Barreiro on Tubby

[Dirk Diggler]

"TUBBY SMITH -- Imagine the relief of Gophers basketball fans when they picked up today's Star Tribune and discovered, finally, the Gophers head coach taking full, major, partial, any, OK, no responsibility for the team's failed 2010-11 campaign. A month after finishing 1-10, not making the NIT and somehow wrestling Andre Ingram from Duquesne, Green Bay Milwaukee, North Dakota, South Dakota, Western Illinois, Eastern Illinois and Illinois State, Tubby declares: "I'd like to see something done to help basketball. We've done our part."

If the Gophs had an AD with any cojones, he'd pull the contract extension off the table. Now."

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He makes a fair point. I just squirmed when I saw this quote today.

"I'm never going to get caught like this again without a point guard," Smith said during his last radio show of the season in March.

WHY DID YOU RECRUIT MAVERICK IF YOU CAN'T TRUST HIM TO PLAY HIS NATURAL POSITION?!?!?!?! You can say he's a freshman, but he should still be able to be serviceable in a time of crisis. He's already 20 years old for christ's sake. Why is he still even on the team if he can't play? Why did he run off Cobbs? Ughh. What a blunder.

And now Ingram...another athlete who has a limited offensive game, JUST WHAT WE NEED.

 

[GophersOnTheRise]

I didn't know you could get wireless from under a bridge. Interesting.

 

[EG#9]

The "we've done our part" quote from Tubby certainly stood out to me too. No, Tubby, you haven't done your part.

That said the AD has not done his part either. It is an absolute joke that a program the size of Minnesota does not have a practice facility now, much less not be able to break ground on the project. The AD firing Tubby is like a Donald Sterling firing Clippers coaches without giving them the resources to succeed. Also, as soon as the extension was pulled, Barreiro would have a column on why Joel shouldn't be allowed anywhere near another coaching search for football or basketball (and he'd be right about that). We absolutely have to keep Tubby in place until a new A.D. is in charge.

Edit: Obviously, I know that pulling an extension is not the same as firing the coach, but I believe the result would be the same. Tubby would simply take the next available open job at a high major on the East Coast.

 

[GoFerit]

“Done our part” could mean

1. The past 4 seasons instead of the last season only.
2. The change in revenue and profit before and after Tubby since the talk includes the business side of it.

So, how well has Tubby done his part? Perhaps not so badly business-wise. Definitely not as well as I expected as far as basketball is concerned. But, not as badly as Barreiro tries to suggest while interpreting the quote in the worst way by limiting it to the last season finish and one recruit.

Would I think Barreiro is either smart or fair?

 

[GoFerit]

Many sports journalists have brought their field to the level of entertainment gossip. I hope Barreiro never leaves sports journalism. I would be terribly disappointed if he were to get any position to make a decision involving people's lives or their economic livelihood.

 

[JackiO]

Whenever a journalist makes a comment that isn't Tubby is the greatest thing since sliced bread, he's automatically one of the worst sports writers on earth. That my friends takes intelligence.

 

[jamalo]

Why is it a given that a East Coast high major would want him? Possibly a small window at this point, but that window is closed if he has another mediocre (or worse) season next year

 

[howeda7]

Barriero's statement might have some credibility if he ever had anything positive to say about Gopher Athletics. When every song is the same note, it sounds like crap.

 

[tjgesquire]

This is basically a copy of MV's article on FringeBowlTeam, I encourage y'all to check it out.
No matter what way you put it, Tubby has not done his part.

 

[GoFerit]

No matter what way you put it, Tubby has not done his part.

Whether or not Tubby has done it is a matter of opinion.

What Barreiro is doing here is a bad form of propaganda in ad hominem nature. He is deliberately reducing Tubby’s body of work to the small part of it in order to shape the perceptions of the readers and facilitate a personal attack. Barreiro could have worked up the issue fairly and intelligently to reach his own conclusion of “not done it.” But, he has chosen to go with a method of pseudo journalism to manipulate and incite. His methodology is a disgrace to the noble profession of journalism.

 

[GoFerit]

BTW, I am of the opinion that it is good for us not to get the contract extension done at this point because there is too much uncertainty right now, which is why I praised Shamu expressing against the extension (though I differ in detail to reach the same conclusion).

If Tubby signs and does not deliver next season either in performance or in recruiting, there will be too much heat for Maturi and/or Tubby to bear. A change of direction may be necessary. In that case, the contract extension will prove to be too expensive to accommodate the change.

If Tubby does not sign yet delivers, we will have to deal with more demands from Tubby in terms of compensation and commitment. That is relatively small a price to pay.

The worst case scenario is that Tubby gets vindictive for not getting what he wants right now and walks after he delivers. I don’t think Tubby is such a small man.

Overall, the contract extension is very risky for us. So, delaying the contract extension for another year may be the best option for us.

 

[TC-Monkey]

Barriero's statement might have some credibility if he ever had anything positive to say about Gopher Athletics. When every song is the same note, it sounds like crap.

I agree. Barriero is about baiting his audience by belittling the U of MN sports' programs. I have yet to hear him offer much, if any, constructive ideas on how to improve the Gopher program. I don't mind it so much when the criticism is directed at the AD office or the coaches, but i have a big issue with the way he treats and belittles the players - college age kids who are amateur athletes.

 

[Weisbrod]

I agree. Barriero is about baiting his audience by belittling the U of MN sports' programs. I have yet to hear him offer much, if any, constructive ideas on how to improve the Gopher program. I don't mind it so much when the criticism is directed at the AD office or the coaches, but i have a big issue with the way he treats and belittles the players - college age kids who are amateur athletes.

There is no need to protect or feel sorry for high level Division I athletes playing in a very large media market. Criticism comes with the territory.

 

[Monty519]

I'm not gonna let a bad month of basketball completely alter my thoughts on the job Tubby has done so far here. I think he's done a decent job, not great, but considering circumstances of which many he couldn't control, I thought he's held it down pretty well until the last month of the year. I'm not sure why we should pull a contract extension, I just don't see, given Tubby's history, that he's gonna flop so bad that we fire him, I just don't.

Tubby did say something interesting during a snippet of a Joe Schmit interview that's gonna air on Sunday Sports Wrap. Joe asked him if he was too hard on his players and that contributed to the slide. Tubby's response was he probably not tough enough, going into zone, not attacking as much, etc. and he feels it may have hurt his players confidence because maybe he was showing them he didn't have confidence in them by doing those things.

I thought that was interesting, cause I thought the very thing in the midst of that terrible month. When he backed off cause of the loss of players, the players reacted accordingly, losing any aggressiveness they had on both ends of the floor, and I think it cost us big time. I'll be interested in seeing how he learned from that slide, because I think he did take away some things from it that he's gonna use going forward.

 

[howeda7]

BTW, I am of the opinion that it is good for us not to get the contract extension done at this point because there is too much uncertainty right now, which is why I praised Shamu expressing against the extension (though I differ in detail to reach the same conclusion).

If Tubby signs and does not deliver next season either in performance or in recruiting, there will be too much heat for Maturi and/or Tubby to bear. A change of direction may be necessary. In that case, the contract extension will prove to be too expensive to accommodate the change.

If Tubby does not sign yet delivers, we will have to deal with more demands from Tubby in terms of compensation and commitment. That is relatively small a price to pay.

The worst case scenario is that Tubby gets vindictive for not getting what he wants right now and walks after he delivers. I don’t think Tubby is such a small man.

Overall, the contract extension is very risky for us. So, delaying the contract extension for another year may be the best option for us.

Not when you promised it in April 2010 and contended that the frame-work was done and 'with the lawyers' in May 2010. Any other school would have had this whole thing done last April. Not delivering on a contract extension you promised for two years isn't prudent, it's pathetic.

 

[BarnBurner]

"TUBBY SMITH -- Imagine the relief of Gophers basketball fans when they picked up today's Star Tribune and discovered, finally, the Gophers head coach taking full, major, partial, any, OK, no responsibility for the team's failed 2010-11 campaign. A month after finishing 1-10, not making the NIT and somehow wrestling Andre Ingram from Duquesne, Green Bay Milwaukee, North Dakota, South Dakota, Western Illinois, Eastern Illinois and Illinois State, Tubby declares: "I'd like to see something done to help basketball. We've done our part."

If the Gophs had an AD with any cojones, he'd pull the contract extension off the table. Now."

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He makes a fair point. I just squirmed when I saw this quote today.

"I'm never going to get caught like this again without a point guard," Smith said during his last radio show of the season in March.

WHY DID YOU RECRUIT MAVERICK IF YOU CAN'T TRUST HIM TO PLAY HIS NATURAL POSITION?!?!?!?! You can say he's a freshman, but he should still be able to be serviceable in a time of crisis. He's already 20 years old for christ's sake. Why is he still even on the team if he can't play? Why did he run off Cobbs? Ughh. What a blunder.

And now Ingram...another athlete who has a limited offensive game, JUST WHAT WE NEED.

Hey Tubby - talk like this is not representative of great leaders.

Transfers, players in the police blotter, mediocre at best results after 4 years.

Perhaps Tubby defines "my part" in these terms.

 

[GoFerit]

I'm not gonna let a bad month of basketball completely alter my thoughts on the job Tubby has done so far here. I think he's done a decent job, not great, but considering circumstances of which many he couldn't control, I thought he's held it down pretty well until the last month of the year. I'm not sure why we should pull a contract extension, I just don't see, given Tubby's history, that he's gonna flop so bad that we fire him, I just don't.

I have confidence in Tubby’s coaching faculty. Given enough time, Tubby will be able to build us back. However, I am not sure we can say the same as far as short term result is concerned. Anything can happen in the short run as proven in the last season although the truth is bound to emerge in the long run (which is why -- I agree with you -- we emphasize the body of work instead of a snippet of it).

If Tubby next year submits a less than inspiring season AND doesn’t provide enough in recruiting for a better future, we will have a big time turmoil here. Just look at what the journalists and some fans are doing based on the one part of the last season. It also means that there may not be enough talent to put us back in any time soon if that happens while the turmoil will likely curtail Tubby’s effectiveness as a recruiter and coach. Perception, true or not, can be reality.

 

[GoFerit]

Not when you promised it in April 2010 and contended that the frame-work was done and 'with the lawyers' in May 2010. Any other school would have had this whole thing done last April. Not delivering on a contract extension you promised for two years isn't prudent, it's pathetic.

I think it is more prudent to survey the possibilities and consequences of the extension given the situation than delivering it in a timely manner.

 

[howeda7]

I think it is more prudent to survey the possibilities and consequences of the extension given the situation than delivering it in a timely manner.

Tubby is nowhere close to getting fired. Do you honestly think there's anything short of a scandal that will get him fired by the end of next season? It's not going to happen. There's nothing to be prudent about.

We have a power coach. He's 4 years into his 7-year deal. It needs to be extended back out to it's orginal length. A year ago Maturi said it would happen. And he's failed to get it done. For all we know, they've already gone far enough down the road that they may owe him the additional years even though the contract isn't 'done.' Even Maturi has pleaded ignorance on this.

 

[Mulligan]

Tubby is nowhere close to getting fired. Do you honestly think there's anything short of a scandal that will get him fired by the end of next season? It's not going to happen. There's nothing to be prudent about.

We have a power coach. He's 4 years into his 7-year deal. It needs to be extended back out to it's orginal length. A year ago Maturi said it would happen. And he's failed to get it done. For all we know, they've already gone far enough down the road that they may owe him the additional years even though the contract isn't 'done.' Even Maturi has pleaded ignorance on this.

Other than your total dislike of Maturi, how do you know this is all on him? Traditionally, there are two sides and then they come to an agreement with both compromising on their demands. It's called "negotiating." You have no frickin' idea of what the hangup is. Just because Tubby is a power coach, doesn't mean you roll over and give him everything he demands. As a matter of fact, those demands might be different now than they were a year ago. And, though I'm a strong believer in him, I've got to admit Tubby's position isn't as strong as it was a year ago. All of that can be in play; it's not automatically Joel's fault because he's responding to someone's email.

 

[GoFerit]

Tubby is nowhere close to getting fired. Do you honestly think there's anything short of a scandal that will get him fired by the end of next season? It's not going to happen. There's nothing to be prudent about.

We have a power coach. He's 4 years into his 7-year deal. It needs to be extended back out to it's orginal length. A year ago Maturi said it would happen. And he's failed to get it done. For all we know, they've already gone far enough down the road that they may owe him the additional years even though the contract isn't 'done.' Even Maturi has pleaded ignorance on this.

If next season is a disaster both in performance and in recruiting, firing Tubby should be considered. Will he be fired right away? Honestly, I do not know.

My point, however, is that we will have an opportunity to extend the contract or not after next season when we have a better vision of what is to come. So, we do not have to assume the extra risk right now when things are not so clear.

Tubby being a power coach is only meaningful if 1) he is successful on the court or 2) he still gets the business going for the U. Depending on the outcome of next season, the label of power coach may not mean anything to us and the U.

 

[balds]

Go backwards?

In my opinion, Tubby did a pretty good job his first three years here. This year was supposed to be the year in both figurative and actual terms and we all know what happened. Not arguing that Tubby deserves no blame, but a lot of things went against him. How good would we have been if Mbakwe was eligible last year and Joseph and Nolen were available this year?

The grass isn't always greener. Look at the difficulty other similar schools (Mizzou, Arkansas, NC State, Miami, etc.) have had getting coaches.

Outside of a three week span, I think Tubby has proven to be a pretty good coach here. As a recruiter I think he as done a good job, just have to figure out what's up with all the transfers and develop players better, which I think he will.

If you look at his recruiting, he has gone from recruiting blue chips (Joseph, Sampson, Williams, White) to recruiting lesser "star" guys that I think he feels are more coachable (Hollins (s), Eliason, Coleman, etc. We will see how it works out because I don't believe he is going anywhere.

 

[howeda7]

Other than your total dislike of Maturi, how do you know this is all on him? Traditionally, there are two sides and then they come to an agreement with both compromising on their demands. It's called "negotiating." You have no frickin' idea of what the hangup is. Just because Tubby is a power coach, doesn't mean you roll over and give him everything he demands. As a matter of fact, those demands might be different now than they were a year ago. And, though I'm a strong believer in him, I've got to admit Tubby's position isn't as strong as it was a year ago. All of that can be in play; it's not automatically Joel's fault because he's responding to someone's email.

It's true that none of us know what the issues are specifically. All we can go by is what has been said. That both Maturi and Bruinicks have said multiple times that Tubby will get an extension and they are working on it. Maturi has said multiple times that it is with 'with the lawyers.' And that at almost every other school, said extension would have been done a year ago. Sure Tubby is probably negotiating for certain things. So does every coach who signs an extension. It still doesn't take other schools months and years to get it done.

Certainly there may be people above Joel adding to the hold up. I recognize that the problems in the Athletic Department don't end with him. But getting this done is ultimately Maturi's job and the fact that it's taken this long is a joke.

 

[howeda7]

If next season is a disaster both in performance and in recruiting, firing Tubby should be considered. Will he be fired right away? Honestly, I do not know.

My point, however, is that we will have an opportunity to extend the contract or not after next season when we have a better vision of what is to come. So, we do not have to assume the extra risk right now when things are not so clear.

Tubby being a power coach is only meaningful if 1) he is successful on the court or 2) he still gets the business going for the U. Depending on the outcome of next season, the label of power coach may not mean anything to us and the U.

We've already kicked the can down the road an entire year on this. We can't afford to do it again. Schools don't generally let coaches contracts get under 4 years remaining in any case, and certainly not a coach of Tubby's caliber. It accomplishes nothing to kick the can further except to make the U look inept, and fuel 'Tubby to ACC School X' rumors.

After all, how should that look to an outsider? We promise him a practice facility and 4 years later, nothing. We promise him a simple straight-forward contract extension and 2 years later, we don't have it done? Why wouldn't Tubby bolt such ineptitude for the much 'better' job at NC State?

 

[GoFerit]

We've already kicked the can down the road an entire year on this. We can't afford to do it again. Schools don't generally let coaches contracts get under 4 years remaining in any case, and certainly not a coach of Tubby's caliber. It accomplishes nothing to kick the can further except to make the U look inept, and fuel 'Tubby to ACC School X' rumors.

After all, how should that look to an outsider? We promise him a practice facility and 4 years later, nothing. We promise him a simple straight-forward contract extension and 2 years later, we don't have it done? Why wouldn't Tubby bolt such ineptitude for the much 'better' job at NC State?

I understand your concern. We can talk about Tubby and his contract in general terms when things are normal and predictable. Now, however, may not be the time for such as the degree of uncertainty is rather high IMO.

Tubby is a big man. He understands the nature of the beast. As they climb higher on the ladder, people less likely are to take personally the nature of the business. If they had, they would not have made it that far. They learn to make the best possible decision given the circumstances and information. If Tubby gives us a competitive team or a great class next season, he will ask for what’s best for him at that moment, and we will give it to him in order to retain his service.

BTW, is looking inept/rumor mill that important?

 

[GoFerit]

In my opinion, Tubby did a pretty good job his first three years here. This year was supposed to be the year in both figurative and actual terms and we all know what happened. Not arguing that Tubby deserves no blame, but a lot of things went against him. How good would we have been if Mbakwe was eligible last year and Joseph and Nolen were available this year?

The grass isn't always greener. Look at the difficulty other similar schools (Mizzou, Arkansas, NC State, Miami, etc.) have had getting coaches.

Outside of a three week span, I think Tubby has proven to be a pretty good coach here. As a recruiter I think he as done a good job, just have to figure out what's up with all the transfers and develop players better, which I think he will.

If you look at his recruiting, he has gone from recruiting blue chips (Joseph, Sampson, Williams, White) to recruiting lesser "star" guys that I think he feels are more coachable (Hollins (s), Eliason, Coleman, etc. We will see how it works out because I don't believe he is going anywhere.

Delaying contract extension for another year does not necessarily mean firing Tubby. Neither am I advocating firing Tubby based on his performance over the last four seasons. It is really about contingency and the best option available for us at this very moment. It is about timing. It is about making a decision in our best interest (which may not equate with Tubby's).

Next season, Tubby needs to produce a competitive team or a good recruiting class in order to keep the program moving forward. If neither happens, the team may not have enough to build upon and be competitive enough in the short run. Then, controversies, dissensions, apathy and all the fun stuff will start plaguing the program at least in the short run.

With that possibility in mind, the most rational thing to do at this very moment IMO may be just wait and see. After next season, we will have more information that should help us to make a better decision regarding Tubby’s tenure with us. In other words, right now may not be the best time to take care of the business of contract extension in my opinion.

I have more confidence in Tubby as a coach than most people in the Hole quite possibly including some who are arguing for getting the extension done as quickly as possible. But, confidence alone does not override the reality and therefore should not prevent us from thinking about contingency and making a decision/plan accordingly, which is the basis of my argument.

 

[Maximus]

The "we've done our part" quote from Tubby certainly stood out to me too. No, Tubby, you haven't done your part.

That said the AD has not done his part either. It is an absolute joke that a program the size of Minnesota does not have a practice facility now, much less not be able to break ground on the project. The AD firing Tubby is like a Donald Sterling firing Clippers coaches without giving them the resources to succeed. Also, as soon as the extension was pulled, Barreiro would have a column on why Joel shouldn't be allowed anywhere near another coaching search for football or basketball (and he'd be right about that). We absolutely have to keep Tubby in place until a new A.D. is in charge.

Edit: Obviously, I know that pulling an extension is not the same as firing the coach, but I believe the result would be the same. Tubby would simply take the next available open job at a high major on the East Coast.

Ridiculous. Ohio State is trying to raise 20-plus million for BB facilities upgrade. Now in year four, they haven't even cracked 10 million.

How bg was the check you cut for it?

 

[howeda7]

I understand your concern. We can talk about Tubby and his contract in general terms when things are normal and predictable. Now, however, may not be the time for such as the degree of uncertainty is rather high IMO.

Tubby is a big man. He understands the nature of the beast. As they climb higher on the ladder, people less likely are to take personally the nature of the business. If they had, they would not have made it that far. They learn to make the best possible decision given the circumstances and information. If Tubby gives us a competitive team or a great class next season, he will ask for what’s best for him at that moment, and we will give it to him in order to retain his service.

BTW, is looking inept/rumor mill that important?

What exactly is the benefit of pulling the extension? The only plausible one is that it might save some $$ on the very remote chance Tubby is fired. First, that's almost certainly not going to happen. And second, if by some chance he is fired, they are probably too far down the road on this to simply pay him the two years left on his original deal. It's been 'with lawyers' since last May. Billy Gillespie never had a fully signed contract at Kentucky, they still had to pay him.

Anyway, saving $$ in the unlikely event Tubby is fired is not worth the negatives of probably driving Tubby away and making the U and Maturi look even more inept then they already do. Does that matter? Yes. If you were a young coach and you could work for the bumbling AD that drove Tubby Smith or another equal school with a competent AD, wouldn't it factor in?

 

[GoFerit]

What exactly is the benefit of pulling the extension? The only plausible one is that it might save some $$ on the very remote chance Tubby is fired. First, that's almost certainly not going to happen. And second, if by some chance he is fired, they are probably too far down the road on this to simply pay him the two years left on his original deal. It's been 'with lawyers' since last May. Billy Gillespie never had a fully signed contract at Kentucky, they still had to pay him.

First of all, why do you think the contract extension talk has gone on for so long without any results? I am guessing it is primarily because the parties could not agree upon financial terms. The terms Tubby has been pushing for must be far more than Maturi has been willing to accept.

It must be a significant increase in amount comparing to what Tubby is getting right now.

Please, consider the followings. Tubby has been flirting with some schools, which is to establish his market value higher than the current compensation package and/or the new one Maturi has proposed for extension (and it is to demonstrate a credible threat of leaving and therefore get an upper-hand at negotiation). The financial terms proposed by some other schools have been substantially more than what Tubby is getting. It may be a hint about the amount proposed to us by Tubby with some “discount” probably.

Now, for the sake of argument, suppose that we go 6-12 or 7-11 next season with little evidence of greatness in the players left on the roster sans TM and Sampson. Suppose further that our 2012 class consists of one marginal top 100 prospect and two projects (assuming that we will have 2-4 schollies).

Then, two possibilities: a contract extension or a change in direction for the program.

If a contract extension is given around that time, we will no longer see the amount we have heard in the rumors about Tubby being courted by another school since his market value will have sharply decreased by then. The amount we save is something one should consider seriously as money is one huge factor to keep program moving forward.

A change in direction can come in two forms: Tubby vacating voluntarily or Tubby getting fired.

It is reasonaable to assume that either 1) Tubby may not get a new contract with us after the current one expires or 2) it is unlikely that the new contract is going to be something Tubby may be happy with. If offered with something better (or something decent) by another school before his current contract with us expires, Tubby may walk voluntarily without costing us an additional penny. (If we give him a contract extension with the financial terms Tubby wants, this may not happen since the offer he gets from another school may not be better -- probably far worse -- than what he will get from us.)

If not, firing Tubby should be seriously considered if things go down rapidly depending on availability of a good candidate. It doesn’t have to be right after the 2011-2012 season. It can be done during/after the 2012-2013 season.

Anyway, saving $$ in the unlikely event Tubby is fired is not worth the negatives of probably driving Tubby away and making the U and Maturi look even more inept then they already do. Does that matter? Yes. If you were a young coach and you could work for the bumbling AD that drove Tubby Smith or another equal school with a competent AD, wouldn't it factor in?

I agree that such is a possibility. However, IMO big boys know what is at stake and the nature of the business. New candidates will consider the details of the Tubby situation and the context of it. This is no different from any other business. No reason for them to think that we are unfair because the underlying premise of the contract extension situation is basically that you get a raise when you decisively prove your worth. Nothing really unusual about that. Therefore, it probably is unlikely that the Tubby situation with respect to contract extension can backfire.