I'll admit, I am a young gopher fan, and the 1996-1997 Gopher season is when I fully started following the team consciously. But honestly, does anyone see any similarities between this year's Gopher team and the 1995-1996 Gophers? From what I can remember, that Gopher squad was young, and had it's fair share of ups and downs. They ended 19-11, 10-8 in the Big Ten, and went to the 2nd round of the NIT. It had a deep bench, and had a good guard that transferred in from a Juco school (Bobby Jackson). It had a home town talent that we'd hope would reach his potential (Sam Jacobsen). The following season, the 1996-1997 Gophers built on all of the ups and downs of a young team the year before, and took care of business the next season. They didn't lose road games they should have won, and won their games at home. Imagine what things would have looked like this year for the Gophs if we had won close games at Illinois and Michigan to start the season, and beaten a team they should have beaten twice (Iowa). They would be sitting at 9-2 and be tied for First in the Big Ten right now. But this is a young team that needs to grow together, and learn from their mistakes. I still think we'll make the NCAA tourney this year, but man I am excited for next year! Andre Hollins coming on of late, Austin's shot looking great, Chip providing a spark off the bench, and Welch giving us a change of pace guard that can spot up and hit a 3. Getting big bodies of Mo Walker and EE back will provide depth, and if we can rotate Rodney, Oto and.....Trevor in at the PF...look out! I think without Sampson, and with young guys having a year under their belts, our chemistry next year will be great, and honestly, next year, the sky is the limit.
Anyone See Similarites to the 1995-1996 Gophs this year?
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I agree a lot with this post. I do think the loss of Ralph is being understated, he drives many people insane at time, but he is a very good passer, has a very good jump shot and is a solid shot blocker. He has not done as well without Trevor being a force next to him, but he is a key part of this team.
Hopefully Mo fills that void very well. I think he definitley can. He seems to have a good shot and good touch and may not need the force next to him to be as effective. I am excited to see him out there, but Ralph is much more important to this team than many realize.
Hopefully Mo fills that void very well. I think he definitley can. He seems to have a good shot and good touch and may not need the force next to him to be as effective. I am excited to see him out there, but Ralph is much more important to this team than many realize.
I followed the 95-96 team closely, and I don't see the comparison, other than the esoterics of a juco guard and a hometown player.
What I recall most is teh team being hurt badly at the beginning of the year with Bobby's injury, and losses that would have been wins (specifically against Cal) with him in the line up would have gotten this team into the NCAA for sure. It was very likely they were one of the last two or three out. They had a huge second half, including a monster win at Illinios on the last day of the season to go to 10-8 with me and many other non-technical fans thinking 10-8 would be a lock. I still think we got hosed on Selection Sunday.
They got pounded by Tulane in the NIT, which I think showed them how much they needed to work to prep for the next season. They did and the rest was history etched into my mind even if not the record books. I am just not seeing the talent level now equating with those two seasons.
What I recall most is teh team being hurt badly at the beginning of the year with Bobby's injury, and losses that would have been wins (specifically against Cal) with him in the line up would have gotten this team into the NCAA for sure. It was very likely they were one of the last two or three out. They had a huge second half, including a monster win at Illinios on the last day of the season to go to 10-8 with me and many other non-technical fans thinking 10-8 would be a lock. I still think we got hosed on Selection Sunday.
They got pounded by Tulane in the NIT, which I think showed them how much they needed to work to prep for the next season. They did and the rest was history etched into my mind even if not the record books. I am just not seeing the talent level now equating with those two seasons.
If somehow Rodney and Trevor were to come back (huge, huge if) we would certainly have a pretty solid team next year. Pretty hard to compare to the 95-96 team which ended up having Jacobson, Thomas, Jackson, Lewis get drafted by the NBA and also had a physical beast in James who had NBA ability were it not for his personal screw ups. That team also had a really good point guard in Harris who controlled tempo, hit his open shots and played great defense on the opposing PG.
I like your optimism though!
PavedWithGold
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I like the thought process, and although I can see some similarities, I have to disagree with the comparison of the talent levels of the two teams. Other than both guys being Juco transfer guards, Welch cannot be compared to Bobby J in manner. Bobby was a go to scorer that could create for himself and others, not to mention being the Big10 defensive POY (although I thought Eric Harris was a better defender). Welch often looks like he's playing in slow motion. If Mbakwe can come back, he is comparable to Courtney James, and IMO better. Walker/Eliason could potentially provide what John Thomas did. I'm assuming you were comparing Rodney to Sam Jacobson. Yes they are both local products who have crazy athleticism. But Jacobson could shoot the lights out and was a matchup headache. Harris was a true point guard that ran the show. This team has nobody like that. However, I have often wondered if Charles Thomas had back surgery and changed his name to Chip Armelin.
To win at a high level, you usually need high end talent. That 95-96 team had four future 1st Round draft picks. How many 1st Rounders do you see on this year's squad? Mbakwe was a tweener when healthy, and Rodney MAY be if someone is drafting purely on potential.
To win at a high level, you usually need high end talent. That 95-96 team had four future 1st Round draft picks. How many 1st Rounders do you see on this year's squad? Mbakwe was a tweener when healthy, and Rodney MAY be if someone is drafting purely on potential.
However, I have often wondered if Charles Thomas had back surgery and changed his name to Chip Armelin.
Great post, but I have to take exception to that one. Despite being "damaged goods" (bad back) Charles had a nice natural jumper. Every time I see Chip shoot, I wonder, and I am grateful a lot of them are going in. Both lefties, though.
Great post, but I have to take exception to that one. Despite being "damaged goods" (bad back) Charles had a nice natural jumper. Every time I see Chip shoot, I wonder, and I am grateful a lot of them are going in. Both lefties, though.
You're right, I don't think that their talent level matches up at every position, and I don't necessarily think that Julian Welch will be the second coming of Bobby Jackson. But I do see this as a team full of talent that is using this year as a learning experience for next year. Losing some close games that, with some experience, they could pull off next year. Learning how to play with each other, learning each others' strengths, and finding out what each others' roles are on the team. It's fun to see Austin fit into his niche as a spot up shooter with a ton of athleticism to take it to the hoop. I like seeing Chip realize that he is a spark plug off the bench, and sometimes we need someone without a conscience to make some shots for the second team. It'll be nice to have a physical big man like John Thomas in EE and Mo Williams. If Rodney stays next year, and I really hope for his sake that he does (considering he is not even projected as a 2nd round pick at this point), I can really see Rodney developing into the player he needs to be in this offense next year, and he can be a huge defensive factor if he comes back in his senior year. You can already see this team being a tough defensive team that is extremely athletic, and if we can build on this season to get some consistent chemistry on offense, we should be a strong Big Ten team next season.
brucekaupa
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The starting 5 of the '96-'97 team was quite possibly the most muscular starting 5 in college basketball that year. I remember the TV announcers commenting on that several times throughout the season.
GophersInIowa
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I do think Chip Armelin is similar to what Quincy Lewis was early in his career. Not necessarily in the type of player they were/are (Lewis was 6-7) but that they provide "instant offense" when coming off the bench. I think Armelin can be a great 6th man for us the next few years. Right now he leads the team in points per minute. He does need to improve his FT percentage and needs to be more selective in his 3-point attempts however.
Totally agree with you here - but I do see that Rodney is now listed on NBA draft.net as the last pick in the 2nd round- right behind Robbie Hummel. He should stay and continue his progress, which has been good this year.
Shooting can be like a golf swing. It can look wierd but also be effective if you are able to repeat it every time. Look at Shurna- now there is an unusual shot that works!
GophersInIowa
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The first thing I thought of was Charles Barkley except his swing isn't effective. I agree with what you're saying though.
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From the Barn
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Charles Thomas had a broken jumper that was released about a second late every time, though it did tend to go in.
Sometimes I see a little bit of Quincy Lewis in Austin Hollins, but NOBODY on this roster has a chance to be as good as either Bobby Jackson or Sam in the back court. Those guys were scorers and great shooters. Plus Bobby had a huge basketball IQ and was great in the clutch. John Thomas and Courtney James used to destroy people on the boards and played great defense. I don't think Mo Walker will ever be that type of player.
The 96-97 was special and probably wins the National Championship if not for the blown charge call that got Clem T'd up...
Our current crop of young players are athletic and have some potential but clearly lack the skill, size and basketball IQ of that 96-97 team.
The 96-97 was special and probably wins the National Championship if not for the blown charge call that got Clem T'd up...
Our current crop of young players are athletic and have some potential but clearly lack the skill, size and basketball IQ of that 96-97 team.
LongLiveMilesTarver
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NBAdraft.net is the website I go to when I just want to be pissed off for no reason at all. At one point early in his freshman year (after about five games) Rodney was projected as the number two pick in the entire draft. I just can't trust a website that is as stupid as that.
I don't see any similarities between this season and '96-97, but I sure wish I did. They replayed the Gophers final Big Ten from that season on the BTN's "Greatest Games" last week. The Gophers went in to Champaign, in Henson's last game!, to play the Illini with a bid to the tourney thought to be on the line for both teams. The Gophers won that game behind a big peformance from Bobby Jackson to finish 10-8 in the conference. They were 7-2 in the second half of the Big Ten season and the 2 losses were very close games. That team, and the Gopher fans, were likely robbed of a run in the tournament that year. They were the first Big Ten team to ever finish with a 10-8 conference record and fail to make the tournament in the 64 team era and have to be one of the biggest indefensible snubs of all time.
More importantly, that team returned everyone but David Grimm (and I believe Mark Jones transferred as well)for the 96-97 season. John Thomas, Courtney James, Trevor Winter, Sam Jacobson, Bobby Jackson, Eric Harris, Charles Thomas. That 95-96 team had 3 future first round draft picks, a second round pick, a guy who had a cup of coffee in the NBA (Winter) and a guy who would have likely been in the league if not for his off the court issues (James).
The current team has some interesting pieces, but the talent level as a whole is not comparable in the least.
More importantly, that team returned everyone but David Grimm (and I believe Mark Jones transferred as well)for the 96-97 season. John Thomas, Courtney James, Trevor Winter, Sam Jacobson, Bobby Jackson, Eric Harris, Charles Thomas. That 95-96 team had 3 future first round draft picks, a second round pick, a guy who had a cup of coffee in the NBA (Winter) and a guy who would have likely been in the league if not for his off the court issues (James).
The current team has some interesting pieces, but the talent level as a whole is not comparable in the least.
brucekaupa
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A couple corrections, EG...
- Don't forget about Hosea.
- 4 first-round picks: Jackson (#23 in '97), Thomas (#25 in '97), Jacobson (#26 in '98) and Lewis (#19 in '99).
- And as I recently learned, Mark Jones also played in the NBA.
- Don't forget about Hosea.
- 4 first-round picks: Jackson (#23 in '97), Thomas (#25 in '97), Jacobson (#26 in '98) and Lewis (#19 in '99).
- And as I recently learned, Mark Jones also played in the NBA.
Forgot Quincy was on the team in '95-96 so you are right about the 4 first round picks, and wasn't Hosea a walk on?
Mark Jones was the second round pick I referred to, but I wasn't sure if he ever actually played in an NBA game.
Mark Jones was the second round pick I referred to, but I wasn't sure if he ever actually played in an NBA game.
brucekaupa
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You were pointing out who was on the team in '95-'96 that wasn't on the team in '96-'97. Walk on or not, he was on the team.
And exactly when was Mark Jones drafted in the 2nd round? Here is his NBA resume: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jonesma03.html
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Great discussion, 95/96 doesn't equal 2011/12, but the good point is there is a nucleus with this current edition. The underlying question, however, is whether over the summer, Austin, Dre throw in Welch or even Rodney (if he returns) can become a reliable scorer, particularly in the last 5 minutes (ala Bobby Jackson). The biggest weakness of this team is the lack of the dagger, the defining last two or three shots at the end of the game, icing the contest and sending a message to future opponents, the Gophers finish games.