player on the roster (with the exception of Oto's shooting). But a point guard needs to be able to dribble against pressure, and this is where Mav completely falls apart. Not ripping on the kid, Tubby is the one putting him in a situation to fail. Mav would be better against more passive defenses, or zones. As the season rolls on, i predict Welch will be the back up point.
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WILLBGOPHER said:
lakesgopher said:
WILLBGOPHER said:
No doubt he has improved, as with every player on the roster (with the exception of Oto's shooting). But a point guard needs to be able to dribble against pressure, and this is where Mav completely falls apart. Not ripping on the kid, Tubby is the one putting him in a situation to fail. Mav would be better against more passive defenses, or zones. As the season rolls on, i predict Welch will be the back up point.
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mav looked pretty good vs dukes pressure...just saying
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The more each of these guys realizes they are role players, the better, and they can play pivotal roles.

The Big E just needs to play within himself, be in good position, and realizes he is 7 feet tall. Tall can not be taught, and it is nearly impossible to shoot or rebound over a player his size.

Welch needs to play under control, be in good position, and get his feet set. Folks don't realize how good of a shooter he is from everywhere inside 22 feet if his feet are set.
 

WILLBGOPHER said:
lakesgopher said:
WILLBGOPHER said:
No doubt he has improved, as with every player on the roster (with the exception of Oto's shooting). But a point guard needs to be able to dribble against pressure, and this is where Mav completely falls apart. Not ripping on the kid, Tubby is the one putting him in a situation to fail. Mav would be better against more passive defenses, or zones. As the season rolls on, i predict Welch will be the back up point.
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I don't understand why many are so negative about Mav's game last night. He had a bad turnover? Yes, but he had two great run to the basket and drew two fouls. I can't believe how much garbage is written on this board. Do you people really know what you are talking about?

Go Gophers
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I miss the sound of announcers saying Welch is "old school".

I never knew what the hell they meant by it...but I miss it.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
WILLBGOPHER said:
lakesgopher said:
I don't understand why many are so negative about Mav's game last night. He had a bad turnover? Yes, but he had two great run to the basket and drew two fouls. I can't believe how much garbage is written on this board. Do you people really know what you are talking about?

Go Gophers
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No i don't watch the games, just write on this board...

Stats for the year:

Welch 15 assists, 7 TO's
Mav 10 assists, 9 TO's

2:1 assit to TO ratio is much better that a 1:1, isn't it?

My point is not to rip Mav, but is that Julian should be getting more minutes (and will - see last nights game)

Maybe you like playing 11-12 players a game, but i think the rotation could go down during the B10 and would help the team win big when it counts. Mav will be here next year to be the back up point.
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Almost everybody realized that Julian was not playing as well as Mav until last night. That's why the coach that some on here love to hate kept playing Julian last night. He wanted him to gain his confidence back as he did to some degree. You and people like you who constantly bash this HOF coach just make a fool of yourself. You don't get to be where you are if you didn't know what you were doing as a coach. The whole world praises this man for his coaching ability except a few here who think they know much but they don't. We have read it all. Some make fun of his timouts, some make fun of his subs (FSU's coach did the same sub last night whe he took all 5 out so it is not just Tubby)...... Now, you tell us that Tubby puts Mav in a position to fail????? My goodness I am tired of reading these posts. I hope that Tubby get multi million dollar contract after a good season and leave. He will get better treatment anywhere in the country than this.

Go Gophers
 

Don't waste your time with surly Don. Following his thinking, nobody on here should ever offer an opinion, especially if it questions Tubby in any way. After all, he's the coach, he's won a NC, and therefore he never makes mistakes. We're just self-appointed "experts" so it's impossible for us to ever recognize questionable coaching decisions.

khoffman43 said:
Can't argue with that. But I can argue with Dr. Don citing that as a reason no one else knows anything.
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