Andre vs Joe

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Block M

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Andre now needs to be given Joe's starting position; he has a better offensive game and has earned it. Gophers need his shooting threat on the court as much as possible. I really like Joe; but he has not scored a point in several games in a row and is struggling.
 

Block M said:
Andre now needs to be given Joe's starting position; he has a better offensive game and has earned it. Gophers need his shooting threat on the court as much as possible. I really like Joe; but he has not scored a point in several games in a row and is struggling.
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+1
 

Teams have sealed the drive off the baseline and lane on Joe. He gets caught in no mans land when he picks up his dribble and he doesn't have the lenght to go over the top. He needs to develope a pull-up jumper and at least be a reasonalbe threat from three; then that will open the lanes back up for him. He's a smart kid and he'll get it down. As someone pointed out, he has kind of hit the freshman wall.
 

Agree 100%. Tubby has shown some flexibility with his starting lineup (except for refusing to start EE over Ralph), and now's probably a good time to put Andre back in the starting lineup. He's earned it with his play, just as Joe did a while back. Joe appears to be a confident kid, he's not going to go into a shell if he loses his starting spot. Clearly Andre has gained confidence, and Joe has lost some of his. Just flip-flop 'em in turns of who starts.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Agree 100%. Tubby has shown some flexibility with his starting lineup (except for refusing to start EE over Ralph), and now's probably a good time to put Andre back in the starting lineup. He's earned it with his play, just as Joe did a while back. Joe appears to be a confident kid, he's not going to go into a shell if he loses his starting spot. Clearly Andre has gained confidence, and Joe has lost some of his. Just flip-flop 'em in turns of who starts.
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Oddly enough- in the future I think that these two are an ideal pairing if Andre can learn to run an offense as well as score. A great shooter and a great slasher together in the backcourt sounds pretty good to me.
 


Block M said:
Andre now needs to be given Joe's starting position; he has a better offensive game and has earned it. Gophers need his shooting threat on the court as much as possible. I really like Joe; but he has not scored a point in several games in a row and is struggling.
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Andre with 28 minutes last night. Joe with 16. Andre given the last shot in regulation. Andre put it up 12 times, second most on the team behind Rodney with 13 attempts. Starting or not starting, he did get good minutes last night and did well as you alluded to. Only one turnover. Seems like he's getting his confidence. It will be interesting as to how Tubby handles it.
 

Do we really want our two best point guards on the court at the same time? I agree that Dre deserves to start, but...
 

1st line
Welch
Hollins
Hollins
Williams
Sampson

2nd line
Mav
Chip
Coleman
Oto
Eliason

I don't mind it. Play the hot, confident hand. We really can't afford not to.

Wow, we are so young.
 

bga1 said:
Oddly enough- in the future I think that these two are an ideal pairing if Andre can learn to run an offense as well as score. A great shooter and a great slasher together in the backcourt sounds pretty good to me.
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+1
 



Coleman's a great kid with an undeniable work ethic.

It's concerning that he's worked so hard on his game over the years, but is still nowhere near being a competent shooter.
 

point guard 10 said:
Do we really want our two best point guards on the court at the same time? I agree that Dre deserves to start, but...
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Well the alternative would be to let them each play 20 minutes per game. I want them both on the court as much as possible (unless they're having a bad day) as they are 2 of our best 5 players.
 

Facts34 said:
Coleman's a great kid with an undeniable work ethic.

It's concerning that he's worked so hard on his game over the years, but is still nowhere near being a competent shooter.
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The jump shot is the hardest thing to fix. It is so much muscle memory for one thing, if you've shot a certain way for your entire life it takes awhile to get yourself to do it differently when you only have a split second to put the shot up. Someone needed to put out any mechanical flaws in about 6th grade and made him fix it then. It is a lot harder to do as a Freshman/Sophmore in college. It also is not the easiest thing in the world, so many different parts, how you get your rythem, where you catch the ball, where you release the ball, your confidence. A lot goes into it. NBA players spend a full-time summer to try and improve their jump shooting. Rondo still hasn't.

He could also still improve ball handling and finishing around the hoop instead of just drawing contact. I would expect greater improvement in those areas as well, same with Rodney, as they are easier to improve than the mechanics of your jump shot.

Joe's work ethic give me no reason to believe that every second he is not in class over summer he will be working on that jump shot. and hopefully he makes some progress with it. OT: This is when a practice facility is nice, 24/7 access to improving that jump shot. Just sitting in the gym with music on and shoot for hours with no worry of when the gym might be available.
 




ruppertflywheel said:
Teams have sealed the drive off the baseline and lane on Joe. He gets caught in no mans land when he picks up his dribble and he doesn't have the lenght to go over the top. He needs to develope a pull-up jumper and at least be a reasonalbe threat from three; then that will open the lanes back up for him. He's a smart kid and he'll get it down. As someone pointed out, he has kind of hit the freshman wall.
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The thing is he has soft touch and is a good free throw shooter, kind of hard to figure.
 

Not saying Joe is a "competent" shooter, but how do we know that he isn't? The last time I can think of him shooting a jump shot was against St. Peters. The list of players that couldn't shoot as a Freshman that were good shooters as Sophomores and Seniors is a long one (Eric Harris comes to mind). Pull up from 17 feet, Joe!!! It likely won't rank in the bottom 20% when ranking quality shots in a game.

By the way, It's Andre and Joe, not Andre vs. Joe.
 

balds said:
Not saying Joe is a "competent" shooter, but how do we know that he isn't? The last time I can think of him shooting a jump shot was against St. Peters. The list of players that couldn't shoot as a Freshman that were good shooters as Sophomores and Seniors is a long one (Eric Harris comes to mind). Pull up from 17 feet, Joe!!! It likely won't rank in the bottom 20% when ranking quality shots in a game.
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I agree with your point, but Coleman's lack of confidence in his jumper is what tips me off. Pretty much every time he gets the ball on the wing, his first motion is to put his head down and drive. Jump shooting has so much to do with confidence and comfort. If you don't think you're gonna make a shot, but shoot it anyways, the chances of it going in are probably not very high.
 

I agree with your point, but what if he pulled up from 15 and drained it? No better way to develop confidence. If they are giving it to him, I'd like to see him try 1-2 a game. Every time he goes baseline, they let him go and seal it off. Pull up young man. At the very worst, a big is out of rebounding position because he's sealing the baseline.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Agree 100%. Tubby has shown some flexibility with his starting lineup (except for refusing to start EE over Ralph), and now's probably a good time to put Andre back in the starting lineup. He's earned it with his play, just as Joe did a while back. Joe appears to be a confident kid, he's not going to go into a shell if he loses his starting spot. Clearly Andre has gained confidence, and Joe has lost some of his. Just flip-flop 'em in turns of who starts.
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I'm not too worried about who is starting. I just wish EE would get 18+ minutes a game. Maybe he will once his ankle is 100%.
 

point guard 10 said:
Do we really want our two best point guards on the court at the same time? I agree that Dre deserves to start, but...
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It can be done. Play both 30 minutes a game: 20 minutes together and 10 each without the other on the court. That way at least one is on the floor at all times but they both get 5 minutes of rest per half.
 

balds said:
I agree with your point, but what if he pulled up from 15 and drained it? No better way to develop confidence. If they are giving it to him, I'd like to see him try 1-2 a game. Every time he goes baseline, they let him go and seal it off. Pull up young man. At the very worst, a big is out of rebounding position because he's sealing the baseline.
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Touché. There's definitely no better confidence booster, but the only reason I shy away from what you suggest is because of the importance of this final stretch of games for our program. I guess my stance is comparable to what Bardo said after Rodney took a somewhat ill-advised 3 last night. It was something along the lines of "Utilize your strengths during games, use practices and the offseason for developing other parts of your game." I'm certainly not trying to argue with you about it (it's not like we're Coleman's coaches anyways), I'm just worried about getting the most out of each possession from here on out this season. Of course, if Coleman knocks down one in these next few games, he might feel that confidence and knock down 10. So I can appreciate your point.

Joe's offensive strengths are a little one-dimensional right now, but I can't wait to see his jumper develop over the next couple years. I expect him to work heavily on spot shooting and pulling up off the dribble. Once he adds those to his arsenal, he'll be more than a handful for his opponents.
 

920/414 Gopher said:
Touché. There's definitely no better confidence booster, but the only reason I shy away from what you suggest is because of the importance of this final stretch of games for our program. I guess my stance is comparable to what Bardo said after Rodney took a somewhat ill-advised 3 last night. It was something along the lines of "Utilize your strengths during games, use practices and the offseason for developing other parts of your game." I'm certainly not trying to argue with you about it (it's not like we're Coleman's coaches anyways), I'm just worried about getting the most out of each possession from here on out this season. Of course, if Coleman knocks down one in these next few games, he might feel that confidence and knock down 10. So I can appreciate your point.

Joe's offensive strengths are a little one-dimensional right now, but I can't wait to see his jumper develop over the next couple years. I expect him to work heavily on spot shooting and pulling up off the dribble. Once he adds those to his arsenal, he'll be more than a handful for his opponents.
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+1
 

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