Bring back the bubble screen!

[CWCWCW]

Gawd! I used to think that was so overplayed during the Mason years. But, thinking about it now, I would like to see it run a couple times per game. Decker is a good physical blocker. Throw it to Stoudemire and let's see what he can do in the open field. Why not give it a whirl? Our team certainly doesn't have an offensive identity yet in Week 7.

 

[The 12th Man]

While I disagree that we don't have an identity and think that people just throw that term out for any successful team, that is another argument.

Are you talking a bubble screen out of twins or a swing pass to a single wideout? I agree that screens and swings can be a good way to get guys out of the box and open things up for the running game. It keeps defenders honest and forces the DBs to play tighter, thus opening things up for Decker downfield.

That is a good idea.

 

[frozengopher]

I would say this is a great idea as well, but it brings memories of that God-awful diamond/quad formation they play with the lineman lined up at wideout. Terrible. Simply terrible. Who came up with that crap? I've seen it done twice now, and fail twice as well.

 

[monk10]

We ran a version of it with the RB in this game with Bennet. Instead of using a WR we used a RB coming out of the backfield.

 

[monk10]

I would say this is a great idea as well, but it brings memories of that God-awful diamond/quad formation they play with the lineman lined up at wideout. Terrible. Simply terrible. Who came up with that crap? I've seen it done twice now, and fail twice as well.

Linemen fails to block a LB in space twice. I wonder who they block in practice to make them think this will work.

 

[The 12th Man]

We ran a version of it with the RB in this game with Bennet. Instead of using a WR we used a RB coming out of the backfield.

The problem with a RB is that it can be a very easy read for the LB coming from the middle. If you get good blocking from a WR/FB/TE, or catch the defense in a blitz, it can be a good play. More often than not, a play that looks like a swing to the RB is actually just a very fast check down or even a hot read if the QB sees an OLB blitzing.

The benefit of a quick swing to the outside is that it gets a WR one on one with a DB. In general, CBs are a team's worst tacklers. If defenses are gearing up to rush Weber and are sending backers hard, screen passes are a good way to slow them down. Sometimes the threat of an effective screen is enough to stop a defense from blitzing. That would then give Weber a bit more time to throw.

 

[monk10]

I think the reason we are developing and running so many variations of screen is to indicatate that we will screen any time, any place on the field and to anybody. We haven't bubble screened in the last couple of games, maybe b/c our offense is so bad we aren't running enough plays. But it felt like early in the season we tried to screen for stoudamire at least once a game. Unfortunately I don't think we had much success since LB's aren't pinching into the box, since our running game can pretty much be held down with minimal help.

 

[The 12th Man]

I think the reason we are developing and running so many variations of screen is to indicatate that we will screen any time, any place on the field and to anybody. We haven't bubble screened in the last couple of games, maybe b/c our offense is so bad we aren't running enough plays. But it felt like early in the season we tried to screen for stoudamire at least once a game. Unfortunately I don't think we had much success since LB's aren't pinching into the box, since our running game can pretty much be held down with minimal help.

Good point. It seems like the "identity" Fisch is going for is using the run to set up the PA pass and open up things downfield. That is why we have seen so few passes from Weber. The run is not working, so the team gets shut down.

An idea might be to make it even more pro-style. Use the pass to open up the run. The Eagles are one example of a team that does this, as they throw a ton to their RBs. In a college setting, USC is a team that does this as well. They throw a ton of high-percentage passes to RBs and three-step drops. This keeps LBs on their heels and opens things up for the run. Granted, they have an incredible OL and RBs every year, but I digress. The scheme is what I am talking about here.

I actually like Fisch's offense, but I want to see Weber throw more. Play to the team's strengths and don't pander to the "pound the rock" mentality. The goal is to win the game, not play to an "identity." The best players on the field for the Gophers are the WRs. I see nothing wrong with making the offense run around them. Take the OL's weakness out of the game as much as possible.

Broken down, I think three-step passes and throws to the RBs out of the backfield are the key to getting the offense running again. Basically, make it easier on Weber and play to the team's strengths.

 

[STPGopher]

Good point. It seems like the "identity" Fisch is going for is using the run to set up the PA pass and open up things downfield. That is why we have seen so few passes from Weber. The run is not working, so the team gets shut down.

An idea might be to make it even more pro-style. Use the pass to open up the run. The Eagles are one example of a team that does this, as they throw a ton to their RBs. In a college setting, USC is a team that does this as well. They throw a ton of high-percentage passes to RBs and three-step drops. This keeps LBs on their heels and opens things up for the run. Granted, they have an incredible OL and RBs every year, but I digress. The scheme is what I am talking about here.

I actually like Fisch's offense, but I want to see Weber throw more. Play to the team's strengths and don't pander to the "pound the rock" mentality. The goal is to win the game, not play to an "identity." The best players on the field for the Gophers are the WRs. I see nothing wrong with making the offense run around them. Take the OL's weakness out of the game as much as possible.

Broken down, I think three-step passes and throws to the RBs out of the backfield are the key to getting the offense running again. Basically, make it easier on Weber and play to the team's strengths.

I like it. I just hope that we would be patient and have the ability to set it up where it is fast developing. OSU's LB's will be fast, so these would most likely be short gains. The O may need to be okay with 3 to 4 yard gains and staying focused with the thought that eventually this may open up a big gainer(20 yards or more).

 

[The 12th Man]

I like it. I just hope that we would be patient and have the ability to set it up where it is fast developing. OSU's LB's will be fast, so these would most likely be short gains. The O may need to be okay with 3 to 4 yard gains and staying focused with the thought that eventually this may open up a big gainer(20 yards or more).

Completely agree. There are an infinite number of three-step route combinations. It isn't too hard to come up with ones that even allow for a quick shot downfield if the QB's first read is there.

Another step after that is a pass-action run. Quick pump-fake followed by a draw is a good example.

BTW- I love these threads. Fun, football-related, and still focused on what the Gophers currently do.

 

[nemosgold]

Good point. It seems like the "identity" Fisch is going for is using the run to set up the PA pass and open up things downfield. That is why we have seen so few passes from Weber. The run is not working, so the team gets shut down.

An idea might be to make it even more pro-style. Use the pass to open up the run. The Eagles are one example of a team that does this, as they throw a ton to their RBs. In a college setting, USC is a team that does this as well. They throw a ton of high-percentage passes to RBs and three-step drops. This keeps LBs on their heels and opens things up for the run. Granted, they have an incredible OL and RBs every year, but I digress. The scheme is what I am talking about here.

I actually like Fisch's offense, but I want to see Weber throw more. Play to the team's strengths and don't pander to the "pound the rock" mentality. The goal is to win the game, not play to an "identity." The best players on the field for the Gophers are the WRs. I see nothing wrong with making the offense run around them. Take the OL's weakness out of the game as much as possible.

Broken down, I think three-step passes and throws to the RBs out of the backfield are the key to getting the offense running again. Basically, make it easier on Weber and play to the team's strengths.

AGREE!!!!!

 

[RedPoo]

Linemen fails to block a LB in space twice. I wonder who they block in practice to make them think this will work.

And who they fool with this play. I think Fisch is breaking new ground in telegraphing...we've got to be a smart defensive player's dream opponent.

 

[Khaliq]

Play to the team's strengths and don't pander to the "pound the rock" mentality.

So line up in a punting formation and pooch it back to Stoudemire?

It's so crazy it just might work.

 

[The 12th Man]

So line up in a punting formation and pooch it back to Stoudemire?

It's so crazy it just might work.

I know you are making a joke, but I hope you are not missing the point here. If you want to "pound the rock," get the players to do it. If you want "basketball on turf," get the players to do it. We have a bunch of good WRs and a running game that has showed so far that it is not capable of carrying the load (no pun intended), though it has been ok in spurts. Play to the team's strengths.

 

[MGGopher]

I know you are making a joke, but I hope you are not missing the point here. If you want to "pound the rock," get the players to do it. If you want "basketball on turf," get the players to do it. We have a bunch of good WRs and a running game that has showed so far that it is not capable of carrying the load (no pun intended), though it has been ok in spurts. Play to the team's strengths.

Agree 1000%! We've been recruiting a SPREAD team for the past 2+ years...not a "pound the rock" team. I understand wanting to transition to the pro-style offense, and I'm OK with that--you're going to have growing pains until you recruit your personnel. But without a dominant blocking TE, a recruited FB, and some TB's who are downhill runners, who are we kidding lining up in the I-formation 20 times a game? We have the spread in our arsenal...it's been run in Fisch's offense. It's what we have the athletes for and what they're comfortable in. Why not line up in THAT 20 times a game (play to our strengths) and use the downhill running stuff as the supplement to it, rather than vice versa? We simply don't have the personnel to beat good teams playing the type of game Fisch wants to play, IMHO. Hey, I'll support the team and root my butt off either way, but those are my honest opinions...we're going to continue getting dominated at the L.O.S. unless we make a philosophy change for this year.

 

[The 12th Man]

Agree 1000%! We've been recruiting a SPREAD team for the past 2+ years...not a "pound the rock" team. I understand wanting to transition to the pro-style offense, and I'm OK with that--you're going to have growing pains until you recruit your personnel. But without a dominant blocking TE, a recruited FB, and some TB's who are downhill runners, who are we kidding lining up in the I-formation 20 times a game? We have the spread in our arsenal...it's been run in Fisch's offense. It's what we have the athletes for and what they're comfortable in. Why not line up in THAT 20 times a game (play to our strengths) and use the downhill running stuff as the supplement to it, rather than vice versa? We simply don't have the personnel to beat good teams playing the type of game Fisch wants to play, IMHO. Hey, I'll support the team and root my butt off either way, but those are my honest opinions...we're going to continue getting dominated at the L.O.S. unless we make a philosophy change for this year.

I even think they could line up in the I and get away with it. After all, you don't want to give away when you will run and when you will pass. A Twins formation out of the I is a good way to play with one side of the field.

 

[monk10]

I think there was hope that if we weren't running the spread we could run the ball. There was a lot of blame on the spread for our lack of running game last year. We were forced into a quick passing game that eventually got shut down by playing a flat zone. I'm not sure if we went to a 3 step drop that would happen to us again. However, at this point anything is probably something worth trying.

 

[stevedave23]

For the most par the bubble screen was used by Mason's teams because defenses would cheat to play the run. The 2009 gophers couldn't scare a 5 year old girl with their running game.

Regarding a return to the spread, remember this: a quick strike, throw every play offense puts a lot of pressure on your defense because they're on the field all day. Now, if your offense isn't able to get 1st downs like last saturday it doesn't matter but I IMHO part of the reason this year's defense is performing better is the fact that the gophers are NOT running the spread.

 

[The 12th Man]

For the most par the bubble screen was used by Mason's teams because defenses would cheat to play the run. The 2009 gophers couldn't scare a 5 year old girl with their running game.

Regarding a return to the spread, remember this: a quick strike, throw every play offense puts a lot of pressure on your defense because they're on the field all day. Now, if your offense isn't able to get 1st downs like last saturday it doesn't matter but I IMHO part of the reason this year's defense is performing better is the fact that the gophers are NOT running the spread.

There is a difference between running the spread and just throwing the ball more within a pro-style concept. If the run can't open up the pass, then the pass needs to open up the run.

I might also argue that the defense isn't doing better this year (I'm sure someone will throw out some stats), but that isn't really the point of this thread.

 

[tikited]

We have tried some versions of the bubble screen and they haven't worked very well. Bad blocking, high throws, slow receivers, etc.. We just can't seem to make a regular screen work so the bubble screen gets scrapped. I shudder to think what the OSU linebackers would do to our enemic screens!! Imagine this: "Webber throws high to Stoudemire, oooh he's hit right away. Loss of 6." If we block and the pass is right on it could work. So far it hasn't.