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Shows now impressive Tubby's improvement from Monsoon is. Creanand Beilien have not come close to it.
 

Gopher in Texas said:
Shows now impressive Tubby's improvement from Monsoon is. Creanand Beilien have not come close to it.
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Absolutely. This is why I get upset when some folks round here say that Tubby has been 'given a pass'. Our turnaround was more impressive than folks give him credit for.

I think this article is a little unfair to McCaffery though, since he hasn't even finished a full season in the Big Ten yet.
 




Is the turnaround really "impressive". The best Big 10 finish under Tubby has been 6th, which even Monson was able to do 3 times in his last 5 full seasons. They both have the same number of NCAA Tourney wins, zero. Don't get me wrong, personally I'm thrilled he came here and brought instant credibility to the program. However, I term the improvement as "modest" rather than impressive. Tubby has yet to lead the Gophers to an above .500 conf record.
 

"Is the turnaround really "impressive". The best Big 10 finish under Tubby has been 6th, which even Monson was able to do 3 times in his last 5 full seasons. They both have the same number of NCAA Tourney wins, zero. Don't get me wrong, personally I'm thrilled he came here and brought instant credibility to the program. However, I term the improvement as "modest" rather than impressive. Tubby has yet to lead the Gophers to an above .500 conf record."

Shortsighted comment. What is soon to be our fourth 20+ win season in a row and our first conference tourney title game appearance is definitely beyond modest improvement. not even clem was able to string together 4 20+ win seasons in a row. while our placing in the conference hasn't been where we would like it yet, we are showing steady improvement and have demonstrated more overall consistency than any time in the last 25 years. Personally, I deem that an impressive turn around and believe we are on a trajectory to continue improving. We will be fighting for a top 4 finish this year and in upcoming years under tubby. GO Gophs!
 

Ope3 said:
Is the turnaround really "impressive". The best Big 10 finish under Tubby has been 6th, which even Monson was able to do 3 times in his last 5 full seasons. They both have the same number of NCAA Tourney wins, zero. Don't get me wrong, personally I'm thrilled he came here and brought instant credibility to the program. However, I term the improvement as "modest" rather than impressive. Tubby has yet to lead the Gophers to an above .500 conf record.
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Relative to Beilein and Crean, I think it is impressive. Tubby has also gotten us into the Tourney twice in 3 years, and we've racked up a number of wins over ranked teams, beat Wisconsin 3 times in a row, and made us a team that no one can look past. If Tubby is here as long as Monson was, their side-by-side records won't even compare.
 

When comparing Haskins, Smith, and Munson it's important to look at the quality of the Big Ten also. I think what Tubby has done is impressive because of his ability to be a contender in the Big Ten against anyone. Yes it has not resulted in a Big Ten championship but think about where this program was before he got here, rock bottom. Plus look at last years Big Ten Tourney run, that was the most impressive play the Gophers have put together in a long time, they could've beaten anyone in the Big Ten. It's sad that people think that we are giving Tubby a pass since he is the best thing to happen to Gopher sports in a long time and our AD better figure that out and get him locked down for years.
 



Even FOT will tell you that the program's progress is behind compared to where a Smith-led program should be in Year 4. When they hired Tubby, the idea was eventual conference title contention, and we're not there yet. That needs to be the expectation, or the coach's salary is set too high.

After four years at Tulsa, he'd gotten them to two Sweet 16's. He got them to the Sweet 16 his first year at Georgia. This is a bottom line business, and we're paying a fat salary for hopefully a fat bottom line.
 

SoGo4it said:
It's sad that people think that we are giving Tubby a pass since he is the best thing to happen to Gopher sports in a long time and our AD better figure that out and get him locked down for years.
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:clap::clap::clap:

Couldn't have put it better myself.
 

hendo59 said:
"Is the turnaround really "impressive". The best Big 10 finish under Tubby has been 6th, which even Monson was able to do 3 times in his last 5 full seasons. They both have the same number of NCAA Tourney wins, zero. Don't get me wrong, personally I'm thrilled he came here and brought instant credibility to the program. However, I term the improvement as "modest" rather than impressive. Tubby has yet to lead the Gophers to an above .500 conf record."

Shortsighted comment. What is soon to be our fourth 20+ win season in a row and our first conference tourney title game appearance is definitely beyond modest improvement. not even clem was able to string together 4 20+ win seasons in a row. while our placing in the conference hasn't been where we would like it yet, we are showing steady improvement and have demonstrated more overall consistency than any time in the last 25 years. Personally, I deem that an impressive turn around and believe we are on a trajectory to continue improving. We will be fighting for a top 4 finish this year and in upcoming years under tubby. GO Gophs!
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Yes, the run to the Big 10 title was a great feather in Tubby's cap, it offset what was otherwise a pretty underachieving season. The other thing I have to credit Tubby with is some solid neutral court wins, Louisville, Butler, NC & W Va. As far as the 20 win seasons, I don't think those are any great shakes considering that teams are eligible for exempt Tourney every year now (unlike under the Monson era).

If the Top 4 finish becomes a reality this year (as Monson did in 2005), I'll reassess.
 

Keep in mind that Tubby is a coach that builds around 4 year players. He still hasn't had a 4 year player that he recruited yet.
He lost what was thought to be his best recruit (white), he had what was thought to be a top 3 recruit so far since he came here (Mbakwe) suspended an entire season, he now has lost his best guard recruit (Joseph), his starting PG has now missed about a full season over the past 2. The Joseph thing maybe partially Tubby's fault, but the other things are really unavoidable on Tubby's part.

This is all happening and he is still winning 20 and making NCAA tournaments. If Nolen doesn't get hurt this team has a great shot to finish 2nd in the Big Ten. And all of this ahead of schedule in a Big Ten that is much tougher from 09-11 than the Big Ten was from 06-08.

At the same time the other fairly new coaches in the league have struggled.
Indiana coach has not been able to build at all.
An Iowa coach (licklighter) regresses Big Time. The new Iowa coach is on pace to finish worse in conference play than Lick did his last year.
Michigan coach made a tourney with Tommy A's players and then the team has regressed.
The top 5 of the Big Ten is as deep as it has been in at least 10 years.
 




Rosemountian said:
Keep in mind that Tubby is a coach that builds around 4 year players. He still hasn't had a 4 year player that he recruited yet.
He lost what was thought to be his best recruit (white), he had what was thought to be a top 3 recruit so far since he came here (Mbakwe) suspended an entire season, he now has lost his best guard recruit (Joseph), his starting PG has now missed about a full season over the past 2. The Joseph thing maybe partially Tubby's fault, but the other things are really unavoidable on Tubby's part.

This is all happening and he is still winning 20 and making NCAA tournaments. If Nolen doesn't get hurt this team has a great shot to finish 2nd in the Big Ten. And all of this ahead of schedule in a Big Ten that is much tougher from 09-11 than the Big Ten was from 06-08.

At the same time the other fairly new coaches in the league have struggled.
Indiana coach has not been able to build at all.
An Iowa coach (licklighter) regresses Big Time. The new Iowa coach is on pace to finish worse in conference play than Lick did his last year.
Michigan coach made a tourney with Tommy A's players and then the team has regressed.
The top 5 of the Big Ten is as deep as it has been in at least 10 years.
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+1 Agree

People complain about the high salary (they are high), but Tubby's pay is comparable to Crean and Beilein.

http://hoosierhoopla.blogspot.com/2010/07/do-big-ten-coaches-make-too-much.html

Both Indiana and Michigan have deeper recruiting pools. Tubby has done a good job. As the article implies, it is very difficult to challenge the top of the Big Ten. This turnaround is tougher than Tulsa or Kentucky.

Statistics can be twisted to support any point of view. I am going with what my eyes see and what my heart believes. The Gophers are improving and it is due in large part to Tubby Smith.
 

Statistics can be twisted to support any point of view. I am going with what my eyes see and what my heart believes. The Gophers are improving and it is due in large part to Tubby Smith.
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I agree 100%.

I remember going to games versus the upper tier of Big Ten teams in the later Monson years and knowing we had absolutely no chance to win. And we never did.

Four short years later we have a chance to win every single game we play. That's due to Tubby Smith and NOBODY else.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Even FOT will tell you that the program's progress is behind compared to where a Smith-led program should be in Year 4. When they hired Tubby, the idea was eventual conference title contention, and we're not there yet. That needs to be the expectation, or the coach's salary is set too high.

After four years at Tulsa, he'd gotten them to two Sweet 16's. He got them to the Sweet 16 his first year at Georgia. This is a bottom line business, and we're paying a fat salary for hopefully a fat bottom line.
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Yep. Tulsa had 23 W and 24 W in Years 3 and 4 when Tubby coached there. 24 W in his 2nd year at Georgia - STILL the school record for most W in a season. And 3 Sweet 16 (+) in his first 4 years at Kentucky.

21 W (average) so far at Minnesota. No B10 or B10T tourney titles. No postseason (NIT or NCAA) W yet.

25 W. Conference or tourney title(s). And W's in postseason games. Minimum expectations.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Yep. Tulsa had 23 W and 24 W in Years 3 and 4 when Tubby coached there. 24 W in his 2nd year at Georgia - STILL the school record for most W in a season. And 3 Sweet 16 (+) in his first 4 years at Kentucky.

21 W (average) so far at Minnesota. No B10 or B10T tourney titles. No postseason (NIT or NCAA) W yet.

25 W. Conference or tourney title(s). And W's in postseason games. Minimum expectations.
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The difference being the Gophers play in a much tougher conference than Tulsa.
The Gophers were in no where near the position that Kentucky was when he took over.
Even Georgia was in better shape when Tubby took over there compared to where Minnesota was when Tubby took over.

You can go ahead and have those expectations, but what are you going to do when he fails to meet them? Say he should be fired? Cause that is insane.
 

Rosemountian said:
The difference being the Gophers play in a much tougher conference than Tulsa.
The Gophers were in no where near the position that Kentucky was when he took over.
Even Georgia was in better shape when Tubby took over there compared to where Minnesota was when Tubby took over.

You can go ahead and have those expectations, but what are you going to do when he fails to meet them? Say he should be fired? Cause that is insane.
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No different than Georgia (SEC). 21 W (Sweet 16) the first year and school record 24 W (with 2 W over SEC champ South Carolina) the second year.

4th year = 25 W. Conference title contenders. And W (some games) in postseason (NCAA).
 

No different than Georgia?
Tubby took over possibly the worst team in the history of the program at MN.
At Georgia he took over an 18 win team. He took over a program that had finished under .500 just twice in the previous 17 years (2 games under .500 in 93-94, 1 game under 88-89. More importantly Georgia had finished with 7+ conference wins in 14/15 seasons prior to Tubby's arrival.....Minnesota had finished with 7+ conference wins in 3/15 seasons prior to Tubby's arrival.


When you are about to go spouting off with no concept of facts or reason, instead cram it up your cramhole and Shut your yap
 

Actually, I think next year this year's lower level B10 teams may have a decent chance to move up to the middle of the pack because several of this year's upper level teams are so senior laden. Illinois, Purdue, and Penn State come to mind immediately as teams that lose key seniors. I believe that MN loses Hoffarber and Nolen, but their big guys return, so Gophers should finish well next year. Additionally, adding a perenniel weaker basketball program in Nebraska should provide some wins for the rest of the conference.
 

I do think Penn State will fall off big time next year. Ed better get his extension now.
 

Tubby took over the worst team in Gopher history? Whenever there's a coaching change, there's usually a problem.

Doc Cooke retired in 1924. After winning 3 national and 4 Big Ten titles he was 16-29 his last 3 years and 8th-9-8 in the Big 10.

His successor Harold Taylor only lasted 3 years at 19-30 and 6-7-9 in the Big 10.

Dave MacMillan retired twice. In '42 he went out on top, relatively speaking, at 15-7 and 7th-3-5 in the Big 10 the last 3 years. The second time (1948) he was 10-10 and had been 5th-4-7 in the Big 10. But his worst teams were in his 1st 3 years after when they went 6-30 in the Big 10 plus 1-11 in Taylor's final year.

Ozzie Cowles had a pretty good run but by '59 was out of gas, 3rd-8-9 in the Big 10, 17-26 overall the last 2 years.

Kundla finished up 5th-9-9 in the Big 10 and 16-32 overall the last 2 years.

Musselman left a different kind of mess. Ditto Dutcher. When Clem came on board the cupboard was as bare as it ever was but it didn't show in Dutcher's record.

It showed more in Clem's initially. Well, 8th in Dutcher's final year, then 9th and 9th under Clem. Then Clem left a different kind of mess.

Under Monson the Gophers were 10-6, 21-11 in 2005. Still 18-30 in the Big 10 in 2004-05-06, 3-13 in 2007.

But the worst? No. 1927-30 was the worst, 7-41 in the Big 10 over 3 years. 2nd worst was Dutcher-Williams' last year and Clem's 1st 2, 11-43. Monson's final years was maybe the 3rd worst.
 

Next time I will say "one of the worst"
It being the 3rd worst team doesn't at all detract from any of the points I made
 

CBS / ESPN

CollegeBBallFan said:
Did Monson have Minnesota playing on CBS or ESPN?
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Yes, by contract ESPN is required to show each team once, plus there were several extra games.

As for CBS here are the ones I can remember:

2001 - @ Michigan
2002 - Illinois
2003 - Wisconsin
2004 - Illinois
2005 - @ Illinois & BTT Semis Illinois
2006 - Michigan State
2007 - Ohio State
 

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