Another Police Related Shooting in the MSP Area?

short ornery norwegian

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And now - get a load of this - former short-term Gopher Royce White turns up in the story.

(from the Strib) article on protesters being arrested Friday night:

Accusing some of being too passive, Royce White, a former professional basketball player and co-founder of a group called 10K, called on the Black men in the crowd to storm the fence because Black men "are the ones getting killed by police."

"The fence represents tyranny. The fence is a smack in the face. The fence is spitting on Daunte Wright's face.… We have the numbers. We should continue to push."

He also said that protesters who were working to keep others peaceful and from breaching the fence were not helping the cause.

But many others shouted denunciations of White and his group and cried out that the pleas of the majority of Black protesters, especially women, should be heeded.


you can't make this stuff up.
 

scools12

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there have been several posts where people said "he resisted arrest" - which seems to be at the very least an implication that anything that happened after that is his fault.

And yes - Wright is responsible for his own actions. But - the police are also responsible. It is not a case where one side is 100% at fault - both sides are at fault. The "left" should not excuse Wright's actions and the "right" should not excuse the police's actions.

Cops have a tough job. no one is disputing that. But when someone is being stopped or arrested - unless they are clearly armed and dangerous - there has to be a better outcome than having the suspect wind up dead at the hands of the police.
Posts have said that his attempt to resist arrest contributed to his death. You are making an incorrect assumption on what that implies.

Those posts also point out, which you conveniently ignore, is that the officers actions are not excused and that Wright’s actions should not have resulted in his death.
 


BarnBurner

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And now - get a load of this - former short-term Gopher Royce White turns up in the story.

(from the Strib) article on protesters being arrested Friday night:

Accusing some of being too passive, Royce White, a former professional basketball player and co-founder of a group called 10K, called on the Black men in the crowd to storm the fence because Black men "are the ones getting killed by police."

"The fence represents tyranny. The fence is a smack in the face. The fence is spitting on Daunte Wright's face.… We have the numbers. We should continue to push."

He also said that protesters who were working to keep others peaceful and from breaching the fence were not helping the cause.

But many others shouted denunciations of White and his group and cried out that the pleas of the majority of Black protesters, especially women, should be heeded.


you can't make this stuff up.
Keep blaming the police.
 



KillerGopherFan

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I wonder if this guy has any photos holding a gun. Go to Facebook!
No one is defending him. He was obviously a very mentally disturbed young person that his mother reported to police as a ‘suicide by cop’ probability and reported to police a year ago. They took his shotgun, but he had committed no crime, so they couldn’t do any more than that.
 


MplsGopher

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The "left" should not excuse Wright's actions
The only things that have been said are:

1) (captain obvious) resisting arrest doesn't mean you should get shot with a gun
2) he was put into a situation by police that wouldn't have happened if he were White
 

KillerGopherFan

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It's not in the slightest.

Men can very easily be bitches. As shown in this thread, and very often on this board.Definition of bitch
Tell me, where is the term “man” in M-W’s definition of the term “bitch”? You’re using a derogatory term for a woman to describe a man. That is bigotry against women. Idiot.

From Merrimack-Webster:

1: the female of the dog or some other carnivorous mammals The behavioral endocrinology of both male dogs and bitches is quite unique and differs from that of most other mammals …— Ian Dunbar— compare DOG entry 1 sense 1b
2ainformal + often offensive : a malicious, spiteful, or overbearing woman
binformal + offensive — used as a generalized term of abuse and disparagement for a woman
 




MplsGopher

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KillerGopherFan

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Why would I arbitrarily limit myself to M-W's definition?

I think I'll just use the idiomatic definition from very commonly used, modern English.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitch_(slang)#Bitch_slap

the term is now frequently used figuratively to describe a humiliating defeat or punishment.
You skipped over the first paragraphs. Even if you use it to describe a man, it’s attributing derogatory women characteristics onto a man of that of a woman. You sexist, misogynist, bigoted pig!!!

Bitch is a pejorative slang word for a person, usually a woman. When applied to a woman or girl, it means someone who is belligerent, unreasonable, malicious, controlling, aggressive, or dominant.[1] When applied to a man or boy, bitch reverses its meaning and is a derogatory term for being subordinate, weak, or cowardly.

The term bitch is one of the most common curse words in the English language. It has been used as a "term of contempt towards women" for "over six centuries",[2] and is a slur that fosters sexism against women.[3] It has been characterized as "an archaic word demeaning women since as early as the 15th century" that seeks to control women.[4] The word is considered taboo by mainstream media, and has been called "the B-word" to minimize its negative impact.[5]
 






BarnBurner

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there have been several posts where people said "he resisted arrest" - which seems to be at the very least an implication that anything that happened after that is his fault.

And yes - Wright is responsible for his own actions. But - the police are also responsible. It is not a case where one side is 100% at fault - both sides are at fault. The "left" should not excuse Wright's actions and the "right" should not excuse the police's actions.

Cops have a tough job. no one is disputing that. But when someone is being stopped or arrested - unless they are clearly armed and dangerous - there has to be a better outcome than having the suspect wind up dead at the hands of the police.
1. He did resist arrest.
2. That is a fact, not an implication.
3. He had a felony warrant. and then you say......
4. "But when someone is being stopped or arrested - unless they are clearly armed and dangerous - there has to be a better outcome than having the suspect wind up dead at the hands of the police.
5. He was obviously dangerous - felony assault for holding a woman at gunpoint and robbing her.
6. If I might use an implication here - you are saying a better outcome would be for Wright to have fled in a vehicle, putting other innocent people at high risk.

So, in summary, the Joes are A-OK with putting other innocent folks at risk, as long as the criminal is OK.
 




MplsGopher

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You pretty much have to be a klansman to say it was more than 50% his own fault.
 



jamiche

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Not at all. jammer is, which is why it’s odd that he’s using one. Sometimes there are topics that are binary. Sometimes things are nuanced. Dante didn’t deserve to die. Binary. We agree.
Actually, I wasn't. You are just using a new word, melvin. You aren't actually presenting an argument.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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OK - let's try this:

Assess blame for Wright's death.

I will put 25% on Wright and 75% on the police.

Your turn.

If politics weren't involved in this matter this would be a really difficult thing to determine. Some folks on here aren't going to actually think about this with any sort of realism but we need to keep in mind the kinds of mistakes people make.

For example, two people run a red light (the same red light). One person was texting at the time and the other person just missed it (or had sun in their eye). From a civil stand point, we like to pretend that jurors would find them each, equally at fault. In reality, it's not true (civilly or criminally).

When you commit an act that is 100% intentional and often criminal (fleeing from police or texting while driving) those types of decisions tend to impact this analysis more than mistakes.

For this particular case, I guess you'd have to analyze what you think the likelihood is that she acted intentionally (she wanted to shoot him) versus her making a catastrophically stupid mistake (pulled gun when thought it was a taser).

For me, if I am merely assessing blame. I'd probably go 55% officer and 45% Wright.
As far as criminal action, there should not be charges. I think there is virtually zero chance she intended to kill him and it clearly doesn't rise to the level of manslaughter.

Now, I know stupid people are going to want to drag this into a "deserve" argument. Even if it were 100% Wright's fault, I don't think he deserved to die. I don't think the person texting and missing the railroad crossing (100% their fault) deserve to die.
 


Section2

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OK - let's try this:

Assess blame for Wright's death.

I will put 25% on Wright and 75% on the police.

Your turn.
Impossible. The police officer meant to use a taser and accidentally shot him. That error is 100% on the police.
but Dante also made terrible decisions (like 3-4 of them) which also put him in this position.
so I’d rather put it on a scale of 1-10 how big is the injustice. I’d give it about a 4. The woman who called police to report an attack and got shot is a 10.
 


saintpaulguy

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If politics weren't involved in this matter this would be a really difficult thing to determine. Some folks on here aren't going to actually think about this with any sort of realism but we need to keep in mind the kinds of mistakes people make.

For example, two people run a red light (the same red light). One person was texting at the time and the other person just missed it (or had sun in their eye). From a civil stand point, we like to pretend that jurors would find them each, equally at fault. In reality, it's not true (civilly or criminally).

When you commit an act that is 100% intentional and often criminal (fleeing from police or texting while driving) those types of decisions tend to impact this analysis more than mistakes.

For this particular case, I guess you'd have to analyze what you think the likelihood is that she acted intentionally (she wanted to shoot him) versus her making a catastrophically stupid mistake (pulled gun when thought it was a taser).

For me, if I am merely assessing blame. I'd probably go 55% officer and 45% Wright.
As far as criminal action, there should not be charges. I think there is virtually zero chance she intended to kill him and it clearly doesn't rise to the level of manslaughter.

Now, I know stupid people are going to want to drag this into a "deserve" argument. Even if it were 100% Wright's fault, I don't think he deserved to die. I don't think the person texting and missing the railroad crossing (100% their fault) deserve to die.
Well done. But I’d say she needs to find another line of work.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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It doesn't matter, his death is the result of a mistake.
Hundreds of thousands of deaths occur every year from medical, and surgical mistakes. Why no demands of prison time for all those doctors & surgeons? Why no outrage? Why no protests? Why does one accidental death, mean more to you than hundreds of thousands of accidental deaths?
 

goldengophers

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Hundreds of thousands of deaths occur every year from medical, and surgical mistakes. Why no demands of prison time for all those doctors & surgeons? Why no outrage? Why no protests? Why does one accidental death, mean more to you than hundreds of thousands of accidental deaths?
Go ask the protestors tonight and attorneys on Monday, these proper parties for your whataboutism inquiries.
 




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