Cancelling all student debt

mjfelton15

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I can’t imagine having such a sense of entitlement that I knowingly go to many years of college that I know will be expensive (and if I don’t I’m a total idiot), rack up $250,000 in debt, and then if my parents didn’t pay all of it already I expect the tax payers to. Where is the accountability? You accrue the debt, you pay it yourself. That simple. Don’t take on debt you aren’t prepared to handle. It’s just like all of the people during the housing crisis that got approved for a $400,000 home, knowing damn well they’d never afford it. It’s just pure stupidity.
In addition, not everyone deserves college. Not everyone is ready for college. Not everyone is meant to go to college. There are other avenues to success than a 4 year degree. People need to start realizing this, and I think they’re just now starting to. The trades are desperate for guys, in every area. Laborers, Carpenters, Electricians, Plumbers, Pipe fitters, Welders. I’m a carpenter myself.
 

stocker08

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I can’t imagine having such a sense of entitlement that I knowingly go to many years of college that I know will be expensive (and if I don’t I’m a total idiot), rack up $250,000 in debt, and then if my parents didn’t pay all of it already I expect the tax payers to. Where is the accountability? You accrue the debt, you pay it yourself. That simple. Don’t take on debt you aren’t prepared to handle. It’s just like all of the people during the housing crisis that got approved for a $400,000 home, knowing damn well they’d never afford it. It’s just pure stupidity.
In addition, not everyone deserves college. Not everyone is ready for college. Not everyone is meant to go to college. There are other avenues to success than a 4 year degree. People need to start realizing this, and I think they’re just now starting to. The trades are desperate for guys, in every area. Laborers, Carpenters, Electricians, Plumbers, Pipe fitters, Welders. I’m a carpenter myself.

Not to mention that many of those trades that you bring up, are very well paying jobs these days. And part of that is because we have this societal idea that the natural step after high school is a four year college. Free tuition would simply compound the problem. It would encourage kids who are not prepared or not motivated to enter into the system only to waste the opportunity and lots of money at the same time. It would be a disaster.
 

mjfelton15

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Not to mention that many of those trades that you bring up, are very well paying jobs these days. And part of that is because we have this societal idea that the natural step after high school is a four year college. Free tuition would simply compound the problem. It would encourage kids who are not prepared or not motivated to enter into the system only to waste the opportunity and lots of money at the same time. It would be a disaster.
Totally agree with you
 

stocker08

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Totally agree with you

Even without the government (the taxpayers) footing the bill....I have a few friends that spent several years in school with no degree to show for it. I cannot even imagine the amount of waste that free tuition would promote.
 

Deleted_User

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Wouldn't the conservative view to eliminate student debt is to ban incurring the debt and to only go when you have saved up enough to pay?
 



Deleted_User

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Retard say what?
Yes. I somehow butchered what I was thinking and it got botched as I was racing ahead of my fingers.

I'll retry. Wouldn't the conservative view to eliminate student debt simply be encouraging students to save enough money to attend college when they can pay in cash?
 

mjfelton15

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Yes. I somehow butchered what I was thinking and it got botched as I was racing ahead of my fingers.

I'll retry. Wouldn't the conservative view to eliminate student debt simply be encouraging students to save enough money to attend college when they can pay in cash?
I’m conservative, but I have nothing wrong with loans. if the person taking the loan plans to pay the money back, and actually does so, I don’t see the issue. If people were to take THAT conservative of an approach, and only pay in cash for college, then the same would be expected for buying a house and car. I can’t envision people ever getting a house or a car if they had to pay for both up front. My great grandpa bought every vehicle he ever owned with cash, but I don’t think he’d have been able to do the same with his house.
 

KillmeNow

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Ban you for being stupid. It's pretty clear that your UN had to do with coach Kill. Thinking that your UN was somehow too clever to figure out verifies everything.


Dude, they should ban you for being SO horribly unfunny. Have you EVER told a joke anyone laughed at? Or were they just laughing at you?
 



KillmeNow

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Yes. I somehow butchered what I was thinking and it got botched as I was racing ahead of my fingers.

I'll retry. Wouldn't the conservative view to eliminate student debt simply be encouraging students to save enough money to attend college when they can pay in cash?

No, the conservative view would be that everyone wanting a loan, can explain how they will be able to pay the loan back. If they are going to go 250,000 dollars in debt, they better be getting a job that makes a lot of money, so they can pay that 250,000 dollar college debt down. Docs and Lawyers make a lot of money, so maybe 250,000 is not that much to them. But I ain't paying for that mfs college debt.
 

MplsGopher

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Not to mention that many of those trades that you bring up, are very well paying jobs these days. And part of that is because we have this societal idea that the natural step after high school is a four year college.
Even though this is your point, and your point is correct, it’s jobs.

Kids are being taught from an early age that you need a four year degree to have any kind of decent job and decent life.

For most desk jobs, it is true, they won’t even look at your resume if you don’t have a bachelor of some kind, from some where (even online).
 

MplsGopher

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I’m conservative, but I have nothing wrong with loans. if the person taking the loan plans to pay the money back, and actually does so, I don’t see the issue. If people were to take THAT conservative of an approach, and only pay in cash for college, then the same would be expected for buying a house and car. I can’t envision people ever getting a house or a car if they had to pay for both up front. My great grandpa bought every vehicle he ever owned with cash, but I don’t think he’d have been able to do the same with his house.
Despite the thread title, this is the completely reasonable viewpoint that the vast majority of Americans share.

As I’ve said on the thread, some level of loan forgiveness, for certain people/situations makes sense to me. But nowhere near “for all”.
 

Spaulding!No!

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I can’t imagine having such a sense of entitlement that I knowingly go to many years of college that I know will be expensive (and if I don’t I’m a total idiot), rack up $250,000 in debt, and then if my parents didn’t pay all of it already I expect the tax payers to. Where is the accountability? You accrue the debt, you pay it yourself. That simple. Don’t take on debt you aren’t prepared to handle. It’s just like all of the people during the housing crisis that got approved for a $400,000 home, knowing damn well they’d never afford it. It’s just pure stupidity.
In addition, not everyone deserves college. Not everyone is ready for college. Not everyone is meant to go to college. There are other avenues to success than a 4 year degree. People need to start realizing this, and I think they’re just now starting to. The trades are desperate for guys, in every area. Laborers, Carpenters, Electricians, Plumbers, Pipe fitters, Welders. I’m a carpenter myself.
do win when you play Hammerschlagen at the bar? i always figure the carpenters are just sitting back waitin to hustle all of us.
 



stocker08

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Dude, they should ban you for being SO horribly unfunny. Have you EVER told a joke anyone laughed at? Or were they just laughing at you?

Don't be mad, kid. Just because you are doofy as all hell doesn't mean that you can't grow up.
 

Deleted_User

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Debt has a funny way of driving up cost. And, it drives up the cost of goods and services as people want higher outcomes due to the higher cost. So, you go to school, and you expect higher pay than the next guy because you invested more. Yet, that other guy in the marketplace may be just as competent as you and he drives down the price of your earnings. So, to protect our investments, we build societies, associations, protection rackets around our education investment. Again, artificially driving up earnings so that we can justify what we just went through in paying for education. We hire gate keepers, called HR to protect our higher cost in the labor market. And, we create questionable algorithms to "prove" our worth is higher than other people. And, we create these "societies" as gate keepers of entry into positions to limit the marketplace from "unqualified applicants". And, we export training from job sites to places we call 'institutions of higher learning.' The whole thing is based on the notion of protecting our interests. And, we gatekeep the "higher learning" centers to keep the marketplace from flooding. Yet, in order to survive, the gatekeepers must betray us for their own vested interests. The whole thing is a construct of fools. We have created a society that only Rube Goldberg would find perfect.

If we tried to undo this mess, the whole thing would collapse and really hurt.

If we truly loved one another, we would teach one another. If we truly loved one another, we build each other homes. We would grow food for one another. Heal one another. Etc. But, because we value being right, truth, power, being 'correct', and a dozen other constructs of not loving one another, we drive ourselves to building a society on Rube Goldberg social constructs, making it hard to do something simple, like build a house, plant a tree, grow it, harvest and build another house with that tree. We make a home cost so much, it takes a third of a lifetime to "pay for it", than if you built it yourself over three months and paid for the materials in 2 years time. It really is an obscene proposition that a house takes up to 10 years of income to pay for something that should cost 1/5th that amount.

Humans are greedy idiots. We have protected ourselves right out of being healthy and happy.
 

MplsGopher

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We hire gate keepers, called HR to protect our higher cost in the labor market.
...
And, we create these "societies" as gate keepers of entry into positions to limit the marketplace from "unqualified applicants". And, we export training from job sites to places we call 'institutions of higher learning.'
They still have to train everyone to actually do the job, for the most part.

It's just a hoop, of some minimum acceptable height, that you have to prove you can leap through, before they'll even consider you. It's a "free" way to weed out a whole bunch of people, saving HR's time, and likely saving a bunch of manager time and training resources from being spent on someone who might not do well at the job.


You can, of course, look backwards and say "how many people in desk jobs right now would've been just as successful in those jobs, if they had started right out of high school?" Probably quite a lot. But there is no way to know who for sure, looking forward from the HR end.

I suppose there is also some amount of maturing that happens over the ages of 18-22 ish, that you can factor in as well.
 


Nokomis

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Debt has a funny way of driving up cost. And, it drives up the cost of goods and services as people want higher outcomes due to the higher cost. So, you go to school, and you expect higher pay than the next guy because you invested more. Yet, that other guy in the marketplace may be just as competent as you and he drives down the price of your earnings. So, to protect our investments, we build societies, associations, protection rackets around our education investment. Again, artificially driving up earnings so that we can justify what we just went through in paying for education. We hire gate keepers, called HR to protect our higher cost in the labor market. And, we create questionable algorithms to "prove" our worth is higher than other people. And, we create these "societies" as gate keepers of entry into positions to limit the marketplace from "unqualified applicants". And, we export training from job sites to places we call 'institutions of higher learning.' The whole thing is based on the notion of protecting our interests. And, we gatekeep the "higher learning" centers to keep the marketplace from flooding. Yet, in order to survive, the gatekeepers must betray us for their own vested interests. The whole thing is a construct of fools. We have created a society that only Rube Goldberg would find perfect.

If we tried to undo this mess, the whole thing would collapse and really hurt.

If we truly loved one another, we would teach one another. If we truly loved one another, we build each other homes. We would grow food for one another. Heal one another. Etc. But, because we value being right, truth, power, being 'correct', and a dozen other constructs of not loving one another, we drive ourselves to building a society on Rube Goldberg social constructs, making it hard to do something simple, like build a house, plant a tree, grow it, harvest and build another house with that tree. We make a home cost so much, it takes a third of a lifetime to "pay for it", than if you built it yourself over three months and paid for the materials in 2 years time. It really is an obscene proposition that a house takes up to 10 years of income to pay for something that should cost 1/5th that amount.

Humans are greedy idiots. We have protected ourselves right out of being healthy and happy.
Now that is some incoherent rambling. But you may just be on to something.
 


mjfelton15

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do win when you play Hammerschlagen at the bar? i always figure the carpenters are just sitting back waitin to hustle all of us.
I’ve never played it actually. Haha. But yeah I think a lot of carpenters would hustle the crap out of the average player.
 

stocker08

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Details are light as of now, but it sounds like Trump is suspending interest on federal student loans for the time being. An astute move.
 

TruthSeeker

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So, Trump is introducing more stimulus to the economy and increasing the debt by waiving student loan interest? What a buffoon. Why are we subsidizing bad decisions?

I hear he is also going to bailout oil and coal. More crony capitalism for a dying industry. We need him out of office now.
 

mplarson7

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Last I read, required monthly payments won't be changed at all. So not exactly helpful for anyone that loses their income because of the outbreak.
 

Bad Gopher

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Last I read, required monthly payments won't be changed at all. So not exactly helpful for anyone that loses their income because of the outbreak.
Yeah, puzzling. Someone's going to have to explain to me what good this does anyone, particularly through the duration of the crisis.
 

stocker08

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Yeah, puzzling. Someone's going to have to explain to me what good this does anyone, particularly through the duration of the crisis.

That is odd. However....paying down extra on principal is definitely a benefit. 5, 6, 7% interest on student loans is a joke.
 

mplarson7

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That is odd. However....paying down extra on principal is definitely a benefit. 5, 6, 7% interest on student loans is a joke.
Oh hell yeah, I'm gonna take it if they're gonna give it. :cool02:
 

MplsGopher

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Details are light as of now, but it sounds like Trump is suspending interest on federal student loans for the time being. An astute move.
Like everything he does that falls outside the agenda he campaigned on, this is just a play.

He's making a play for college kids that would've voted Bernie.

Prison reform is just a play for blacks. Etc.
 

MplsGopher

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Last I read, required monthly payments won't be changed at all. So not exactly helpful for anyone that loses their income because of the outbreak.
So what actually is being enacted?

Just that, from March 2020 onward, to some date in the future, there will be no additional accrued interest?

Certainly, he isn't wiping all interest on all federal student loans back to zero. What has been accrued to this point, will still be there.
 

mplarson7

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So what actually is being enacted?

Just that, from March 2020 onward, to some date in the future, there will be no additional accrued interest?

Certainly, he isn't wiping all interest on all federal student loans back to zero. What has been accrued to this point, will still be there.
It sounds to me like interest accrual will stop for the time being retroactive to Friday and any prior interest will not be cleared. But the federal loan servicers had literally no idea this was coming, there apparently hadn't been any discussion with them about it. So until an official statement is put out, I'm cautious about it.
 

MplsGopher

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That's the hallmark of the Trump presidency: just say and do whatever comes to mind, in the moment.

Don't plan things with other people. Don't have meetings with them. Don't consider what others think.

Just force whatever comes to mind in the moment.



Get this clown out of the WH.
 




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