Directive vs. Instinctive players

Donate To GopherHole
B

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
59,334
Reaction score
22,669
Points
113
One of the interesting comments Flip made about this team was the idea that there are players that are directive players and instinctive players. Instinctive players tend to do what is necessary as they see it - they act instinctively while directive players will hesitate if things break down from the pattern. He mentioned that Olidipo is a great example of an instinctive player who just reacts and make plays. Obviously Tyus Jones is that type of kid. Saunders said that a team can have trouble if there are too many directive players- you can have them- just not too many. He suggested that the Gophers- though talented have too many directive players. I'm not sure I have a total understanding of the concept but going down the lineup:

Directive:
Rodney
Austin
Eliasson
Coleman
Oto
Maverick
Welch
Ingram

Instinctive:
Mbakwe
Dre
Mo
Wally
Buggs - guessing a bit form the bits we've seen


Guys we had with Tubby that were instinctive:
Abu Shamala
Westbrook
Nolen
Hoff
Carter (left)
Bostick (never blossomed)
Cobbs (left)
Joseph (left)
Iverson (left)
Armelin (left -edited addition)

I think there is some evidence that Tubby may not gel with the instinctve guys or may not max those guys out- at least while here. Certainly in his past he had guys like Rondo who was instinctive and others.

Anyway- it's an interesting concept and certainly part of the recruiting mindset as well as how you coach these guys.
 

I was listening to the show when Flip was on, and I agree with your assessment of the conversation beeg.

I agree with your list above for the most part - not sure TM is as instinctive as directive, unless of course he has regressed - which is possible.

Wally appears - albeit in very limited action - to be very instinctive. Mo is as well, it is just too bad he isnt about 30 lbs lighter.

My thought is tubby's coaching removes/limits players instinctive play. There is always a hesitation prior to moving the ball with the Gophs; watch Iowa move the ball and see what happens? It is painful to say that, since one of my friends is a diehard Hawkeye fan and has been letting me have it about tubby for the past 4 seasons. And he has been right, for the most part.

Rodney's limited ball handling skills limit his offensive game, imo. I would have thought these skills, fundamentals, would have been in place by now.
 

What makes you think Iverson was instinctive? Is it because he has left and had success? I don't remember him that way. I just remember him as awful and not too dissimilar to Eliason, who you listed as directive.
 

notoriousgod71 said:
What makes you think Iverson was instinctive? Is it because he has left and had success? I don't remember him that way. I just remember him as awful and not too dissimilar to Eliason, who you listed as directive.
Click to expand...

Don't you remember, he would instinctively lose his temper and throw a few elbows on rebounds.
 

notoriousgod71 said:
What makes you think Iverson was instinctive? Is it because he has left and had success? I don't remember him that way. I just remember him as awful and not too dissimilar to Eliason, who you listed as directive.
Click to expand...

Iverson is up for question- it seems that he had issues with being too agressive- so I put him there. Like I said - I don't know if I totally understand the concept. I just think it is interesting and kind of insightful by Saunders.
 


BarnBurner said:
I was listening to the show when Flip was on, and I agree with your assessment of the conversation beeg.

I agree with your list above for the most part - not sure TM is as instinctive as directive, unless of course he has regressed - which is possible.

Wally appears - albeit in very limited action - to be very instinctive. Mo is as well, it is just too bad he isnt about 30 lbs lighter.

My thought is tubby's coaching removes/limits players instinctive play. There is always a hesitation prior to moving the ball with the Gophs; watch Iowa move the ball and see what happens? It is painful to say that, since one of my friends is a diehard Hawkeye fan and has been letting me have it about tubby for the past 4 seasons. And he has been right, for the most part.

Rodney's limited ball handling skills limit his offensive game, imo. I would have thought these skills, fundamentals, would have been in place by now.
Click to expand...

That's my view also.
 

bga1 said:
Iverson is up for question- it seems that he had issues with being too agressive- so I put him there. Like I said - I don't know if I totally understand the concept. I just think it is interesting and kind of insightful by Saunders.
Click to expand...

It's quite possible. There's probably a fine line between being instinctive and out of control.

Armelin was way too ridiculous for me to confidently say he was instinctive, but way too random for me to say he was directional.
 

Chip was totally instinctive. Sometimes we need a little of that put there, like Westbrook.
 

notoriousgod71 said:
It's quite possible. There's probably a fine line between being instinctive and out of control.

Armelin was way too ridiculous for me to confidently say he was instinctive, but way too random for me to say he was directional.
Click to expand...

Everyone has their own opinion on Armelin. I loved the way he played. Over time I think his shot was improving and he was becoming a pretty good player. We could really, really use him this year. He was instinctive in my view. I think if he got the minutes he'd become a better all around player. Personally, I think he's a better overall player than Coleman.
 



Not sure if he is better than Coleman, but certainly would provide more spark off the bench than others. I wish Wally was playing better defense so he could get more minutes. He has some offensive skills we could use off the bench.
 

bga1 said:
Everyone has their own opinion on Armelin. I loved the way he played. Over time I think his shot was improving and he was becoming a pretty good player. We could really, really use him this year. He was instinctive in my view. I think if he got the minutes he'd become a better all around player. Personally, I think he's a better overall player than Coleman.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 

XMan said:
Not sure if he is better than Coleman, but certainly would provide more spark off the bench than others. I wish Wally was playing better defense so he could get more minutes. He has some offensive skills we could use off the bench.
Click to expand...

The only advantage that Coleman offers over Armelin is that he creates contact and gets fouled (he also charges often as a result). Armelin had the flaw of going in dipsy doodle on layins and he missed some shots that he should have gotten fouled on. Armelin was a better shooter (.35 on 3's) and turned the ball over at a lower rate than anyone but Rodney last year. I don't think either of them is a real good defender. Armelin was another guy vicitmized by the mass subsitution deal. He was usually out there with the subs which meant it boiled down to him being the only one who could get off a shot at times.
 

Oversimplistic. Rodney is instinctve going to the offensive glass, not so instinctive otherwise. Some guys are instinctive as long as the ball is in their hands, then not so instinctive when somebody else has the ball.
 



sunnyday2 said:
Oversimplistic. Rodney is instinctve going to the offensive glass, not so instinctive otherwise. Some guys are instinctive as long as the ball is in their hands, then not so instinctive when somebody else has the ball.
Click to expand...

I'd agree. It's probably too easy to lump people into one category or another. Related to your comment about guys not being so instinctive when they don't have the ball...that's one of the concerns I have. I don't see enough guys on the team that know what to do when the ball isn't in their hands. Rodney can if it's an alley-oop, otherwise he seems lost. Austin is a guy that operates pretty well without the ball. Call that instinctive or not, but he just seems to get "it". I've watched him this season and he does a nice job of moving without the ball and finding a seam. Not perfect by any means, but he's developing into a pretty good all-around ball player.
 

sunnyday2 said:
Oversimplistic. Rodney is instinctve going to the offensive glass, not so instinctive otherwise. Some guys are instinctive as long as the ball is in their hands, then not so instinctive when somebody else has the ball.
Click to expand...

It is oversimplistic. You can't put basketball players into two categories definitively. However, I think there is something to be learned from the overall idea and what type of mix of players you need to be successful depending on style of play. Wisconsin, because they have such a set system may be able to integrate more directional players into what they are doing and do so successfully. If you want to get out and run and force turnovers you better have instinctive players. If you have directional players you might be better off in a zone defense and have an offense that feeds the low post heavily. I really liked that Wally got in a passing lane the other night and got the deflection. It was an aggressive, instinctive play and we haven't seen enough of that. I don't think directionl/instinctive necessarily means good player versus bad player- rather it's more how you blend that into a system effectively.
 

Allow me to explain Directive versus Instinctive:

I am both.


Directive: I have been told "Go to hell".

Instinctive: I am on the way.
 

Earlier in the year in non-conference when we were getting turnovers and running more I think people would have said more, if not most, of these guys were instinctive.
 

Nice to see that Iverson still instinctively shoots freethrows as though he was playing for Tubby...
 



Dr.Don said:
Allow me to explain Directive versus Instinctive:

I am both.


Directive: I have been told "Go to hell".

Instinctive: I am on the way.
Click to expand...

Subjective: Can you find your way there without asking for directions?

As George Goebel once said; Without me your show tonight would be nothing.
 


Dr.Don said:
I can always find my own way, it's just that I get lost so many times and I can't find detours to detours.

I have found out that I can eventually find my own way, however, if I just read the damned signs:

http://seehere.blogspot.com/2006/08/strange-and-funny-signs.html
Click to expand...

Beware of this one.

526568_423543641031980_1208852873_n.jpg
 

Don't share pictures of cemetaries. That's the last place I want to end up at.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom