Big 10 fans guide to countering a SEC snob

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I saw they mentioned OSU has 39 sports...couldn't believe that was even possible. Check and they offer sports such as rifle, pistol, fencing....
Didn't even realize those were NCAA sports.
 

Kind of thought the article lacked some substance. Seems he didn't really even try very hard?

How about this little factoid?

Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan or Wisconsin, take your pick, any one of those 4 schools produces more Nobel Prize Winners than the ENTIRE SEC combined.


Maryland ranks 7th among B1G schools in Nobel production, and is tied with the SEC's top producer Vanderbilt.


Rankings of B1G and SEC schools in # of Graduates with Nobels and total # associated in some way with each University.


1. U of Illinois - 13 graduates & 24 total
2. Minnesota - 8 graduates & 23 total
3. Michigan - 8 graduates & 22 total
4. Wisconsin - 11 graduates & 19 total
5. Purdue U - 2 graduates & 11 total
6. Nrthwstrn - 3 graduates & 9 total
7. Maryland - 2 graduates & 7 total

7. Vanderbilt - 2 graduates & 7 total

9. Indiana - 1 graduate & 7 total
10. Ohio St - 2 graduates & 4 total

11. Tex A&M - 0 graduates & 4 total
12. Florida - 2 graduates & 3 total

13. Mich St - 1 graduate & 2 total
14. Penn St - 1 graduate & 1 total

14. Tennessee - 1 graduate & 1 total
16. Mississippi - 0 graduates & 1 total


So the B1G would have 9 of the Top 10 if you only included schools from the 2 conferences.


In total, the B1G has produced 52 graduates that have won Nobel Prizes and SEC schools have produced 5.


52 to 5.


11 of 14 Big Schools have produced graduates who went on to win Nobel Prize winners.

3 of 14 SEC schools have produced graduates who went on to win Nobel Prize winners.



And I am being nice and not including the Univ of Chicago and their 31 graduates with Nobel Prizes and 89 total.




And if I made a bit of an effort, I am sure I could come up with about another dozen ways the B1G totally blows away the SEC.
 


Word said:
I saw they mentioned OSU has 39 sports...couldn't believe that was even possible. Check and they offer sports such as rifle, pistol, fencing....
Didn't even realize those were NCAA sports.
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I bet they offer men's soccer too.
 

I'm sorry, but if you're having a discussion about football and decide to pull out facts about number of PhDs awarded, women's gymnastics, or athletic budget percentages, you've just lost the argument. Those are all good things, but it would be like having a debate on whose car is faster and someone saying, "I have more in my 401k" instead of talking about 0-60 time. At least talk about how comfortable the seats are or how loud the car stereo is.

I don't think anyone would dispute B1G prowess when it comes to academics, but that's not exactly fodder for a bar conversation about football. Imagine your reaction if we were discussing whether UM or A&M has higher externally-funded research expenditures and I started talking about stadium capacity, number of student organizations on campus, or who has produced more Miss Americas.

I think there's enough talking points about athletics that can help build a case for your conference without having to resort to academic smack. How about a national championship? Wisconsin over Auburn. Competitiveness in facilities, attendance, television ratings, etc.
 

Yes I believe a convincing argument can be made that the SEC's football title binge was partly a product of perception of their conference and the fact that the polls picking who was the best team to pit against them was more or less picking the team with the best record as opposed to the best team, and now that we have the playoff we're seeing that the SEC was overvalued (thank God the SEC didn't end up with multiple teams in the playoff, as surely they did not deserve that) and the Big Ten was undervalued. MSU got screwed in 2013 by not getting a shot at the title when they, similar to 2014 OSU, improved a lot throughout the season and simply was ignored in favor of an Auburn team that had the same record but with many more lucky breaks. It was always a joke that 2003 LSU got in ahead of USC. Of course it was silly to have a national title game between two teams from the same division of the SEC that had already played earlier in the season, in no other conference is that possible. Remember when the polls said that four of the top-5 teams were from the SEC West? Thank goodness that didn't mean anything in the end, as the SEC West ended up with just one top-10 team (and just 2 in the top-15). Perception of the SEC was a heavy factor in the SEC's run, ensuring the SEC always had at least half of the teams competing and keeping other deserving teams with equal records out of the championship. Clearly the results this playoff showed that the team with the best record was not best-suited for playing for the title, but in the old system that is always what you got, the SEC champ against another team with the best record from a power conference. A warning to the SEC lovers is they would've gotten another title under the old system (Bama-FSU), but that's gone now, and in the new system the SEC is clearly not going to win the title as often.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
Kind of thought the article lacked some substance. Seems he didn't really even try very hard?

How about this little factoid?

Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan or Wisconsin, take your pick, any one of those 4 schools produces more Nobel Prize Winners than the ENTIRE SEC combined.


Maryland ranks 7th among B1G schools in Nobel production, and is tied with the SEC's top producer Vanderbilt.


Rankings of B1G and SEC schools in # of Graduates with Nobels and total # associated in some way with each University.


1. U of Illinois - 13 graduates & 24 total
2. Minnesota - 8 graduates & 23 total
3. Michigan - 8 graduates & 22 total
4. Wisconsin - 11 graduates & 19 total
5. Purdue U - 2 graduates & 11 total
6. Nrthwstrn - 3 graduates & 9 total
7. Maryland - 2 graduates & 7 total

7. Vanderbilt - 2 graduates & 7 total

9. Indiana - 1 graduate & 7 total
10. Ohio St - 2 graduates & 4 total

11. Tex A&M - 0 graduates & 4 total
12. Florida - 2 graduates & 3 total

13. Mich St - 1 graduate & 2 total
14. Penn St - 1 graduate & 1 total

14. Tennessee - 1 graduate & 1 total
16. Mississippi - 0 graduates & 1 total


So the B1G would have 9 of the Top 10 if you only included schools from the 2 conferences.


In total, the B1G has produced 52 graduates that have won Nobel Prizes and SEC schools have produced 5.


52 to 5.


11 of 14 Big Schools have produced graduates who went on to win Nobel Prize winners.

3 of 14 SEC schools have produced graduates who went on to win Nobel Prize winners.



And I am being nice and not including the Univ of Chicago and their 31 graduates with Nobel Prizes and 89 total.




And if I made a bit of an effort, I am sure I could come up with about another dozen ways the B1G totally blows away the SEC.
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No Iowa? Lol
 



TexasAggie11 said:
I'm sorry, but if you're having a discussion about football and decide to pull out facts about number of PhDs awarded, women's gymnastics, or athletic budget percentages, you've just lost the argument. Those are all good things, but it would be like having a debate on whose car is faster and someone saying, "I have more in my 401k" instead of talking about 0-60 time. At least talk about how comfortable the seats are or how loud the car stereo is.

I don't think anyone would dispute B1G prowess when it comes to academics, but that's not exactly fodder for a bar conversation about football. Imagine your reaction if we were discussing whether UM or A&M has higher externally-funded research expenditures and I started talking about stadium capacity, number of student organizations on campus, or who has produced more Miss Americas.

I think there's enough talking points about athletics that can help build a case for your conference without having to resort to academic smack. How about a national championship? Wisconsin over Auburn. Competitiveness in facilities, attendance, television ratings, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I do think priorities are important and that academics are more important than sports. The bowl results raise serious questions as to whether the SEC is in fact superior to the B1G in football - I think its clear that the B1G is in fact superior in virtually every other sport - but I think it is clearly appropriate for the B1G to point out that its priorities are superior to the SEC.
 

OSUfan said:
Yes I believe a convincing argument can be made that the SEC's football title binge was partly a product of perception of their conference and the fact that the polls picking who was the best team to pit against them was more or less picking the team with the best record as opposed to the best team, and now that we have the playoff we're seeing that the SEC was overvalued (thank God the SEC didn't end up with multiple teams in the playoff, as surely they did not deserve that) and the Big Ten was undervalued. MSU got screwed in 2013 by not getting a shot at the title when they, similar to 2014 OSU, improved a lot throughout the season and simply was ignored in favor of an Auburn team that had the same record but with many more lucky breaks. It was always a joke that 2003 LSU got in ahead of USC. Of course it was silly to have a national title game between two teams from the same division of the SEC that had already played earlier in the season, in no other conference is that possible. Remember when the polls said that four of the top-5 teams were from the SEC West? Thank goodness that didn't mean anything in the end, as the SEC West ended up with just one top-10 team (and just 2 in the top-15). Perception of the SEC was a heavy factor in the SEC's run, ensuring the SEC always had at least half of the teams competing and keeping other deserving teams with equal records out of the championship. Clearly the results this playoff showed that the team with the best record was not best-suited for playing for the title, but in the old system that is always what you got, the SEC champ against another team with the best record from a power conference. A warning to the SEC lovers is they would've gotten another title under the old system (Bama-FSU), but that's gone now, and in the new system the SEC is clearly not going to win the title as often.
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Skip Bayless said late in the season that if they really wanted to get the top four teams in the playoffs, they should take four teams from the SEC West. I know Bayless is an idiot but that still shows the bias there is.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Skip Bayless said late in the season that if they really wanted to get the top four teams in the playoffs, they should take four teams from the SEC West. I know Bayless is an idiot but that still shows the bias there is.
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It also highlights, with an exclamation point, in bold, that the playoff should be expanded to allow for Power 5 champions. Leave the "experts" on the selection committee out of it.
 

TexasAggie11 said:
I'm sorry, but if you're having a discussion about football and decide to pull out facts about number of PhDs awarded, women's gymnastics, or athletic budget percentages, you've just lost the argument. Those are all good things, but it would be like having a debate on whose car is faster and someone saying, "I have more in my 401k" instead of talking about 0-60 time. At least talk about how comfortable the seats are or how loud the car stereo is.

I don't think anyone would dispute B1G prowess when it comes to academics, but that's not exactly fodder for a bar conversation about football. Imagine your reaction if we were discussing whether UM or A&M has higher externally-funded research expenditures and I started talking about stadium capacity, number of student organizations on campus, or who has produced more Miss Americas.

I think there's enough talking points about athletics that can help build a case for your conference without having to resort to academic smack. How about a national championship? Wisconsin over Auburn. Competitiveness in facilities, attendance, television ratings, etc.
Click to expand...

But I think it's fair to say it's a lot harder and more meaningful to have success in big time football when your university keeps academics as the highest priority, not the other way around. I think that relationship was the point of the discussion above.

In other words, some B1G fans think (not sure how I feel about this personally) that the brand, luster and prestige of SEC football itself is diminished because they use players who would never get into and/or stay eligible at a B1G school, are reputed to be big time cheaters in recruiting, and spend more money on football than a responsible university should.
 



TexasAggie11 said:
I think there's enough talking points about athletics that can help build a case for your conference without having to resort to academic smack. How about a national championship? Wisconsin over Auburn. Competitiveness in facilities, attendance, television ratings, etc.
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Texas has NFL teams, just follow them if you believe academics are meaningless in a discussion about the success of a program. Attitudes like this are what is destroying college football.
 

Ski U Master said:
Texas has NFL teams, just follow them if you believe academics are meaningless in a discussion about the success of a program. Attitudes like this are what is destroying college football.
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Your point? (Oops, I think I quoted the wrong comment).

It is no secret that the B1G does have a greater interest in the student athlete than the average SEC school. All schools are accredited research institutions, they have realistic limits on over signing recruits, entrance requirements are generally more difficult, etc... I am not saying the B1G does not have room for improvement or that they are the Ivy League, but they are light years ahead of the SEC. And don't go reciting graduation statistics, or some trumped up GPA's as a sign that the SEC is in line. It is much easier to graduate or get an A in Sport Management than is is in Engineering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I agree with Aggie. It is exactly what happens at high school basketball games especially against Hopkins. Whenever the team there playing gets down by 20 they just start chanting "play us in Hockey!" or "one sport school!" I didn't read the article but I think it's telling when Kentucky in 2014 had a better composite rated recruiting class than Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin or Nebraska and only two spots behind Michigan.
 

everybody knows my name said:
All true, I guess, but it comes across as a snobby form of sour grapes.
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Agreed. Sour grapes is probably a better choice of words than what I might have suggested such as inferiority complex. I'm a bit amused that Couch's argument includes all the sports the B1G institutions offer as a why we are greater conference when so many people on here bitch and complain that we should cut so called non-revenue sports. I'm guessing this is not unique to the U, and I'm guessing many football fans at other B1G schools would not hesitate cutting non-revenue sports to make football better. And the so-called basketball first programs argument is comical. Is football bad because basketball comes first or does basketball, by default, become the priority because they suck at football? I think someone like J Robinson would never make this case. I'd hate to get in a pissing match with a school like Stanford on this topic. I believe they lead or are at the top of institutions that offer sports and still seem to do okay with academics. Sure, Stanford is unique but their situation makes Couch's arguments sound more like excuses.

Just so we're clear, I believe the B1G conference is great in so many ways including both academics and athletics. The best way to prove our prowess is from results in the classroom and on the field, not with lame arguments about what is holding us back.
 

I agree that the article is a bit of a stretch..... College sports in general is about the two revenue producing sports.....Football and Mens basketball...if I became czar of the U.S. and disbanded all non-revenue college sports and cut the price of all things associated with the 2 revenue sports 90% of College fans would rejoice. There is a clear reason why these sports don't produce revenue or have no entertainment value....fans clearly are not interested in them as is their right.

So it is clearly logical for some universities to focus on what their fan base is interested in and will support. Not every school has to be a big box store of sports. Some have value by being more specialized and doing that well.

As far as the academics go good for the B10 and the graduates but the degrees
Received by sec institutions are not chopped liver either and at the end of the day when talking sports winning on the court/field etc. is the name of the game.
 

vagopher said:
I'm sorry, but I do think priorities are important and that academics are more important than sports. I think it is clearly appropriate for the B1G to point out that its priorities are superior to the SEC.
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Absolutely academics are important. However, to go back to my car racing example,imagine if we were talking about who would win in the quarter mile and I said, 'well my kids are polite and on the honor roll, I give of my time and money to charity, and also have a Prius to maintain, so maybe it's harder for me to devote time and resources to working on my hot rod.' Sure, there's always more important or noble things you could bring into any discussion, but it sounds like excuses.

Again, no argument as to what is most important, just saying don't change the subject during a discussion. Let's assume that you believe religion is the most important thing in life. But you're still not going to bring into a discussion about academics that Notre Dame is better than a B1G school because their students spend more time in Mass when they could be studying. Or that their football team is better because they pray before the game.
 

TexasAggie11 said:
Absolutely academics are important. However, to go back to my car racing example,imagine if we were talking about who would win in the quarter mile and I said, 'well my kids are polite and on the honor roll, I give of my time and money to charity, and also have a Prius to maintain, so maybe it's harder for me to devote time and resources to working on my hot rod.' Sure, there's always more important or noble things you could bring into any discussion, but it sounds like excuses.

Again, no argument as to what is most important, just saying don't change the subject during a discussion. Let's assume that you believe religion is the most important thing in life. But you're still not going to bring into a discussion about academics that Notre Dame is better than a B1G school because their students spend more time in Mass when they could be studying. Or that their football team is better because they pray before the game.
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Religion isn't a mandated part of being a student athlete, academics are.
 

TexasAggie11 said:
Absolutely academics are important. However, to go back to my car racing example,imagine if we were talking about who would win in the quarter mile and I said, 'well my kids are polite and on the honor roll, I give of my time and money to charity, and also have a Prius to maintain, so maybe it's harder for me to devote time and resources to working on my hot rod.' Sure, there's always more important or noble things you could bring into any discussion, but it sounds like excuses.

Again, no argument as to what is most important, just saying don't change the subject during a discussion. Let's assume that you believe religion is the most important thing in life. But you're still not going to bring into a discussion about academics that Notre Dame is better than a B1G school because their students spend more time in Mass when they could be studying. Or that their football team is better because they pray before the game.
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This year I don't think a B1G fan has to argue academic standards in response to an SEC claim of superiority. The B1G out-preformed the SEC on the field. But I do think comparative priorities - especially academics - are relevant to a comparison of conferences. Academic standards significantly affect a schools ability to recruit high end athletes.
 

vagopher said:
The B1G out-preformed the SEC on the field.
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truman-head.png

Say what?

:)
 

vagopher said:
This year I don't think a B1G fan has to argue academic standards in response to an SEC claim of superiority. The B1G out-preformed the SEC on the field. But I do think comparative priorities - especially academics - are relevant to a comparison of conferences. Academic standards significantly affect a schools ability to recruit high end athletes.
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We went 2-2 against the SEC. Kick it down a notch.
 

vagopher said:
This year I don't think a B1G fan has to argue academic standards in response to an SEC claim of superiority. The B1G out-preformed the SEC on the field. But I do think comparative priorities - especially academics - are relevant to a comparison of conferences. Academic standards significantly affect a schools ability to recruit high end athletes.
Click to expand...


The lunacy of the pre-season AP poll will again become evident when Mississippi and Mississippi State are ranked in the top 15. I watched those teams get absolutely obliterated in their bowl games, and yet there they both were in the final poll.
 

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