Coach Kill is not the new Mason!

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GRGOPHER

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Well, I'll start the thread myself!

According to IMTHEWALRUS in another thread...

Talk to the people who used this thread to start bashing...

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Mason. I merely presented the other side of their slams and bashings of one of te best coaches who has been at Minnesota since Bierman was forced out. When the bashing of Mason begins, a contrast MUST be presnted. It is really very simple. When someone starts bashing, the other side must be presented.

It is also incredibly relevent to Coach Kill. Expectations of coaches are not very realistic here too often. Don't worry, all too soon Coach Kill will start feeling the heat for not winning enough...for not recriting well enough...for not passing the ball enough...for not doing this and not doing that. It will be a long time...if ever... before Coach Kill wins at least 50% of his Big Ten games. If Mason was bashed so badly for winning 40% of his Big Ten games and pulling upsets of some pretty good programs, Coach Kill will be crucified for not dominating Big Ten competition within two years.

Many people won't like his offense and certainly, many people will not like his defense. If he makes the Gophers competetive, that will not be enough.

So, blame the people who brought Mason into your thread. Get all over their cases because theey needlessly bashed Mason and brought his name into your thread.

Everyone have a great day! ; 0 )
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Well I hope you have a good day too! Hope things look up for you!

I am one of those who are glad Mason is gone! Why? He was not a good fit with Minnesota!
Yes he won 40% of his B10 games but he didn't want to be here, he didn't have a good relationship with HS coaches, and the inconsistencies were maddening.

No doubt Coach Kill will have critics...it's the only thing we "holers" seem to do well.

But I personally will be thrilled if he makes us competitive again. If he can present a disciplined team, retain players, graduate players, and do things the right way, he'll be a step above Mason.

So if you gave me the choice, would I want Mason or Kill, it's no contest. Coach Kill is my man!

If Mason is your man...so be it, we all have a right to an opinion.
 

I could see Kill becoming the new Mason in that he could struggle to win in the newly reorganized league and could plateau at entry-level bowl appearances. When Kill was hired I was very disappointed, because I have never been overly impressed in the few games I'd seen of his on ESPN ( I managed to see a lot of those losses he had against teams with winning records including his bowl appearances and his MAC championship the weekend of his hiring). Certainly he will have plenty of oppurtuinty to improve his "vs FBS teams with winning records" stat category as that will be a lot of what he faces.

Kill, however, seems to be a more aggressive recruiter than Mason already. Plus I like that he has kept Hammock for now, so we might still get in the living rooms of some of the more elite high school talent out there. Brewster got his foot in the door with kids the like haven't shown interest in the U in the history of modern recruiting, but couldn't seal the deal, likely because he had nothing to show for his efforts on the field. If we can improve on the field perhaps some of those NFL-caliber running backs Hammock has on his speed-dial might actually land in Stadium Village. In the end though neither Brewster or Mason were as bad as Wacker. Hopefully Kill will improve on the lot.
 

Don't let the Walrus ruin your day
 

Opinions is all we have!

So if you gave me the choice, would I want Mason or Kill, it's no contest. Coach Kill is my man!

If Mason is your man...so be it, we all have a right to an opinion.
Welcome to the Hole...Our place to opine! I remember how I felt when Mason was introduced as our coach. I was a student at the U, having just endured one last dismal season of Wackerball. As a member of the marching band, I remember wistfully thinking about what it would be like to march in a bowl game. I didn't dare dream of marching down Colorado Blvd as a member of the Minnesota Marching Band! But I was pretty hopeful that Glen Mason could recreate what he did at Kansas in Minneapolis.

Lo and behold, two years later during the 1999 season, we were 1 game and a lucky break or two from actually claiming a share of the Big Ten Title! That year, we played a good game with Oregon in El Paso, and my bandmates and I rang in the new millennium just across the border from scenic Juarez. No, Pasadena it was not, but dang was that ever fun for a bunch of college kids who loved the Gophers!

Glen Mason brought the program from hopeless to the cusp of awesomeness. We never quite arrived, but I will always think fondly about how he impacted the football program during my time at the University of Minnesota.

I don't need to say so to the detriment of any other coach but Mason's predecessor, whom we loved personally, but didn't care for professionally. Here's hoping Coach Kill can give us fans and current students something really exciting to remember for a lifetime!

Go Gophers!
 

I can appreciate dissident points of view, but I don't understand why wren is so enamored with Mason. Outside of 1999 Mason wasn't even competitive in the big ten and for every epic victory there are at least 2 terribly embarrassing losses. Even worse was his constant job hunting. The man is an arrogant prick. Good riddance.
 


Mason deserves his due, but he never quite made it to where most fans hoped to go. Nevertheless, we had NO All-Americans from 1971-1997 and Mason developed eight of them, at least three of whom were consensus (and they won four major player awards). The 8-3 and 9-3 regular seasons in '99 and '03 were outstanding records and we nearly won the Big Ten title both years. But his flirting with Michigan State and LSU in '99 and the even worse display of interest later for Ohio State was unforgiveable; there were the famous late game collapses, recruiting mediocre many years and defense began to slide in the later years. The timing of his firing was way wrong and hurt the program, but he probably had to go at some point. Still, he was far the best of all the coaches after Warmath (Holtz's short tenure maybe being the exception).
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
Mason deserves his due, but he never quite made it to where most fans hoped to go. Nevertheless, we had NO All-Americans from 1971-1997 and Mason developed eight of them, at least three of whom were consensus (and they won four major player awards). The 8-3 and 9-3 regular seasons in '99 and '03 were outstanding records and we nearly won the Big Ten title both years. But his flirting with Michigan State and LSU in '99 and the even worse display of interest later for Ohio State was unforgiveable; there were the famous late game collapses, recruiting mediocre many years and defense began to slide in the later years. The timing of his firing was way wrong and hurt the program, but he probably had to go at some point. Still, he was far the best of all the coaches after Warmath (Holtz's short tenure maybe being the exception).
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Couldn't agree more. It was time for Mason to go because the program had gone stagnant and it seemed like after OSU passed on him he kind of mailed it in. But that doesn't change the fact he is the most successful coach since Warmath, and deserves a lot of credit for turning this program around. If Kill does the same stuff Mason did but just has a better relationship with high school coaches (especially in MN which he probably already has), keeps the team in better condition, and pays ANY attention to his defense, he will be extremely successful.
 

Glenn Mason's Big 10 record was 32 - 48 and he finished 4th in the conference twice. Call Stoll's Big 10 Record was 27 - 29 and he finished 3rd in the conference twice. Stoll was the better coach - by far. It is not a debatable issue. Mason's record was built on non-conference wins over MAC teams and teams from Louisiana not named LSU.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
Mason deserves his due, but he never quite made it to where most fans hoped to go. Nevertheless, we had NO All-Americans from 1971-1997 and Mason developed eight of them, at least three of whom were consensus (and they won four major player awards). The 8-3 and 9-3 regular seasons in '99 and '03 were outstanding records and we nearly won the Big Ten title both years. But his flirting with Michigan State and LSU in '99 and the even worse display of interest later for Ohio State was unforgiveable; there were the famous late game collapses, recruiting mediocre many years and defense began to slide in the later years. The timing of his firing was way wrong and hurt the program, but he probably had to go at some point. Still, he was far the best of all the coaches after Warmath (Holtz's short tenure maybe being the exception).
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How was Mason better than Stoll?
In 10 seasons, Mason had a .400 Big Ten record (.529 overall) and scheduled 5 BCS level non-conference games.
In 7 seasons, Stoll had a .482 Big Ten record (.500 overall) and scheduled 13 BCS level non-conference games.
 



ulfr said:
Certainly he will have plenty of oppurtuinty to improve his "vs FBS teams with winning records" stat category as that will be a lot of what he faces.
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That stat was concerning to me too when I first heard it so I crunched some numbers (the following is copied from a comment I made over at TDG...#1 refers to someone saying his record versus winning FBS teams was 2-14):
1) As far as I can tell its 2-13. Looked at the NIU records for 2008-2010. Kill was 23-16 during that time. Of those 16 losses, 3 came to teams without winning records: Tennesse (5-7) in 2008, Toledo (5-7) in 2009, and Iowa State (5-7) in 2010. So just wanted to correct that. =)
2) 4 of the losses were to BCS teams where NIU winning would have been considered an upset. And NIU was in 3 of those games (MN in ‘08, WI in ’09, and Illinois in ’10)
3) Part of the problem is the being in the MAC. Because of the non-con schedules they play about 2/3’s of the MAC lacked a winning record each of Kill’s 3 seasons there.
- 2008: Only 4 teams w/ winning records. NIU played/lost to 3 of them (missed Buffalo). NIU beat the only .500 MAC team that season (Bowling Green)
- 2009: NIU one of 4 teams with winning record. NIU played/lost to 2 of them (Conference Champ C. Michigan and Conference Runner Up Ohio) while missing 2 of them (Temple and Bowling Green).
- 2010: NIU one of 5 teams with a winning record. NIU played/lost only to Miami in the title game. Beat Temple and Toledo while missing only Ohio. They also beat the only .500 team (W. Michigan) in this year’s MAC.

Of the three, #3 is the least convincing only because of the teams w/o a winning record NIU beat, only 1 had a winning conference record. Which indicates that the non-con schedule isn’t the sole cause.

It is a concerning stat. But it also isn’t as stark as the simple number suggests. He still showed progression at NIU. Especially when you look at the losses in 2009 and realize they were all close (exception: Central Michigan and the bowl game versus USF) and then add in the much better record in 2010. In fact, of the 16 total losses he suffered at NIU only 4 were by more than 1 score (2008: to 12-1 Ball State and 8-5 Navy; 2009: to 12-2 Central Michigan and 8-5 USF; 2010 – to 5-7 Iowa State). To me it looks like he fielded teams that were competitive and that improved over time.

None of this answers whether he can get over the hump here or if he’ll reach a Mason level and plateau. But IMO it also doesn’t serve as a cause for severe worry. I’m also a glass half full kind of guy though. =)
 

Mason had his shot. He was good, but in the end his aspirations were not high enough and his drive was not strong enough. Kill's turn to try.
 

Mason had 2 seasons with winning Big Ten records in 10 years. Gutekunst had two seasons with winning Big Ten records in 6 years. Gutekunst also had much tougher nonconference schedules.
 

How does "good"= averaging a 3-5 conference record over a decade? That's below average at best. I personally am concerned that Jerry Kill could be another Glen Mason, but I expressed those concerns when he was hired and it does no good to worry about his ability now.
 



Firejumper said:
Mason had his shot. He was good, but in the end his aspirations were not high enough and his drive was not strong enough. Kill's turn to try.
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Well put--boiled down to it's simplest form.
 

GoAUpher said:
That stat was concerning to me too when I first heard it so I crunched some numbers (the following is copied from a comment I made over at TDG...#1 refers to someone saying his record versus winning FBS teams was 2-14):
1) As far as I can tell its 2-13. Looked at the NIU records for 2008-2010. Kill was 23-16 during that time. Of those 16 losses, 3 came to teams without winning records: Tennesse (5-7) in 2008, Toledo (5-7) in 2009, and Iowa State (5-7) in 2010. So just wanted to correct that. =)
2) 4 of the losses were to BCS teams where NIU winning would have been considered an upset. And NIU was in 3 of those games (MN in ‘08, WI in ’09, and Illinois in ’10)
3) Part of the problem is the being in the MAC. Because of the non-con schedules they play about 2/3’s of the MAC lacked a winning record each of Kill’s 3 seasons there.
- 2008: Only 4 teams w/ winning records. NIU played/lost to 3 of them (missed Buffalo). NIU beat the only .500 MAC team that season (Bowling Green)
- 2009: NIU one of 4 teams with winning record. NIU played/lost to 2 of them (Conference Champ C. Michigan and Conference Runner Up Ohio) while missing 2 of them (Temple and Bowling Green).
- 2010: NIU one of 5 teams with a winning record. NIU played/lost only to Miami in the title game. Beat Temple and Toledo while missing only Ohio. They also beat the only .500 team (W. Michigan) in this year’s MAC.

Of the three, #3 is the least convincing only because of the teams w/o a winning record NIU beat, only 1 had a winning conference record. Which indicates that the non-con schedule isn’t the sole cause.

It is a concerning stat. But it also isn’t as stark as the simple number suggests. He still showed progression at NIU. Especially when you look at the losses in 2009 and realize they were all close (exception: Central Michigan and the bowl game versus USF) and then add in the much better record in 2010. In fact, of the 16 total losses he suffered at NIU only 4 were by more than 1 score (2008: to 12-1 Ball State and 8-5 Navy; 2009: to 12-2 Central Michigan and 8-5 USF; 2010 – to 5-7 Iowa State). To me it looks like he fielded teams that were competitive and that improved over time.

None of this answers whether he can get over the hump here or if he’ll reach a Mason level and plateau. But IMO it also doesn’t serve as a cause for severe worry. I’m also a glass half full kind of guy though. =)
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How many of Kill's games against BCS schools were at home? Zero?
 

4four4 said:
How many of Kill's games against BCS schools were at home? Zero?
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Correct. All games were at the home of the BCS school except for the bowl game vs. USF which was a neutral site game in Toronto.
 

GRGOPHER said:
Coach Kill is not the new Mason!
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That's too bad. After the last trainwreck we hired was true to his name, we sure could use some success again. Unlike you, I miss bowl games...
 

If Stoll had the facilities Mason enjoyed, and softer schedules, he probably would have done better. But he didn't develop players as well as Mason and his best record was 7-4. His teams were also inconsistent - up one week for a big upset, down the next, losing to a lower ranked Big Ten team. I was sorry he was fired, though - and Salem turned out to be a disaster when he ran out of Stoll's players. Cal was a good guy and a better coach than many thought at the time, but Mason was coach of the year in three conferences.
 

I think the fact that Kill has already met with the high school coaching establishment and has had meetings and coffee with football alumni has already vaulted him well past Mason in the PR department. Kill may not succeed, but it won't be for lack of honest effort.
 

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