Civil War's Influence on Football

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Years ago I was riding up a chairlift at Copper Mountain in Colorado. We asked were each other was from, she said Auburn. I asked her if she was a big college football fan. And she said absolutely. In the conversation, she expressed her thrill of beating 'Bama in the Iron Bowl. I asked her if she'd be rooting against Alabama in their upcoming bowl game. She said no way, people in the south always pull for the SEC, especially against northern teams.

I told her this was interesting, because my default is to root against Wisconsin in bowl games (although, this year, I have to admit to kind of pulling for them). She was surprised. After talking to others in the south, I've come to understand that college football is a south vs. the north thing (yea, I realize I may be alone in my ignorance in the severity of this feeling!).

Not sure if this is factual, someone told me in the south when you see an antique canon (like at a VFW), they always postition them to face the north.
 

Donovan said:
Years ago I was riding up a chairlift at Copper Mountain in Colorado. We asked were each other was from, she said Auburn. I asked her if she was a big college football fan. And she said absolutely. In the conversation, she expressed her thrill of beating 'Bama in the Iron Bowl. I asked her if she'd be rooting against Alabama in their upcoming bowl game. She said no way, people in the south always pull for the SEC, especially against northern teams.

I told her this was interesting, because my default is to root against Wisconsin in bowl games (although, this year, I have to admit to kind of pulling for them). She was surprised. After talking to others in the south, I've come to understand that college football is a south vs. the north thing (yea, I realize I may be alone in my ignorance in the severity of this feeling!).

Not sure if this is factual, someone told me in the south when you see an antique canon (like at a VFW), they always postition them to face the north.
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Have you ever seen the cannon on the mall of Minnesota's capitol? Face southward.
 

Donovan said:
Years ago I was riding up a chairlift at Copper Mountain in Colorado. We asked were each other was from, she said Auburn. I asked her if she was a big college football fan. And she said absolutely. In the conversation, she expressed her thrill of beating 'Bama in the Iron Bowl. I asked her if she'd be rooting against Alabama in their upcoming bowl game. She said no way, people in the south always pull for the SEC, especially against northern teams.

I told her this was interesting, because my default is to root against Wisconsin in bowl games (although, this year, I have to admit to kind of pulling for them). She was surprised. After talking to others in the south, I've come to understand that college football is a south vs. the north thing (yea, I realize I may be alone in my ignorance in the severity of this feeling!).

Not sure if this is factual, someone told me in the south when you see an antique canon (like at a VFW), they always postition them to face the north.
Click to expand...

Your interaction with the Auburn fan is interesting. I'm new to Auburn and was asking around about this very topic myself. The sentiment that I mostly got was that you are correct about the South V North aspect (well, specifically SEC V Everyone Else...they HATE FSU!) EXCEPT when it comes to 'Bama. Most of the people I spoke with were very anti-Tide.
 

I think plenty of folks down south root against their rivals in bowl games. Auburn fans probably loved watching Alabama lose last night, on the whole.

The whole explosion conference-pride-in-bowls thing is due, IMO, to a few reasons:

1. There are a lot more bowl games, so a lot more chances for each conference to have a ton of representatives (thus making bowl games a better barometer, or at least a larger sample, of each conference). In 1975, there were 11 bowl games. By 1995, that number went to 18. Next year, 20 years later, there will be 40.

2. It sells and it attracts eyeballs. ESPN knows this, and they sell the hell out of it. People are more apt to watch bowls with teams from their conference because "conference pride" ... something you need to do to drum up support when there's 40 of them and your network is carrying nearly all of them.

3. The SEC dominance and subsequent media coverage over the past ten years, and the overbearing "us vs. them" narrative from media. People from the SEC banded together because it felt good to be part of a "winner", while people from other conferences felt like they were fighting against a conspiracy and really knew the truth about how overrated the SEC was.
 


Well I know when the Gophers played and beat Alabama in the Music City bowl I've never seen so many Confederate flags on vehicles in my life. The Gopher band didn't play the Battle Hymn of the Republic/swing gate in the pre game,or halftime. My son and I were addressed as " Yankees " at the Coyote Bar in Nashville. It was said in jest but still said. You wouldn't think a war that occurred some 150 years ago would still create a situation.
 



Insurrectionists don't deserve treaties. They surrendered and were returned to their former status as losers. Ohio beating Alabama is only appropriate.
 



Dean S said:
Insurrectionists don't deserve treaties. They surrendered and were returned to their former status as losers. Ohio beating Alabama is only appropriate.
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Sometimes you really rock, Dean.

+201
 

Dean S said:
Insurrectionists don't deserve treaties. They surrendered and were returned to their former status as losers. Ohio beating Alabama is only appropriate.
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The $20 million and change the Big Ten gets for Ohio State getting the the National Title game doesn't hurt either. At least we stuck the SEC in the pocketbook.
 

Last time I was down south they kept asking me if I was originally from Norway, gotta love the Minnesota / Scandinavian accent.
 




HTML:
Dean S said:
I realize every day I could never be President of the United States of America because I hate the deep South.
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In 2008 Obama took NC ,VA, and FL. In 2012 he repeated, less NC. So, it is almost possible to be elected President without a former Confederate state win.
 

I'm sure if you had ancestors from the South who were in involved in Shermans March to the Sea those stories probably still surface among family gatherings.
 

I lived in Atlanta for a few years back 30 years ago. Damn-Yankee is one word. They have a tremendous inferiority complex about the Civil War and it is everywhere. Of course, all the battle fields are down south, but it does seem they are overly obsessed with the war and are constantly looking for a chance to one up the north.


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Dean S said:
I realize every day I could never be President of the United States of America because I hate the deep South.
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dean, i actually feel sorry for you and anyone else with such a naive and provincial attitude (most of whom have never even stepped foot in the "deep south"). so many people misunderstand the south because they never grew out of the second grade understanding of "civil war: north anti-slavery and righteous. south: pro-slavery and morally corrupt". for someone who generally posts well though-out and nuanced posts in the off-topic board, i am disappointed.

i am always amazed at the cognitive dissonance that most people face when on the one hand i hear "history is written by the winners" and then respond so virulently when it is suggested that their naive understanding of the civil war comes from years of propaganda written by the winners.

i don't think that the south has an inferiority complex, but if she did it would be understandable to anyone who has seriously studied what the war did to southern society. rape, killing and burning. we have a problem when the u.s. treats a pashtun villager as an enemy of the state and yet we cannot extend that same understanding to the other side of the conflict between the states. people actually make jokes about sherman's march, and they are usually the same kind of people who would be mortally offended if someone were to joke about deforesting hundreds of thousands of acres of jungle in vietnam or pouring water over the faces of a suspected terrorist or joking about bombing some country back to the stone age. for the sheer terror and destruction that the north perpetrated on the south, i would expect a little bit of mistrust to be ingrained in the south's collective psyche.

i am not a southerner. i grew up out west and went to school in the midwest. but half of my family lives down south and my dad was an athlete at auburn and went to vet school there (and i know plenty of auburn fans and all of them were rooting for ohio state). i can honestly say that i have felt a bit of mistrust from my on flesh and blood down south because i am not a southerner. i don't harbor any hard feelings. i try to do my best to understand an event that is so complex socially, economically and culturally that the only way for simple minds on both sides to truly comprehend it is to buy into the unsophisticated pablum that each side feeds us in an attempt to sooth the confusion of the cognitive dissonance.

i will leave you with one of my favorite songs. it was written by levon helm -- certainly not an inbred redneck, in fact no even a southerner but a canadian -- and covered by folk singers from the north and the south. it captures the essence of the underlying damage caused by one of the most damaging wars ever fought:

(edit: levon helm did not write "the night they drove old dixie down", it was the guitarist robbie robertson. and helm was not a canadian)
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
dean, i actually feel sorry for you and anyone else with such a naive and provincial attitude (most of whom have never even stepped foot in the "deep south"). so many people misunderstand the south because they never grew out of the second grade understanding of "civil war: north anti-slavery and righteous. south: pro-slavery and morally corrupt". for someone who generally posts well though-out and nuanced posts in the off-topic board, i am disappointed.

i am always amazed at the cognitive dissonance that most people face when on the one hand i hear "history is written by the winners" and then respond so virulently when it is suggested that their naive understanding of the civil war comes from years of propaganda written by the winners.

i don't think that the south has an inferiority complex, but if she did it would be understandable to anyone who has seriously studied what the war did to southern society. rape, killing and burning. we have a problem when the u.s. treats a pashtun villager as an enemy of the state and yet we cannot extend that same understanding to the other side of the conflict between the states. people actually make jokes about sherman's march, and they are usually the same kind of people who would be mortally offended if someone were to joke about deforesting hundreds of thousands of acres of jungle in vietnam or pouring water over the faces of a suspected terrorist or joking about bombing some country back to the stone age. for the sheer terror and destruction that the north perpetrated on the south, i would expect a little bit of mistrust to be ingrained in the south's collective psyche.

i am not a southerner. i grew up out west and went to school in the midwest. but half of my family lives down south and my dad was an athlete at auburn and went to vet school there (and i know plenty of auburn fans and all of them were rooting for ohio state). i can honestly say that i have felt a bit of mistrust from my on flesh and blood down south because i am not a southerner. i don't harbor any hard feelings. i try to do my best to understand an event that is so complex socially, economically and culturally that the only way for simple minds on both sides to truly comprehend it is to buy into the unsophisticated pablum that each side feeds us in an attempt to sooth the confusion of the cognitive dissonance.

i will leave you with one of my favorite songs. it was written by levon helm -- certainly not an inbred redneck, in fact no even a southerner but canadian -- and covered by folk singers from the north and the south. it captures the essence of the underlying damage caused by one of the most damaging wars ever fought:

(edit: levon helm did not write "the night they drove old dixie down", it was the guitarist robbie robertson.)
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I happen to be reading a book by Bruce Catton called "The Coming Fury" which is about the events leading up to the Civil War. It's part of a series of books done by this author to mark the Centennial of that war.

One thing I learned was that cool heads did not prevail on both sides and it seemed war was unavoidable. For example, southern hardliners wanted to mandate that an equal number of slave states and free be admitted. Thus, when Minnesota became a free state they wanted Kansas to be a slave state, even the the majority of people in Kansas were against slavery. On the other side, some northern hardliners not only wanted to end slavery but also imprison slave owners. That doesn't sound radical today but at the time it would have been.
 

The South has been carrying a grudge for 150 some years. Wasn't Birmingham that flew the Confederate flag above the American flag on the Capitol ? You don't see the Union Jack flag on top of the American flag in St.Paul. I saw enough racism in the South in the late 60's and early 70's to make me puke.
 

Anyone who flies the confederate flag should face treason charges and penalties
 

ruppertflywheel said:
The South has been carrying a grudge for 150 some years. Wasn't Birmingham that flew the Confederate flag above the American flag on the Capitol ? You don't see the Union Jack flag on top of the American flag in St.Paul. I saw enough racism in the South in the late 60's and early 70's to make me puke.
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Actually, there are lingering northern grudges too like the fact that the state of Minnesota still won't return a Virginia battle flag. I do find the Confederate flag offensive. It was very odd to see Confederate flags left on southern memorials when I visited Gettysburg. It didn't seem right.
 

Some guy said:
Anyone who flies the confederate flag should face treason charges and penalties
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The mid 19th century marked an epochal change in history when society could advance broadly without slavery. The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Jews, Medieval feudal society, colonial European powers were only able to advance in science, arts, politics because of the boost provided by slavery. I join the modern age in condemning chattel slavery, but I think many of those who preen in moral judgment of the antebellum south cannot imagine an economic system requiring 14 hour days of hard labor in the sweltering sun without air conditioning, internal combustion engines, etc.

The elites of the antebellum south were a cartoonish anachronism that needed to be overthrown, sadly the incompetence of the Union Army extended the bloody war. How I miss the families of the men who might have otherwise lived.
 

Any time we play a Southern school, the Swinging Gates formation needs to be run down the field.
 

I agree that the typical slack eyed yokel jokes are way out on context in reference to the south. But please don't go playing "the poor south" card when it comes to the civil war. It is well documented in history how the southern sacrificed the live of thousands of young men to persevere a dying economic system based upon slavery. What happen to them may have been brutal, but they did bring it on themselves. Are you going to discuss the pain the Japanese or Germans suffered during WWII? The sad point is that southerners have been led to believe that war was for state rights.


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alchemy2u said:
I agree that the typical slack eyed yokel jokes are way out on context in reference to the south. But please don't go playing "the poor south" card when it comes to the civil war. It is well documented in history how the southern sacrificed the live of thousands of young men to persevere a dying economic system based upon slavery. What happen to them may have been brutal, but they did bring it on themselves. Are you going to discuss the pain the Japanese or Germans suffered during WWII? The sad point is that southerners have been led to believe that war was for state rights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You just hit it there on the states rights thing. Why is the south still fighting that war? Because they probably still see an assault on there way of life by the Federal government which they continue to lose. The latest being the immigration mandates by our good president that of course affect the south the most.

Think of it this way. What if the state of Minnesota passed a good and sensible law limiting the number of Iowa and Wisconsin fans (bragging that their fans travel so well when we know full well that most of them came from places like Apple Valley and Anoka because their 2nd rate states can't produce decent jobs) who could attend games at TCF Stadium. But then the Federal government steps in to invalidate the law on the grounds of discrimination against oppressed minorities. We'd be yelling for states right too.
 

Let us also not forget the 100 years of post civil war oppression in America with the segregation and jim crowe laws.
 

GoForGold said:
You just hit it there on the states rights thing. Why is the south still fighting that war? Because they probably still see an assault on there way of life by the Federal government which they continue to lose. The latest being the immigration mandates by our good president that of course affect the south the most.

Think of it this way. What if the state of Minnesota passed a good and sensible law limiting the number of Iowa and Wisconsin fans (bragging that their fans travel so well when we know full well that most of them came from places like Apple Valley and Anoka because their 2nd rate states can't produce decent jobs) who could attend games at TCF Stadium. But then the Federal government steps in to invalidate the law on the grounds of discrimination against oppressed minorities. We'd be yelling for states right too.
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I wouldn't be yelling for states rights. I'd be yelling at the state for passing such a monumentally stupid law.
 

GoForGold said:
You just hit it there on the states rights thing. Why is the south still fighting that war? Because they probably still see an assault on there way of life by the Federal government which they continue to lose. The latest being the immigration mandates by our good president that of course affect the south the most.

Think of it this way. What if the state of Minnesota passed a good and sensible law limiting the number of Iowa and Wisconsin fans (bragging that their fans travel so well when we know full well that most of them came from places like Apple Valley and Anoka because their 2nd rate states can't produce decent jobs) who could attend games at TCF Stadium. But then the Federal government steps in to invalidate the law on the grounds of discrimination against oppressed minorities. We'd be yelling for states right too.
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Then maybe all these Southern states should stop taking the money from the Fed to support their citizens. Almost all the Southern states are takers in the Federal system.
 

As Southern transplant to Minnesota going on 25 years now I'm glad I can recognize the tongue-in-cheek flavor of most of this. Minnesota is now my home and I'm proud to be raising my kids here.

We may be "one nation under God" as a result of a bitterly fought civil war but certainly there are still regional differences across our great land. These are to be enjoyed and in fact be poked at in good fun. Lutefisk or "My Cousin Vinny" come to mind here

I advised Buck Buchanan's family (and someone on our plane down) to visit the Andersonville National Monument and Prisoner of War Museum. Both reported this visit was a highlight of the bowl trip. If you're in central Georgia on I-75 in the future, it's well worth the 2 hour diversion for this.

A fan board is not really the place to delve too deep into these regional differences but it should be no surprise that to the degree The North vs. The South permeates other aspects of our culture that it would show up in football too. Whether the War Between The States is really what drives what an Auburn fan might think now is pretty tenuous in my mind.

For those around long enough there was a similar thread back when we played in the two Music City Bowls last decade with Alabama and Arkansas. This one is a little tamer, which for one I'm glad to see.

Go Gophers! Thanks North Carolina for Bobby Bell!
 

Kuato Lives! said:
I wouldn't be yelling for states rights. I'd be yelling at the state for passing such a monumentally stupid law.
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Hey, I kind of like the idea. Or maybe charging them double for tickets. Call it an non-resident rate, like we have for fishing licences.
 

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