Bad college football rule/call

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station19 said:
LSU td called back because of taunting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_TGuoLdmk
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I hate this rule. Too much subjectivity. I thought Mark May was being an idiot (weird I know) when he tried to claim that it wasn't a taunt. The punter was totally taunting those 2 UF players. But he is a punter making a kick ass play and on a 1-10 taunt scale that rates as about a 2. Stupid, stupid rule.
 



Let's hear some officials' view on the rule.

Paging "Fire Dave Lee" & "Gopher Rock"
 


Between Roger Goodell and whoever runs the NCAA, football in this country has been mostly ruined because you just might hurt someone's feelings.............. jebus cripes.

Fine, you want a rule against 'pre-celebration' (by a punter on a fake), then their should be a rule against d-bag HCs calling for a 2 pt conversion late in the game when you're up by a ton as well..
 

GoAUpher said:
I hate this rule. Too much subjectivity. I thought Mark May was being an idiot (weird I know) when he tried to claim that it wasn't a taunt. The punter was totally taunting those 2 UF players. But he is a punter making a kick ass play and on a 1-10 taunt scale that rates as about a 2. Stupid, stupid rule.
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Don't disagree with it being a stupid rule. But it was also a stupid taunt. Totally unnecessary and dumb.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Don't disagree with it being a stupid rule. But it was also a stupid taunt. Totally unnecessary and dumb.
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Completely and without a doubt. But how many times in his life is that punter going to have the opportunity to make a play like that? I'm not saying don't penalize the stupidity. I'm saying don't take points off the board for an awesome play using a rule that is so subjective. That's my opinion. There is know way anyone is "right" about this one. It just feels too draconian to me to make it possible to take points off the board using a subjective penalty call that is more prone to biases about what constitutes overcelebration and taunting.

Though to be fair, given the fact that I do believe the punter was taunting I should probably acknowledge that my bigger problem is with the rule than with how it was applied in this case. I mean, subjectively I'd agree that the kid was taunting after all. :) Dumb rule, but it is on the books and the refs really prob weren't out of line to use it. If the punter had just waited until crossing the goal line to make that move it should have been fine.
 

The punter's taunt wasn't even that bad. I think the old rule of being able to flag someone for excessive celebration was good enough. This punter put his arms out and mildly celebrated while he just accomplished what was the highlight of his athletic life (presumably).

I didn't think it was malacious or even tacky.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
The punter's taunt wasn't even that bad. I think the old rule of being able to flag someone for excessive celebration was good enough. This punter put his arms out and mildly celebrated while he just accomplished what was the highlight of his athletic life (presumably).

I didn't think it was malacious or even tacky.
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Well, the reply angle I saw showed the punter turn, see the defenders, then put out the arms (which I interp'd to be "Can't Catch Me"). And that's why I took it to be a taunt (albeit a mild one IMO) and why I hate the rule. You have to assume to know what the punter was thinking for it to be a taunt (versus just a celebration) and points shouldn't come off the board if a ref has to start assessing intent of an action. I mean, PI is subjective enough sometimes...why make it worse on the stripes? :)
 

I don't like the rule, but the league has been clear and consistent that they will call that, so players need to be smart enough to not commit that penalty.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I don't like the rule, but the league has been clear and consistent that they will call that, so players need to be smart enough to not commit that penalty.
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Anyone watching the Mich/Mich St game.

Mich St leading 21-14, Mich with the ball, 4:30 remaining in game.
Pass intercepted by Mich St and returned for TD.
Before crossing goal line(5 yd line) the Mich St DB holds out the ball in front of Mich player.(obvious taunt), no call. TD should have been disallowed.

If you are going to have a rule that takes points off the board you better damn well be consistent.

Final: Mich St 28 Mich 14
 

I didn't see the MSU/Mich game, so I can't speculate with that one.. But that punter? He BARELY made a 'move' with his arms and ball. I didn't even NOTICE it prior to the replay, and I was looking for it.

I don't mind the rule. But there HAS to be more of a big and bold line to draw from instead of it simply being something that is subjective. That's what I don't like about it.

And IMO, that punter's 'taunt' wasn't a taunt, thus eliminating the called back TD.
 



I saw someone in the PSU game get a 15 yard penalty for tossing the ball in the air. End of South Carolina and Miss St., Gamecock DB picks off pass and tosses ball in air, no penalty. Lack of consistency.
 

He taunted, it's in the rule book, it was enforced properly. Tough beans. Act like an adult and have some self control.
 

Ski U Master said:
He taunted, it's in the rule book, it was enforced properly. Tough beans. Act like an adult and have some self control.
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Damn straight! Remove all emotion from this game. That's what I've always hated about the college game vs. the NFL...the genuine emotion.

Watch the link from the OP and tell me you can determine it was a taunt from that angle.

And therein lies the rub; interpretation.
 

Unregistered User said:
Damn straight! Remove all emotion from this game. That's what I've always hated about the college game vs. the NFL...the genuine emotion.

Watch the link from the OP and tell me you can determine it was a taunt from that angle.

And therein lies the rub; interpretation.
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there is plenty of emotion. Being excited about making a big play or score does not have to involve an "in your face" to your opponent or the crowd. Pump a fist or do the uppercut. When showing the ball to the opponent as you stroll in to the end zone is allowed, then guys will be doing all sorts of stupid crap every time they make a tackle. Leave the antics to the NFL.
 

gopherjay said:
there is plenty of emotion. Being excited about making a big play or score does not have to involve an "in your face" to your opponent or the crowd. Pump a fist or do the uppercut. When showing the ball to the opponent as you stroll in to the end zone is allowed, then guys will be doing all sorts of stupid crap every time they make a tackle. Leave the antics to the NFL.
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+19
 

station19 said:
Anyone watching the Mich/Mich St game.

Mich St leading 21-14, Mich with the ball, 4:30 remaining in game.
Pass intercepted by Mich St and returned for TD.
Before crossing goal line(5 yd line) the Mich St DB holds out the ball in front of Mich player.(obvious taunt), no call. TD should have been disallowed.

If you are going to have a rule that takes points off the board you better damn well be consistent.

Final: Mich St 28 Mich 14
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Yep, I saw that as well. Super obvious and it was in a close game. I agree that you need to be consistent if you're taking touchdowns away. I hate the rule. Penalize them on the kickoff if you have to.
 

I'm going to make one of my famous predictions. Famous because my predictions are usually wrong.

The rule will be changed by next year.
 

"He taunted me!!! I am ruined for life!!!"
 




Taunting has been in the rule books for many decades. It's not a rule put in by some overly sensitive people in recent years. I remember reading a rule book from over 30 years ago, and it had a picture to show an example of taunting. The picture was a player waving the ball at a defender just as he was going in to score.

It is the rule where they take back the touchdown that is the problem. The example in the Michigan - Michigan State game was literally a textbook case of taunting. They might have called the penalty in the old rules which didn't involve taking away the TD. But when the game is on the line, the refs are going to be hesitant, and that subjectivity is the real problem.
 

RodentRampage said:
Taunting has been in the rule books for many decades. It's not a rule put in by some overly sensitive people in recent years. I remember reading a rule book from over 30 years ago, and it had a picture to show an example of taunting. The picture was a player waving the ball at a defender just as he was going in to score.

It is the rule where they take back the touchdown that is the problem. The example in the Michigan - Michigan State game was literally a textbook case of taunting. They might have called the penalty in the old rules which didn't involve taking away the TD. But when the game is on the line, the refs are going to be hesitant, and that subjectivity is the real problem.
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Ref's are not comfortable with this rule as is. It will evolve over time. The reason it was put in is because the taunting rule was not good enough. Individuals were hurting teams by selfish acts. These rules are put in by coaches and AD's, not referees.

For example there is a clip of two players on the same team saluting each other after a sack. The interpretation put out was to flag this for 15 yards. Last week I saw this done 2-3 times in games and no flags were thrown.

I did not see the MSU/Mich play, but the LSU call was text book and the easier call to make. The punter physically turned and taughted players on the other team. If the MSU player held the ball out, but did not turn and stare down someone, I could see how it wasn't called.
 

I realize that refs don't make the rules. But they are the ones who decide to call the penalty or not. This rule change puts too much game changing power in the hands of the refs. Imagine it is the last play of the national championship game, and there is a hail mary for the win. But one of the players taunted. Are the refs going to dare call it?
 


RodentRampage said:
I realize that refs don't make the rules. But they are the ones who decide to call the penalty or not. This rule change puts too much game changing power in the hands of the refs. Imagine it is the last play of the national championship game, and there is a hail mary for the win. But one of the players taunted. Are the refs going to dare call it?
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I agree it is a tough rule, however there is a clear difference between taunting and spontaneous excitement.
 

I disagree, there the line between taunting and spontaneous excitment is pretty blurry.
 

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