Defense wins championships?

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Seniorsmoke

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Regardless of who everyone's individual favorite is, all with maybe the exception of Golden are "offensive coaches." Even Haubaugh's team is currently averaging over 40ppg. Big time college football today is about offense. Looking at the current BCS Top 10:

1. Auburn- #4 in total offense 39.4 ppg
2. Oregon- #2 in total offense 55.1 ppg
3. Boise St.- 47.5 ppg
4. TCU- #5 toffense 39.6 ppg
5. Michigan St.- #9 in total offense
6. Missouri- 33.9 ppg
7. Alabama- 34 ppg
8. Utah- 48.6 ppg
9. Oklahoma- 34.7 ppg/didn't score enough in loss to Missouri
10. Wisconsin- 35.6 ppg

Only 4 of these teams (Boise, TCU, Utah and Alabama) rank in the Top 20 in Total Team Defense. With every option someone brings up as the next head coach, the point against them seems to be raised on how their defenses have/will fare. Shutdown defenses are just not what college football is about anymore. It is who can score the most points!
 

Tell me how many points per game their defenses give up, then we can talk.
 

I think defense matters and is a deciding factor on the highest level of sports. The offenses you list are all great, but the question is will their defense be able to win them the one or two games they need to win when they offense doesn't click. Once these teams play each other in bowl games the difference will be who has the better defense. A potential Oregon vs. Boise State national championship game would probably tell us who has the ball last, not which team was better.

Rodent Rampage. They give up significantly less than their offense is able to score. When can we start the discussion?
 

RodentRampage said:
Tell me how many points per game their defenses give up, then we can talk.
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For reference:

1. Auburn- 23.5ppg (#53)
2. Oregon- 15.9ppg (#12)
3. Boise St.- 12.3ppg (#2)
4. TCU- 9ppg (#1)
5. Michigan St.- 17.9ppg (#18)
6. Missouri- 13.1ppg (#5)
7. Alabama- 12.5ppg (#3)
8. Utah- 12.9ppg (#4)
9. Oklahoma- 21.4ppg (#44)
10. Wisconsin- 20.3ppg (#34)
 

And

are any of these teams primarily pound the rock offenses or great passing offenses? I think i know.
 


Offense wins championships in college as you can go undefeated but if your point differential isn't great enough you may not even play in the national championship game; even if your defense is good enough to carry you to wins over the other undefeated teams (see Baltimore Ravens).
 

I believe Alabama only stops "pounding the rock" to get another rock. MSU's success has been largely attributed to their ability to pound the rock, while wisconsin runs a bubble screen version of the spread.
 

I think having a competent defense that can step up and make plays when the game is on the line is absolutely crucial. My point is, the notion that the U shouldn't hire an offensive minded coach is absurd.
 

Seniorsmoke said:
I think having a competent defense that can step up and make plays when the game is on the line is absolutely crucial. My point is, the notion that the U shouldn't hire an offensive minded coach is absurd.
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I think the main reason people are shying away from an Offensive coach is they don't want to go through the heartbreaks of the Mason years again.
 



Gopher07 said:
For reference:

1. Auburn- 23.5ppg (#53)
2. Oregon- 15.9ppg (#12)
3. Boise St.- 12.3ppg (#2)
4. TCU- 9ppg (#1)
5. Michigan St.- 17.9ppg (#18)
6. Missouri- 13.1ppg (#5)
7. Alabama- 12.5ppg (#3)
8. Utah- 12.9ppg (#4)
9. Oklahoma- 21.4ppg (#44)
10. Wisconsin- 20.3ppg (#34)
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The 5 top defenses are on this list. A couple others aren't bad, in the top 20. The three worst defenses of this list aren't that bad. If we had a defense that was ranked #53, we would be thrilled. We've had a very long time of having potent offenses combined with non-existent defenses, that makes people wary of offense being overstressed.
 

RodentRampage said:
The 5 top defenses are on this list. A couple others aren't bad, in the top 20. The three worst defenses of this list aren't that bad. If we had a defense that was ranked #53, we would be thrilled. We've had a very long time of having potent offenses combined with non-existent defenses, that makes people wary of offense being overstressed.
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You have to take the Defensive rankings with a grain of salt. TCU, Boise, and Utah (3 of the top 4) don't exactly play high powered offenses every week. Not saying they have porous Ds - just making sure we don't jump too off the deep end on their rankings.
 

RodentRampage said:
If we had a defense that was ranked #53, we would be thrilled.
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The team with the #53 defense also has the #4 offense. We have never had anywhere near the #4 offense in the country. Having a great defense is meaningless if you can't put points on the board. While a good defense is a "nice to have" item, this list shows that a great offense is pretty much essential to be a force in today's college football.
 

The college game is evolving into a highly fluid, quick tempo game. One where oppotunistic defense as opposed to a truly dominant defense is what matters. The scores teams are putting up each week keep getting higher and higher. Heck Nebraska (storied Defensive program) put up 51 points in order to keep pace with Ok. St last weeknd.
 



josh087 said:
You have to take the Defensive rankings with a grain of salt. TCU, Boise, and Utah (3 of the top 4) don't exactly play high powered offenses every week. Not saying they have porous Ds - just making sure we don't jump too off the deep end on their rankings.
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Then we should take their offensive rankings with a grain of salt too.
 

Seniorsmoke said:
The college game is evolving into a highly fluid, quick tempo game. One where oppotunistic defense as opposed to a truly dominant defense is what matters. The scores teams are putting up each week keep getting higher and higher. Heck Nebraska (storied Defensive program) put up 51 points in order to keep pace with Ok. St last weeknd.
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Arena football, here we come.
 

Defense doesn't win championships. Scoring more points than the other team wins championships. There are multple ways to score more points than the other team.
 

If your offense falters, you just don't score any more points. But if your defense falters, the opponent racks up an awful lot of points.
 

RodentRampage said:
If your offense falters, you just don't score any more points. But if your defense falters, the opponent racks up an awful lot of points.
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Yea, but its never over till its over. And they give you cash, which is just as good as money.
 

We have had just a little bit of experience with what happens when a defense collapses.
 

dpodoll68 said:
The team with the #53 defense also has the #4 offense. We have never had anywhere near the #4 offense in the country. Having a great defense is meaningless if you can't put points on the board. While a good defense is a "nice to have" item, this list shows that a great offense is pretty much essential to be a force in today's college football.
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But you have to be able to hold leads.

You're right in that offense is being stressed more and more and offensive schemes are getting more sophisticated, but too many of Mason's teams would get leads--sometimes considerable leads--and not be able to hold them. Every one of those top 10 teams has some very good athletes on defense.
 

dpodoll68 said:
We have never had anywhere near the #4 offense in the country.
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I don't think that's true, and I'm not talking about the 1930s when I'm certain that's not true. In 2003 our offense averaged 495 yards/game and 38.7 points per game. I can't find a ranking to back up my claim, but I think that was a top 5 (for sure top 10) offense. The 495 yards/game would put that team in 7th place this year, and that's not figuring in that the averages will come down as the season progresses and tough conference games dillute the big numbers put up against cupcakes. And, as another poster pointed out, offenses are much more potent now than they were just 7 years ago.
 



A lot of difference makers on the defensive side of the ball were offensive standouts in high school. The athletes that you will be able to attract in the recruiting process when running an explosive offense (pick any option of the spread you'd like) should help you on both.
 

Gopher07 said:
Minnesota was ranked #4 in the country in yards per game at the end of the 2003 season:

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2003&div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotoff&site=org

#7 in scoring offense:

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2003&div=4&rpt=IA_teamscoroff&site=org

Our defense wasn't bad that year either; we ranked #34 in total defense, #35 in scoring defense.

DAMN YOU WOLVERINES
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This speaks to my point. The most successful Gophers season in the last 20+ years was one done with a high-powered offense and an opportunistic defense. Looking for a coach with similar in-game adjustment strategies as Mason obviously needs to be avoided.
 


Seniorsmoke said:
I think having a competent defense that can step up and make plays when the game is on the line is absolutely crucial. My point is, the notion that the U shouldn't hire an offensive minded coach is absurd.
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I equate winning defense to being with another person being chased by a bear. You don't have to be faster than the bear, you just have to be faster than the other guy. On defense you just have to make one more play than the other team.
 

RodentRampage said:
The 5 top defenses are on this list. A couple others aren't bad, in the top 20. The three worst defenses of this list aren't that bad. If we had a defense that was ranked #53, we would be thrilled. We've had a very long time of having potent offenses combined with non-existent defenses, that makes people wary of offense being overstressed.
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Good point. Glen Mason proved that having the #1 rushing offense in the country combined with the 92ish defense is a bad combination.
 

Sometimes rankings can be misleading. If you play 4 cupcakes in the nonconference that's quite an advantage in piling up yards/stats over a team that plays 1 or 2 tough nonconference games . I certainly feel this applied to the Gophers several years.
 

thailleagle said:
But...but...but...Mason had terrible Defenses!
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The knock on Mason's defenses wasn't so much the fact that they consistently gave up a lot of yardage. The knock on Mason's defenses was, when the cards were on the table, they always came up small.
That is the knock in general on Mason teams. People remember the blocked punt against Wisconsin, they forget that the play before was 3rd and 1, with Maroney in the backfield, and 2 all Americans on the line, and they couldn't get the yard for the win. Offensively and Defensively, Mason coached teams found ways to come up small and lose in big games.
 

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