America’s Unequal Economic Recovery



MplsGopher

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The two bar/restaurants closest to my house - one a small franchise and the other independent - both received significant government assistance. They are both small businesses. Both had to close their bar/dining. Both are thriving today.
Bars and restaurants constantly turnover *naturally*. That's normal for them, in good economies.
 


GopherJake

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Bars and restaurants constantly turnover *naturally*. That's normal for them, in good economies.
Yep. I know a few that didn't make it. They were run poorly and quite likely weren't smart enough to figure out how to take advantage of the programs offered. Those programs weren't perfect, but they were available. Smart small business owners adapted and survived - and some even thrived. Then came back stronger. Dumb small business owners failed - as many of them were destined to do anyway.
 


Spoofin

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Yep. I know a few that didn't make it. They were run poorly and quite likely weren't smart enough to figure out how to take advantage of the programs offered. Those programs weren't perfect, but they were available. Smart small business owners adapted and survived - and some even thrived. Then came back stronger. Dumb small business owners failed - as many of them were destined to do anyway.
The above post is complete and total nonsense. Based on zero fact what-so-ever.

Covid-19’s Toll on U.S. Business? 200,000 Extra Closures in Pandemic’s First Year​


As of this week, the Tracker showed there were 37.5% fewer small businesses open nationwide compared with January 2020, two months before the pandemic hit the United States.
 

GopherJake

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The above post is complete and total nonsense. Based on zero fact what-so-ever.

Covid-19’s Toll on U.S. Business? 200,000 Extra Closures in Pandemic’s First Year​


As of this week, the Tracker showed there were 37.5% fewer small businesses open nationwide compared with January 2020, two months before the pandemic hit the United States.
Sure, I didn't argue that it didn't hasten the closing of businesses. That 200,000 number isn't all that alarming to me. What I will grant you is that there was a failure to support small businesses by allowing them to remain open, a la the larger outlets, like Target, Home Depot, etc. I can't - and won't - defend that. But that wasn't *that* long-lived. And most businesses had the opportunity (not necessarily the capability) to adapt (e.g., ramp up take-out, curbside pickup). Smart businesses adapted and/or re-opened. While it is sad to see some businesses go by the wayside and there were miscalculations, etc., it's not quite as cut-and-dried as you make it out to be.

Indeed, the sub-headline and very first sentence of the first article you posted:

"Federal Reserve economists suggest small-business failures due to coronavirus pandemic were fewer than some predicted"

"The economic toll from the Covid-19 pandemic has been tough to measure, but new estimates from the Federal Reserve suggest it wasn’t as bad as feared for smaller businesses."

And a quote from thesecond:

"A recent Federal Reserve Board study found more businesses than expected reopened after initially shutting down."
 

Spoofin

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Sure, I didn't argue that it didn't hasten the closing of businesses. That 200,000 number isn't all that alarming to me. What I will grant you is that there was a failure to support small businesses by allowing them to remain open, a la the larger outlets, like Target, Home Depot, etc. I can't - and won't - defend that. But that wasn't *that* long-lived. And most businesses had the opportunity (not necessarily the capability) to adapt (e.g., ramp up take-out, curbside pickup). Smart businesses adapted and/or re-opened. While it is sad to see some businesses go by the wayside and there were miscalculations, etc., it's not quite as cut-and-dried as you make it out to be.

Indeed, the sub-headline and very first sentence of the first article you posted:

"Federal Reserve economists suggest small-business failures due to coronavirus pandemic were fewer than some predicted"

"The economic toll from the Covid-19 pandemic has been tough to measure, but new estimates from the Federal Reserve suggest it wasn’t as bad as feared for smaller businesses."

And a quote from thesecond:

"A recent Federal Reserve Board study found more businesses than expected reopened after initially shutting down."
As "cut and dried" as I make it? This is the post I responded to:
Yep. I know a few that didn't make it. They were run poorly and quite likely weren't smart enough to figure out how to take advantage of the programs offered. Those programs weren't perfect, but they were available. Smart small business owners adapted and survived - and some even thrived. Then came back stronger. Dumb small business owners failed - as many of them were destined to do anyway.
As for your quotes - "not as bad as feared" and "fewer than predicted" doesn't really make a strong point.
 

GopherJake

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As "cut and dried" as I make it? This is the post I responded to:
You don't think that's what happened? Have you ever run a business? If you aren't smart (or timely or lucky), you struggle. Then when a wrench is thrown into the works, you die. It's not that complicated.

As for your quotes - "not as bad as feared" and "fewer than predicted" doesn't really make a strong point.
Um, ok. Those numbers don't alarm me and experts are saying it wasn't as bad as - apparently - you think. And, they are coming back faster than - apparently - you think. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. But my argument isn't nonsense. Maybe my tolerance is higher.
 



Spoofin

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You don't think that's what happened? Have you ever run a business? If you aren't smart (or timely or lucky), you struggle. Then when a wrench is thrown into the works, you die. It's not that complicated.


Um, ok. Those numbers don't alarm me and experts are saying it wasn't as bad as - apparently - you think. And, they are coming back faster than - apparently - you think. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. But my argument isn't nonsense. Maybe my tolerance is higher.
Two Corrections:
- The numbers weren't as bad as - apparently - the experts predicted. I made no predictions.
- I didn't say your statement was nonsense. I said it was complete and total nonsense.
 

GopherJake

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Two Corrections:
- The numbers weren't as bad as - apparently - the experts predicted. I made no predictions.
- I didn't say your statement was nonsense. I said it was complete and total nonsense.
Yeah, we're done here. Have a discussion sometime, instead of being a jackass. Not everything has to be a fight, even if you disagree. It's pretty obvious where you stand here. I took no leaps. And don't get angry when your own evidence is used against your argument. Vet it better.
 

Spoofin

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Yeah, we're done here. Have a discussion sometime, instead of being a jackass. Not everything has to be a fight, even if you disagree. It's pretty obvious where you stand here. I took no leaps. And don't get angry when your own evidence is used against your argument. Vet it better.
LOL. I responded to your statement that "smart small business owners survived and dumb small business owners failed" and from that it is "pretty obvious where I stand" and you "took no leaps". Sure thing. Every response you have made since my reply has been a leap. "Used against my argument" :rolleyes:
 

MplsGopher

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The above post is complete and total nonsense. Based on zero fact what-so-ever.

Covid-19’s Toll on U.S. Business? 200,000 Extra Closures in Pandemic’s First Year​


As of this week, the Tracker showed there were 37.5% fewer small businesses open nationwide compared with January 2020, two months before the pandemic hit the United States.
Indeed, a deadly pandemic tends to wipe out a lot of consumer demand to shop at small businesses.

So?
 



MplsGopher

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And then there's, you know, just plain old capitalism-driven fraud to explain price increases (gouging):

Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is suing Sparboe Farms, alleging the Litchfield-based egg producer gouged consumers during the pandemic's initial food-buying frenzy.

Sparboe is firing back, asserting the attorney general's office either doesn't understand how the industry operates or is mistakenly blaming it for forces outside the company's control.

It's the latest in a string of lawsuits brought against egg producers by state attorneys general, all making similar claims of price gouging during the pandemic's early days. None of the suits have yet led to a guilty verdict.

The state alleges Sparboe violated Gov. Tim Walz's executive order that prohibited companies from raising prices on essential goods above 20% of what they cost in the 30 days prior.

From early March to early April, Sparboe's egg prices rose roughly 200% from less than $1 a dozen to nearly $3 a dozen, the suit notes.

Sparboe says the prices it charges wholesale and retail customers are — and have been for decades — tied to a market index of prevailing prices, as reported by business publication Urner Barry.
 

Wally

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Currently, a federal estate tax of 40% applies to estates above $11.7 million for single filers and to estates above $23.4 million for joint filers. Some states also impose additional estate taxes.

As the exemption has progressively increased in the last 20 years, the number of estates paying the tax has drastically decreased. In 2020, 1,900 taxable returns were subject to estate tax, down from 50,500 in 2001, according to data from the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. If the Democrats' proposal is enacted, the number of returns subject to the tax will return to 2017 levels or around 5,500, according to Jacoby.

The per-person exemption was $675,000 in 2001, but is $11.7 million in 2021. The last time the exemption was increased — which lowers the number of estates subjected to the tax — was in 2017 when it was nearly doubled by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act under the Trump administration.

Raise it up, no free money welfare for for spoiled rich kids.
 

Spoofin

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Currently, a federal estate tax of 40% applies to estates above $11.7 million for single filers and to estates above $23.4 million for joint filers. Some states also impose additional estate taxes.

As the exemption has progressively increased in the last 20 years, the number of estates paying the tax has drastically decreased. In 2020, 1,900 taxable returns were subject to estate tax, down from 50,500 in 2001, according to data from the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. If the Democrats' proposal is enacted, the number of returns subject to the tax will return to 2017 levels or around 5,500, according to Jacoby.

The per-person exemption was $675,000 in 2001, but is $11.7 million in 2021. The last time the exemption was increased — which lowers the number of estates subjected to the tax — was in 2017 when it was nearly doubled by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act under the Trump administration.

Raise it up, no free money welfare for for spoiled rich kids.
Estate taxes are one of the dumbest things we do. The idea that someone dying is another opportunity to tax them is insane. I'm not surprised in the least that the Ds want to profit off of more deaths. It's such a missed opportunity :rolleyes: .
 

Section2

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The problem, Wally, is that this restaurant isn’t the only place that has raised their prices. What you and Broke don’t seem capable of grasping is everyone has. Those “servant’s” food cost more no matter where they buy it. So does everything they buy. Simple minds see this post and can’t grasp that overall nothing is better for those “servants”. I linked you a Bloomberg study. It’s way too logical for you and Broke to get tho.🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
Workers have to buy food and products as well. If the progs are satisfied now, great, just please stop whining.
 

Wally

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Estate taxes are one of the dumbest things we do. The idea that someone dying is another opportunity to tax them is insane. I'm not surprised in the least that the Ds want to profit off of more deaths. It's such a missed opportunity :rolleyes: .
Dumbest take ever, how does it matter if you're dead. Only matters to greedy worthless pos family members.


Bring back Kings and Royal families according to Spoof.
Wow
 

Wally

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Estate taxes are one of the dumbest things we do. The idea that someone dying is another opportunity to tax them is insane. I'm not surprised in the least that the Ds want to profit off of more deaths. It's such a missed opportunity :rolleyes: .
Do you have your parents money spent yet?
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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Estate taxes are one of the dumbest things we do. The idea that someone dying is another opportunity to tax them is insane. I'm not surprised in the least that the Ds want to profit off of more deaths. It's such a missed opportunity :rolleyes: .
Makes about as much sense as "Payroll Tax". Sooooooo, I get taxed on all company revenues, I get taxed on my own salary, all of my employees get taxed with income tax on all their earnings, and the COMPANY pays something called "Payroll Tax". WTF.... Payroll tax. If you pitched that as an idea in a group setting you would get laughed out of the room
 

Spoofin

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Dumbest take ever, how does it matter if you're dead. Only matters to greedy worthless pos family members.


Bring back Kings and Royal families according to Spoof.
Wow
No, this is the dumbest take ever. Honestly. Doesn’t matter if I’m dead? Not only dumb, but also stupid. Hey Wally, you don’t have to give your kids sh!t. Your money - you choose what to do with it. The idea that the Gov’t should tax my kids on money I already paid tax on and gave to them at my death is absurd. You libs just hate successful people. We gotta knock them down!!!
Do you have your parents money spent yet?
What an idiot. I grew up (and still live) very modest. There isn’t much that I will get and likely not much I will be able to give. That isn’t the point - I don’t believe in penalizing people for being successful. It isn’t about me dumbass.
 

Spoofin

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Makes about as much sense as "Payroll Tax". Sooooooo, I get taxed on all company revenues, I get taxed on my own salary, all of my employees get taxed with income tax on all their earnings, and the COMPANY pays something called "Payroll Tax". WTF.... Payroll tax. If you pitched that as an idea in a group setting you would get laughed out of the room
Gov’t will never have enough. Never!
 

Wally

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What an idiot. I grew up (and still live) very modest. There isn’t much that I will get and likely not much I will be able to give. That isn’t the point - I don’t believe in penalizing people for being successful. It isn’t about me dumbass.
That's where your the idiot.

Yea, I sure they would have been just as successful if they were born in Afghanistan. They owe this country nothing.

So selfish and greedy...
 

FormerFatOL

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Estate taxes are only a convenient political talking point. Almost no one pays a significant amount ($22 billion total - a tiny fraction of taxes collected). There are oodles of loopholes that Congress leaves available cuz they're all rich, or are in the process of becoming rich on grift. Whole industries exist to avoid estate taxes. The Dems crow about increasing estate taxes while leaving in loopholes everywhere while Repubs use it as a "death tax" grievance issue. All meaningless and a waste of time. I can't believe I even spent this much time posting about it.
 

Wally

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Estate taxes are only a convenient political talking point. Almost no one pays a significant amount ($22 billion total - a tiny fraction of taxes collected). There are oodles of loopholes that Congress leaves available cuz they're all rich, or are in the process of becoming rich on grift. Whole industries exist to avoid estate taxes. The Dems crow about increasing estate taxes while leaving in loopholes everywhere while Repubs use it as a "death tax" grievance issue. All meaningless and a waste of time. I can't believe I even spent this much time posting about it.
That doesn't mean they aren't good for society.

I would like to see the tax code simplified and those loopholes gotten rid of.

Why not just tax any money someone gets at the same rate.
Why is daddy giving you money tax favored over your employer paying you for work? Makes no sense, all money gets taxed over and over and over, that's the dumbest argument.

Why does the company that does my roof have to pay tax on the money I pay them?
I already paid tax on it. Righty logic...🙄
 


Spoofin

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That doesn't mean they aren't good for society.

I would like to see the tax code simplified and those loopholes gotten rid of.

Why not just tax any money someone gets at the same rate.
Why is daddy giving you money tax favored over your employer paying you for work? Makes no sense, all money gets taxed over and over and over, that's the dumbest argument.

Why does the company that does my roof have to pay tax on the money I pay them?
I already paid tax on it. Righty logic...🙄
IIRC, you would like to see a 100% estate tax above $1M.

All money gets taxed over and over. What's one more time? Who cares that there was no transaction like your roof example. You think at a 3rd grade level - just above your english skills. ;)
 

Wally

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IIRC, you would like to see a 100% estate tax above $1M.

All money gets taxed over and over. What's one more time? Who cares that there was no transaction like your roof example. You think at a 3rd grade level - just above your english skills. ;)
I do want that.

It won't happen.
Why not tax all money the same?

Why is daddies money more special than the money from my employer?

I personally think money you did nothing for and are in no way of "deserving thru your own merit" should be taxed higher.

Yea that's insane crazy talk, according to the idiots who are up in arms about people getting $300.
Sickening
 

Spoofin

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I do want that.

It won't happen.
Why not tax all money the same?

Why is daddies money more special than the money from my employer?

I personally think money you did nothing for and are in no way of "deserving thru your own merit" should be taxed higher.

Yea that's insane crazy talk, according to the idiots who are up in arms about people getting $300.
Sickening
Sickening. LOL. That $300 didn't cause any harm at all...... :rolleyes:
 





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