Don't fire TC (based on today's facts)

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fmlizard

fmlizard

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Don't fire Tracy Claeys over this. It's tempting to say that the second Jerry Kill left there was some huge degradation in the "culture" of the program, or some relaxation of discipline. Nonsense. He hadn't even been away a year when this went down. Most of the involved players were recruited by Kill, Claeys, and the same staff. It's mostly the same position coaches -- the guys players really interact with. It's not as if the second Kill left, TC called a meeting and said "OK, we can chill now, Jerry's gone" If Coach Kill was still here there's about a 99% chance he would be digging through the same mess right now.

We've got a habit in our society of assigning way too much glory to leadership when things go well, and too much blame when they go foul. There's a limit to what TC should be held responsible for on a Friday night off campus among a bunch of drunk 17-20 year olds. The issue with the recruit is the only one I can hold him responsible for.

If we followed the same logic, Kaler and Coyle should be out because sexual assault (allegedly) occurred among students and athletes on their watch. Heck, impeach Gov. Dayton because something bad happened in his state on his watch. You can't control the actions of others all the time, even when you are their coach/boss/authority figure. You can control the way you respond to those actions, and by all measures it appears Coach Claeys did everything that wasn't done at Baylor, Penn State, etc.

From what we know now, when confronted with this situation, TC promptly suspended the players involved. He went along with all legal obligations and recommendations, and it sounds like he signed off on the literal decimation of his team. When all the dust finally clears from this I'm hopeful that some of the positives will be that the U took this seriously and didn't engage in any type of cover up. Hasn't that been the post-mortem recommendation for cases like these all over the land?
 

Fire TC, completely incapable of being the all encompassing CEO a football HC needs to be.
 

Claeys didn't suspend anyone and tweeted that he supported the players boycott
 

He just might be the lamb in all of this. I still think it should be the two in charge, but I doubt that happens.
 

upnorthkid said:
Claeys didn't suspend anyone and tweeted that he supported the players boycott
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We've heard from many sources that he approved (they would have happened anyway) the suspensions of the players. Which does make the tweet more puzzling. But I also read the tweet as pretty generically supportive of the players' rights and their unity, and an attempt to avoid an adversarial situation with his entire team. There's at least some concern in my mind about how he couldn't tamp this boycott down some behind closed doors, but this type of team rebellion has been simmering in NCAA athletics for awhile now. We're just the lucky ones to have it happen here. :(

My point is that some nebulous notion of "culture", comprised of one single off campus incident among mostly freshmen, shouldn't get him fired -- he just took the job! -- only his own bad actions or inactions should.
 


fmlizard said:
My point is that some nebulous notion of "culture", comprised of one single off campus incident among mostly freshmen, shouldn't get him fired -- he just took the job! -- only his own bad actions or inactions should.
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Wouldn't that "culture" also include a lack of discipline on the football field? Saw plenty of that.
 

He was put in a no win situation. Supporting his players was the right move.
 


Layers of problems in this program. Claeys will walk or be let go in January...No inside info just opinion.
 



Are you aware that their grades and graduation rate are stellar?
 


Claeys support of the boycott alone should get him fired. He has no team control whatsoever. He has accepted a culture where players treat women like crap. I am more offended by what has happened since the EOCC report leaked. The players didn't dispute standing in line to screw a drunk woman. Their tweets reveal their completely offensive view of women. That anyone would stand by them is offensive...as if expulsion is too much. A good number of them should be in prison but the woman was too drunk to remember things.
 

CoMn said:
Claeys support of the boycott alone should get him fired. He has no team control whatsoever. He has accepted a culture where players treat women like crap. I am more offended by what has happened since the EOCC report leaked. The players didn't dispute standing in line to screw a drunk woman. Their tweets reveal their completely offensive view of women. That anyone would stand by them is offensive...as if expulsion is too much. A good number of them should be in prison but the woman was too drunk to remember things.
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So you were a big supporter of Claeys before this huh? :rolleyes:
 



fmlizard said:
From what we know now, when confronted with this situation, TC promptly suspended the players involved. He went along with all legal obligations and recommendations, and it sounds like he signed off on the literal decimation of his team.
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Those are the very things we don't know. There are several threads dedicated to these questions.
 


Claeys' tweet demonstrated he is not sophisticated enough to be a HC at a Power 5 school. Really dumb.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Supporting his players was the right move but he just did it in a very stupid way. I don't support firing TC but he needs to clarify his tweet. It should go something like this:

"I support every one of my players except the ones who where involved in the gang bang of a girl who had too much to drink and asked them to stop after the whole despicable activity got started. I will not tolerate that kind of behavior from any player on my team and if I ever find out about something like that happening the players involved will not play another down of football for me ever again."
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Don't know how a tweet works huh?
 


stocker08 said:
He was put in a no win situation. Supporting his players was the right move.
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Supporting his players was the right move but he just did it in a very stupid way. I don't support firing TC but he needs to clarify his tweet. It should go something like this:

"I support every one of my players except the ones who where involved in the gang bang of a girl who had too much to drink and asked them to stop after the whole despicable activity got started. I will not tolerate that kind of behavior from any player on my team and if I ever find out about something like that happening the players involved will not play another down of football for me ever again."
 


...but the woman was too drunk to remember things.
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Apparently not.

There is plenty of BS along with the "facts". I am certainly not blaming the victim.

We always tend to blur the facts when is comes to something as salacious as sex. Anything goes between consenting adults...unless it doesn't. "Consent" is consent...unless it isn't. "I was too drunk to remember"...except for all the facts that the case stands upon.

I don't know what happened, but the players and the cheerleader do...100%. They were all wrong to be in that room, and bad sh1t happened.
 

Have you guys ever considered that maybe Claeys was speaking in general and not of this situation? I mean he could have worded it better, but I truly believe what Claeys tweeted was taken incorrectly. For instance, he could have just meant that he is proud of his players for all standing up for something. I think they have no choice but to keep him at least next year because it would totally make the team more volatile, and there even be more transfers than what may happen at this point. Beyond next year, I guess they can do whatever depending on how Claeys does.
 

RolGnav said:
Have you guys ever considered that maybe Claeys was speaking in general and not of this situation? I mean he could have worded it better, but I truly believe what Claeys tweeted was taken incorrectly. For instance, he could have just meant that he is proud of his players for all standing up for something.
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He just had the entire Twin Cities media in his football facility. He might want to clarify then
 

I've never seen a first year coach put under a microscope as I've seen with Claeys. Usually people are patient, understanding, and allow for some growth during their first year. I think the majority of us would be fired from our jobs as rookies if we were to meet the expectations of a 5 or 10 year worker. Even Strong admitted he made some mistakes at Texas and he has been around a bit. Claeys wants to win and so do we. Let him learn. He's had a lot in his first year.
 

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