I know we are all wowed that a "Tubby Smith" would come here to our little school, but isn't it time to expect more than Monsonesque performance from a fairly talented and deep group relative to other big ten schools...I am beginning to question things
Dare I say
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Art Vandelay
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Well, his B10 record is now 20-22 if that makes you feel any better.
gopherbadgerman
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Our players are not that good. I think people overate the talent level we put on the floor.
GopherJake
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Yeah, Tubby should have planned for two of his impact players - big tough bruising players this team sorely lacks and were arguably the two most expected from this class to help the team now - to be suspended the entire season.
Art Vandelay
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Tubby knew TM and RW had baggage before they got here. He rolled the dice.
"You can't miss what you never had"
-Tubby Smith
rivergopher
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Hate to say I agree with Art, but ultimately Tubby knew that both of these players had some issues before he signed them. I think that we as fans need to stop dwelling on what ifs and start questing Tubby for having this team not ready to play tonight, getting out hustled against Indiana is embarssing. If we are going to play a 3 guard line up we have to do a much better job of boxing out. I counted numerous times were Ralph and DJ simply tried to out reach and out jump the opponents rather than box out. And our guards did a horrible job of boxing out and getting long rebounds.
Still think this team should be beating most teams even without Trevor and Royce (who, remember, has never played college basketball before)......But I think we in Minnesota give our coaches too much slack and don't demand enough unless you are Tim Brewster it seems....
This season has been like a soap opera. I'm hoping it'll be like a lot of the Twins' seasons of the past decade, where the guys dig themselves holes early and end-up standing on their heads and rising to the occasion late to get to the post-season.
It's too bad that Coach Smith's final pieces to his plan are inactive and Westbrook appears to have gone Voshon Lenard. I know the missing pieces have been beat to death, but we are a top 3 team on paper with them and poised at a run for a conference title if we get the other Joseph next year. It's really frustrating considering we thought we had a shot at Joseph and Barnes late in the summer with Royce and Trevor.
It's too bad that Coach Smith's final pieces to his plan are inactive and Westbrook appears to have gone Voshon Lenard. I know the missing pieces have been beat to death, but we are a top 3 team on paper with them and poised at a run for a conference title if we get the other Joseph next year. It's really frustrating considering we thought we had a shot at Joseph and Barnes late in the summer with Royce and Trevor.
KyGopherfan
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Sounds like one of those UK fans have decided to come over here and bait GH.
gopherbadgerman
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I agree with you to a point, but both those guys has some baggage. You win some and lose some, sure the gophs could be 15-3 or 16-2 with them, but they are not and they do not have them, and probably wont this year. I think you look at the roster and you see a bunch of 4th option scorers, role players, and 6th men on top end teams. Honestly, how many of our guys would start on Purdue or MSU, let alone other national powers. As for Tubby's recruits, here is what I think - Sampson is decent, above average B10 Center; Colton is a role player, Jospeh is a work in progress and an ok, but not consistant scorer, Cobbs looks like a future decent B10 point, but probably not much better than Nolen, Carter is a role player on a good team.
He's just missed on some recruits. If two years from now we are in this same spot, I think his coaching can seriously be questioned. If RW and TM are not on the team next year, I struggle to think how they will be much better.
GopherJake
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Good post. My responses:
I don't think ANYONE here thought Royce White wouldn't play this year. I'm sure Tubby was counting on him. Not sure of TM's timing. When he signed the LOI, was the case pending? Either way, as I said, it's pretty bad luck for both to be out and for it to be the two most expected to contribute. Add to that, we don't have a decent power forward without them and......
we basically have the same team as last year. When there were reviews of top 15 recruiting class, I think we all expected more than scratching and clawing for a NCAA berth, which is what we did last year too.
BUT, your assessment of Tubby's *playing* recruits is pretty on - although they are, of course, still young and could develop. Particularly RS3 and Devoe. Cobbs is another I think that will be better and better.
I agree, if we are here in 2 years, Tubby has failed. I don't think we will be, but if the top 2 (signed) recruits in each class never touch the floor, we will be.............
I'm also not giving up on this year's team...........
josh087
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A loss to Indiana on the road is not the cause for concern. No matter who you are you're going to have an off night on the road now and then.
Here's the problem though. The talent is only marginally better than under Monson. Sampson and especially Iverson (Tubby recruits) are not top level BT material on the inside.
The performances on the road have not improved. It is the same team every night. Today was no exception. Inability to execute on offense, inability to show more mental toughness on the road.
It's not just the loss tonight. It's the trend over three seasons that has me worried. 2-7 on the road in 2008, 2-7 in 2009, probably no better than 2-7 in 2010. Only two wins by more than four points.
It's not getting better. That is very concerning.
Here's the problem though. The talent is only marginally better than under Monson. Sampson and especially Iverson (Tubby recruits) are not top level BT material on the inside.
The performances on the road have not improved. It is the same team every night. Today was no exception. Inability to execute on offense, inability to show more mental toughness on the road.
It's not just the loss tonight. It's the trend over three seasons that has me worried. 2-7 on the road in 2008, 2-7 in 2009, probably no better than 2-7 in 2010. Only two wins by more than four points.
It's not getting better. That is very concerning.
KyGopherfan
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You're right, which is why Tubby signed Mbakwe and White. Oh wait, we have to think our illustrious AD for making them ride the pine, while other programs have let players in similar situations go ahead and play w/no repercussions.
EverTheSkeptic
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Gopher Plateau?
This was a game that most people thought would be a win. The Gophers are better that the Hoosiers and the loss was a bad one. Here is the question that occurred to me in the wee hours - is Tubby going to follow in Glen Mason's footsteps? Will he raise the team from the pits into respectability, but not get the program beyond that "good but not great" level? It seems as if there is a plateau which Gopher teams (hockey excepted) can't get over (without cheating, that is). I know Royce and Trevor would make a big difference, but the present team should have handled Indiana.
This was a game that most people thought would be a win. The Gophers are better that the Hoosiers and the loss was a bad one. Here is the question that occurred to me in the wee hours - is Tubby going to follow in Glen Mason's footsteps? Will he raise the team from the pits into respectability, but not get the program beyond that "good but not great" level? It seems as if there is a plateau which Gopher teams (hockey excepted) can't get over (without cheating, that is). I know Royce and Trevor would make a big difference, but the present team should have handled Indiana.
beowulftom
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Wow.. I'm still a bit of a newbie here at Gopherhole but I must say, I could see this coming.
The Gophers are 12-6 (is that right?) and 3-3 in the Big Ten. They've defeated Ohio State and Butler already this year. The HALL OF FAME coach's first recruiting class had three players that played inspired ball in a frustrating loss on the road in an atrociously officiated game.
The perfect time to panic.
Hey Salem79, here's a little assignment for you;
Go to google
Type in any national-title-winning-coach you want with the word "underachieving"
You'll get lots of articles written by impatient people during seasons(or portions of a season) that didn't go well.
If Tubby is washed up and terrible after every loss, at least post he's a genius after every win.
Be patient and enjoy the ride. Sure it's bumpy but two years from now when these sophomores are seniors I will bet that this team will be officially out the rebuilding phase and into the Conference Title and Sweet sixteen phase. Tubby's too good.
We all loved Clem (before everything went down) and the Gophers had many seasons like this. Everyone needs to relax. Before the season, I wanted a top 5 regular season finish in the Big 10, a 6 seed or higher in the NCAA's and at least one win. All of this still might happen. It might not. If it doesn't, losing two key players at the same position cannot be ingnored, but it will be disappointing. Until we reach the point where it clearly won't happen, let's all relax and hope for the best.
Gopher4Life
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Tubby Smith is not the problem. We need to improve at every position in order to go where we want to go.
WilliamsArenaGuy
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Exactly.
Gopher4Life
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>>Sampson and especially Iverson (Tubby recruits) are not top level BT material on the inside.<<
No, they're not Jim Brewer and Kevin McHale. They are both sophs who have been splitting time for a mere year and a half. Let's not give up on them yet.
No, they're not Jim Brewer and Kevin McHale. They are both sophs who have been splitting time for a mere year and a half. Let's not give up on them yet.
station19
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If criticizing a coach on a message board can 'only help' then I am expecting our Football Gophers to win the National Championship next year.
When criticism is well reasoned and supported, it should help us, fans, to understand the situation better, ain't it? Whatever we say in an internet board actually may not help the team.
station19
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ain't, sure,
Tubby is not THE problem- true. He's a superior coach and he's paid for it. Here's a three fold question for you. 1. How many of the players we need do you think are already on the roster? If you say none - then Tubby is PART of the problem, because he has recruited the past two classes. 2. Do you see improvement from last year? I see some in Sampson, but little else.
3. Are you seeing team play? I see it on defense most of the time- but not on offense.
Tubby is a great coach-there's no arguing it. And he has to be suffering from the White/ Mbakwe situation - for sure. I'm just not certain he is fully engaged. I am hoping he gets angry and we see the full Tubby next Saturday.
With Tubby here we have a chance to get the attention of players that we would never have a shot at without him. There maybe 10 coaches that have the credentials and respect he has. I am hoping for better days ahead.
gopherbadgerman
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My opinion:
#1. - Sampson, Cobbs, Joseph are players on the roster who, IMO, could be part of a good B10 team ( I will leave off RW and TM because they are not "active".) The rest of the roster does really nothing for me as far as a year or two down the road, either do any of our incoming freshman as of now.
#2 - Sampson is better, LW worse, Nolen same, Johnson same, Joseph better, Bostick ?, Carter same, Iverson same, Hoffarber better at times, but worthless so far in big games against top teams.
#3 - Great team defense, but not offense. Some of the problem is that there is just not a top end offensive player in the mix at all. People are forced to do things that are not their strengths, and look worse for it.
I have to think Rodney Williams could be a terrific player in time and certainly part of a good Big Ten team for the years ahead.