Another look at the bench

Donate To GopherHole
B

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
59,334
Reaction score
22,668
Points
113
The only really good thing about the Michigan game was that Welch got some confidence back. If I had my wish about the bench I would cut it down to Welch, Elliason and Ellenson sprinkled in with the first teamers. Welch could get some decent minutes backing up both Coleman and Andre while Ellenson would be a nice back up for Austin or Coleman. Ellenson hasn't earned the minutes yet, but he's the best hope of a guy developing into a sparkplug for the team when things are not going well. He's got high potential and high energy and given the minutes- I think he helps. Regarding Maverick- I think he's a better sub at the 2 guard if we are being zoned- than at the point. Mav is a good shooter, but the ball handling.....

That was a wasted paragraph because Tubby isn't going to do any of it, but it makes me feel good to see it in print. :)
 

I agree with you, though I would find spot minutes for Ingram depending on the match ups, and we can't abandon the Mo Walker Project entirely, though as the season goes along it is more and more difficult to find minutes.

I would love to see Wally with the first unit here and there, and I agree with your assessment with how Mav should be used. I don't buy into the notion that the second unit plays together in practice so they should only play together in games. It's not as if we're bringing guys off the street and that chemistry is an issue...these guys have been living together, playing together, practicing together for hundreds and hundreds of hours.

Go Gophers!!
 

I agree, I have been thinking something very similar and feel good to see I'm not alone. Thanks for posting your thoughts in print. :)
 

I really appreciate how often Tubby was going to his bench in the non conference schedule now. It's tough to get a feel for your bench and who will deliver good minutes once the games are really competitive.

I would like to see Wally get a chance over Otto pretty soon. Otto has been looking pretty tight lately in big ten action, and we need some scoring off the bench.
 

BleedGopher said:
I agree with you, though I would find spot minutes for Ingram depending on the match ups, and we can't abandon the Mo Walker Project entirely, though as the season goes along it is more and more difficult to find minutes.

I would love to see Wally with the first unit here and there, and I agree with your assessment with how Mav should be used. I don't buy into the notion that the second unit plays together in practice so they should only play together in games. It's not as if we're bringing guys off the street and that chemistry is an issue...these guys have been living together, playing together, practicing together for hundreds and hundreds of hours.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

I still have high hopes for Walker for next year. It's just apparent that at this weight and at this stage of his recovery he can't get off the floor and he has real trouble defending in Tubby's defensive scheme which requires some chasing. I think he'd be all right in a zone defense.
 


bga1 said:
I still have high hopes for Walker for next year. It's just apparent that at this weight and at this stage of his recovery he can't get off the floor and he has real trouble defending in Tubby's defensive scheme which requires some chasing. I think he'd be all right in a zone defense.
Click to expand...

He needs to lose weight and gain mobility this offseason. If he loses let's say 20-25 lbs this offseason, now we know he's serious about contributing next season.

If he comes back around the same weight, his career is as good as wasted.
 

I know a lot of people want to see Wally over Oto, but... don't you think that Tubby wants an excuse to play Wally (to make his family happier, etc, etc) and therefore would play him if he were at all ready? I just can't help but feel like if there was anything near a "tie" between the two for minutes that Wally would get some (or all) of the minutes. Makes me think that he really must not be ready.
 

JDGopher said:
I know a lot of people want to see Wally over Oto, but... don't you think that Tubby wants an excuse to play Wally (to make his family happier, etc, etc) and therefore would play him if he were at all ready? I just can't help but feel like if there was anything near a "tie" between the two for minutes that Wally would get some (or all) of the minutes. Makes me think that he really must not be ready.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The few minutes of garbage time that Wally played against NU he looked clueless and undisciplined. However, you can see that he's an athlete and, since there's nowhere to go with this bench, I would find five minutes a game for him by taking minutes from Otto and/or Mav.

Walker looks like he has regressed since his freshman year. He has nice hands and a good eye but he's playing in a jar of molasses.
 

Quick, guess the bench player that commits the fewest turnovers per possession.














Yup, oto.
 



From the Barn said:
Quick, guess the bench player that commits the fewest turnovers per possession.

Yup, oto.
Click to expand...

Style of play. He's also the one who shoots the most. And the one who has shot the worst. 2/20 3FG.

Oto does show some fight out there and gets to some rebounds, though.
 

Too bad Wally was injured during the pre big ten season. He needed those minutes. If he would have had that experience, he would be playing many of these needed bench minutes now. I hope the gophers come out focused and on a mission and we see him and the entire bench get lots of minutes on Wednesday. Win by 20!
 

I'd keep playing Ingram, especially in a situation where he's in with mostly starters. I think he can do a nice job on the boards, take some charges, and add some toughness. My perception is Ingram does well when the ball doesn't have to touch his hands much, but when he plays with other limited players he struggles.

Not sure if I have more hope for Oto or Mo at this stage of their careers. Oto will have a few spurts on the court where he looks good, but his jumper is completely broken. Mo just looks unable to play at this level do to his lack of lift and lack of quickness.
 

EG#9 said:
I'd keep playing Ingram, especially in a situation where he's in with mostly starters. I think he can do a nice job on the boards, take some charges, and add some toughness. My perception is Ingram does well when the ball doesn't have to touch his hands much, but when he plays with other limited players he struggles.

Not sure if I have more hope for Oto or Mo at this stage of their careers. Oto will have a few spurts on the court where he looks good, but his jumper is completely broken. Mo just looks unable to play at this level do to his lack of lift and lack of quickness.
Click to expand...

If that's the choice... it's Mo. Guy is a solid 6'10" or taller. When he was in-shape last year (and against weaker competition, which is important to note) he was extremely productive. I see no reason that he can't eventually right the ship (if he loses some weight and stays healthy- the two of which go together, in my mind). You can't teach size like that...
 



JDGopher said:
If that's the choice... it's Mo. Guy is a solid 6'10" or taller. When he was in-shape last year (and against weaker competition, which is important to note) he was extremely productive. I see no reason that he can't eventually right the ship (if he loses some weight and stays healthy- the two of which go together, in my mind). You can't teach size like that...
Click to expand...

Mo did not play one minute last year - he redshirted. Two years ago, he played 12 games, then ripped apart his knew. He averaged 9.6 minutes, 3.7 pts and 2.8 rebounds per game. These numbers are quite similar to the numbers he is putting up this year - when he plays at all.

That he can't get on the court in front of Andre Ingram - in Tubby's play everyone system - should tell you everything you need to know. Counting on anything much from Mo for the next two years is a stretch at best. We need frontcourt help the next two years.
 



Personally, I think the bench player (other than Wally and Buggs) with the most potential is Oto. He seems to be fast enough and tough enough. I hope he puts it together as this would be a huge addition. Eliason also has potential. I think it is safe to say we know what we get with Mav, Ingram, and Welch.
 

If Tubby would play 3-4 bench guys with one of the Hollins or any starter who can score, their deficiencies wouldn't be as glaring. Everyone points out that Michigan played a second 5 when Tubby did. They did not. They left in a scorer/creater in Hardaway. He had the ball and looked for offense, then if doubled, he found the open guy. This is critical. It is the one stubborness of Tubby that I have not seen a bigtime coach stick with that I wish would dissappear.
 

GopherJake said:
Mo did not play one minute last year - he redshirted. Two years ago, he played 12 games, then ripped apart his knew. He averaged 9.6 minutes, 3.7 pts and 2.8 rebounds per game. These numbers are quite similar to the numbers he is putting up this year - when he plays at all.

That he can't get on the court in front of Andre Ingram - in Tubby's play everyone system - should tell you everything you need to know. Counting on anything much from Mo for the next two years is a stretch at best. We need frontcourt help the next two years.
Click to expand...

If you can't play defense you ain't getting on the floor in Tubbyland. You can be a great offensive player (and Mo is not) and you are still riding the pine. Ingram plays good defense and draws charges. It's up to Mo between this year and the start of next season to do the work necessary to get the quickness to play defense in Tubby's system. If Mo puts in the work he will be a solid Gopher player yet.
 

bga1 said:
If you can't play defense you ain't getting on the floor in Tubbyland. You can be a great offensive player (and Mo is not) and you are still riding the pine. Ingram plays good defense and draws charges. It's up to Mo between this year and the start of next season to do the work necessary to get the quickness to play defense in Tubby's system. If Mo puts in the work he will be a solid Gopher player yet.
Click to expand...

Right. So, in summation, Mo has no offense and no defense.

I hope you are right, and Mo will do the work, but I would not count on it. He was injured over 2 years ago. He has had plenty of time to get himself in position to make a contribution to this year's team that has room for him. But he is a complete non-factor. Depending on a change from non-factor to impact or even serviceable player is wishful thinking. I wish him the best.
 


Don't want to start a fight - but I have to ask the Wally fan club a question.

What has he done to demonstrate that he deserves more playing time, especially in conference games?

From what little I've seen, he is athletic - but that doesn't mean he's ready to play significant minutes for a team that is fighting for a conference title.

IMHO, the only subs I really trust right now are Ingram (hustles, takes the charge) and Welch (adds some offense.) Oto seems to do his best work on the inside- not as a shooter. Barring injury, my gut tells me the Gophs best chance down the stretch is to go with a 7-8 man rotation, and pray that Dre stays out of foul trouble.
 

Last two games by Oto. Under 10 minutes total play time. 5 turnovers, one offense foul. His turnovers led to 13 points combined by Indiana and Michigan. So do still want Oto on the floor?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Don't want to start a fight - but I have to ask the Wally fan club a question.

What has he done to demonstrate that he deserves more playing time, especially in conference games?

From what little I've seen, he is athletic - but that doesn't mean he's ready to play significant minutes for a team that is fighting for a conference title.

IMHO, the only subs I really trust right now are Ingram (hustles, takes the charge) and Welch (adds some offense.) Oto seems to do his best work on the inside- not as a shooter. Barring injury, my gut tells me the Gophs best chance down the stretch is to go with a 7-8 man rotation, and pray that Dre stays out of foul trouble.
Click to expand...

You bring up a good point. I think some (including me) are not satisfied with Otto's play and we are hoping that Wally could seize the opportunity. You are probably right though about him not being ready.
 

Tubby is a defense first coach. Oto's defense has been ok. Wally will unseat him, if and when, he can fully understand the defensive expectations and meet them more so than Oto can.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Don't want to start a fight - but I have to ask the Wally fan club a question.

What has he done to demonstrate that he deserves more playing time, especially in conference games?

From what little I've seen, he is athletic - but that doesn't mean he's ready to play significant minutes for a team that is fighting for a conference title.

IMHO, the only subs I really trust right now are Ingram (hustles, takes the charge) and Welch (adds some offense.) Oto seems to do his best work on the inside- not as a shooter. Barring injury, my gut tells me the Gophs best chance down the stretch is to go with a 7-8 man rotation, and pray that Dre stays out of foul trouble.
Click to expand...

I personally think Tubby should have kept the redshirt if this is how Wally was going to be used. I konw it was Wally's decision but currently this looks like a wasted year. On to your question- he has done very little, perhaps becaue he has had no chance to. So far he has played 30 minutes with only 6 in conference (against NU). I just have a hard time believing he cannot crack this team's second five
and he might provide some athleticism to a group that has little.

PS I fully agree that a 7 or 8 man rotation is the way to go.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Don't want to start a fight - but I have to ask the Wally fan club a question.

What has he done to demonstrate that he deserves more playing time, especially in conference games?

From what little I've seen, he is athletic - but that doesn't mean he's ready to play significant minutes for a team that is fighting for a conference title.

IMHO, the only subs I really trust right now are Ingram (hustles, takes the charge) and Welch (adds some offense.) Oto seems to do his best work on the inside- not as a shooter. Barring injury, my gut tells me the Gophs best chance down the stretch is to go with a 7-8 man rotation, and pray that Dre stays out of foul trouble.
Click to expand...

I firmly believe that if he were ready, Tubby would play him. If there were a tie between he and Oto, you'd have to imagine that he holds the tiebreak of wanting to keep the family happy... I am sure Tubby would love to play him, but he just must not be ready.
 

JDGopher said:
I firmly believe that if he were ready, Tubby would play him. If there were a tie between he and Oto, you'd have to imagine that he holds the tiebreak of wanting to keep the family happy... I am sure Tubby would love to play him, but he just must not be ready.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you are right. However, you get ready and learn ...by playing. Not many thought that Andre Hollins was ready to lead us in the BT Tourney or in the NIT. But there was a moment in time where the lights went on. I'm not saying Ellenson is Andre by any means but he has more potential than anyone we have sitting on that bench. If we want real upside for our post season.... I'd get him in whenever possible to see if he can develop. I think he would do at least as well as Oto right now.
 

bga1 said:
Not many thought that Andre Hollins was ready to lead us in the BT Tourney or in the NIT. QUOTE]

Lots of people were actually, since he lit of Findlay in high school many were calling him the second coming...at least of townsend orr
Click to expand...
 

bga1;643404[B said:
]I still have high hopes for Walker for next year[/B]. It's just apparent that at this weight and at this stage of his recovery he can't get off the floor and he has real trouble defending in Tubby's defensive scheme which requires some chasing. I think he'd be all right in a zone defense.
Click to expand...

+1
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom