Always interesting to read what others think about TCF

Schnauzer

Pretty Sure You are Wrong
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It is always interesting to see what others write in their discussions about TCF. I know we have beat this to death but the overall ignorance of southern MN weather continues to amaze me. Perhaps it is because I am a Geography minor but how can we expect people in the southern US to 'get it' if our brothers in Michigan can't even figure it out. I have said this a million times but people around the US just watch the weather, see the low temps in International Falls/Embarrass/Tower/etc. and think to themselves: "Wow it is cold in Minneapolis."

A while back I went as far as to research average highs/low/precip for each Big 10 city over a few different time periods (posted it on a thread here at the Gopher Hole) during the football season. Amazingly, not only was Madison and Ann Arbor nearly identical to Minneapolis, but Minneapolis actually had a bit higher average highs for a portion of October compared to Ann Arbor. And, what stuck out even more was the fact the precip during the football season was lower in Minneapolis than ANY other Big 10 town. The point made then was "Would you rather be in 38 degree weather and wet, or 34 degrees and dry?"

Anyway, the climate ignorance continues to amaze me but it is always interesting to see what others think about the new stadium (some very nice comments in the following discussion)...

http://umgoblue.com/aspplay/Pictures-of-Minnesota39s-TCF-Bank-Stadium-m93860.aspx
 


Ok, you got me started. It REALLY makes me laugh when people in Wisconsin, Iowa or Michigan ask how are the Gophs going to get recruits to come play in the cold. I can maybe understand it when a kid from Texas says it but to hear Wisky fans say it. Do they not realize what the weather is like where they live?

I have to stop before I really get going.
 

Ha! Pretty funny. I get a feeling you've got more where that came from. But, of course you are very much preaching to the choir.
 

It is always interesting to see what others write in their discussions about TCF. I know we have beat this to death but the overall ignorance of southern MN weather continues to amaze me. Perhaps it is because I am a Geography minor but how can we expect people in the southern US to 'get it' if our brothers in Michigan can't even figure it out. I have said this a million times but people around the US just watch the weather, see the low temps in International Falls/Embarrass/Tower/etc. and think to themselves: "Wow it is cold in Minneapolis."

A while back I went as far as to research average highs/low/precip for each Big 10 city over a few different time periods (posted it on a thread here at the Gopher Hole) during the football season. Amazingly, not only was Madison and Ann Arbor nearly identical to Minneapolis, but Minneapolis actually had a bit higher average highs for a portion of October compared to Ann Arbor. And, what stuck out even more was the fact the precip during the football season was lower in Minneapolis than ANY other Big 10 town. The point made then was "Would you rather be in 38 degree weather and wet, or 34 degrees and dry?"

Anyway, the climate ignorance continues to amaze me but it is always interesting to see what others think about the new stadium (some very nice comments in the following discussion)...

http://umgoblue.com/aspplay/Pictures-of-Minnesota39s-TCF-Bank-Stadium-m93860.aspx

i have also read almost nothing but postive reviews of the new stadium on the following big ten message boards: penn state, ohio state, michigan.

hmmmm......fans of what are considered three of the top programs in the entire country (let alone the big ten) think nothing but good things in regards to tcf bank stadium and also believe its opening will be nothing but a positive step for the direction of the gopher football program.

meanwhile, the only d-bags who can't seem to figure that out are......you guessed it.....ioweeee hogeye fans and becky badger fans. i know not a big surprise there.

their angst, cheap-shots and general hang-wringing about the opening of a world-class facility like tcf bank stadium for the gopher football program SPEAKS VOLUMES!!
 


I once drove from Walker, MN where it was mid 40s, and by the time I got to St. Cloud it was mid 70s. Minnesota has some funky temperature differences people just don't get.
 

Mostly very gracious comments, the idiots talking about recruiting in the cold??? My god some people are just f'ing stupid, if they make the comment and live in TX, fine, but when you live in Ann Arbor??? Christ there are some truely ignorant people out there.
 

It is always interesting to see what others write in their discussions about TCF. I know we have beat this to death but the overall ignorance of southern MN weather continues to amaze me. Perhaps it is because I am a Geography minor but how can we expect people in the southern US to 'get it' if our brothers in Michigan can't even figure it out. I have said this a million times but people around the US just watch the weather, see the low temps in International Falls/Embarrass/Tower/etc. and think to themselves: "Wow it is cold in Minneapolis."

Where do you get the idea that International Falls is cold?

According to Weather.com, the average November temperature in International Falls is 24.5 degrees, compared to an average November temperature of 32.5 in Minneapolis. This is a difference of only 8 degrees. For comparison, the average November temperature in Ann Arbor (again, per weather.com) is 39.5, or 7 degrees warmer than Minneapolis.

Carrying over beyond football season to January, the average temperature is 23.5 in Ann Arbor, 13 in Minneapolis, and only 3 degrees in International Falls. This means International Falls averages 10 degrees colder than Minneapolis in the coldest month, but then Minneapolis is 10.5 degrees colder than Ann Arbor in the same period.

Extremes? According to weather.com, International Falls' coldest-ever temperature was -55 degrees. This is fully 14 degrees colder than Minneapolis' record low of -41. Then again, that's fully 19 degrees colder than Ann Arbor's lowest-ever temperature of -22.

Clearly, if the people in Ann Arbor have no right to call Minneapolis cold, a Minneapolitan has no right to call International Falls cold.

Better yet, we could just embrace the perception of cold to give our program a little much-needed character. Our team does, after all, play in literally the coldest venue in NCAA division 1 football, colder in November than NFL cities like Pittsburgh and Boston are in December. I think that's pretty cool (so to speak).
 

Well Mr. Ground squirrel, let me elaborate. I think you only partially understood the weather points and you posted some general things that actually in part further my point.

FIRST... the general weather differences have already been covered here (check it out):
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?t=6366
You posted average November temps but it is more accurate to look at averages for the last possible home game date (Minnesota temps dives quickly in late Nov. through Dec.). You actually furthered my point by stating that Ann Arbor weather was about as close to Mpls as Mpls is to International Falls. Again, you used November averages which are misleading but to indulge you, let's go with that. Now, you missed the all important comparison... Intl falls to Ann Arbor. Yikes! You also made the biggest mistake... bringing December and January climate (outside of football season) into the picture. No argument there. What is a minute climate difference in October and November does turn into a more obvious one during the heart of the winter.

SECOND... You selected Intl Falls and pulled weather data but in doing so you missed my main point... outsiders make a note of the low temps in MINNESOTA (regardless if they are in Tower, Intl. Falls, Longville, etc.) and assume that is what it is like here state wide. Daily highs and lows are often far more dramatic in terms of differences than monthly averages. Expand it to multiple towns in N. MINN and it really opens the door to regional misunderstandings. Trust me, with a family cabin in N. MINN, I look at the weather in comparison every day and I can tell you it is often dramatic. This early June, I left Ely with temps in the mid 40's and by the time I hit Forest Lake it was 80. This happens a lot.

THIRD: Think of the local flora and fauna in these three cities: International Falls, Minneapolis, and Ann Arbor. Now think of them in a child's "which one doesn't belong" picture. Which one would you remove? If you don't say International Falls, I challenge you to find all the moose in the woods around the Twin Cities.

And FINALLY: You did not mention precip at all. The attached link above does have precip averages included and Minneapolis stacks up as the "best" Big 10 town in terms of being able to watch a game rain free. Nowhere do I say the fall weather is better here than anywhwere else. My point is the differences are small enough to make it all a non-starter in terms of recruiting compared to other Big 10 Schools. And, when you factor in precip... I would actually put the Twin Cities somewhere in the middle of a scale that is very close, from top to bottom in terms of football season weather comfort. That is the WHOLE point, and the amazement is over ignorant fans from other Big 10 schools who think it is perma-frost tundra here.
 




You also made the biggest mistake... bringing December and January climate (outside of football season) into the picture. No argument there. What is a minute climate difference in October and November does turn into a more obvious one during the heart of the winter.

Schnauzer, I realize that you mean well by keeping the focus on football. However, the kids will also be students at whichever schools they go to. I guarantee that walking to and from class every day in the cold of Mpls weighs more on these kids minds than seven days outside for the football team. Classes do run at all these schools in Dec. and Jan. And they will be out in it. Those temperatures of those other months most definitely matter.
 

Fair enough. No argument there. I was keeping it focused on football because the comments that really set me off are the "Can't have recruits visit for November games" or "have fun attending games in November" mularky.

You are correct... the climate difference is much more pronounced in December through February and players would most certainly be living here during those months - and that is a consideration. But, that consideration is no different than when the Gophers played in the Metrodome. The whole point of this is the move outside to TCF and the perception elsewhere that all the players and fans will be shivering much more here than they already are in Madison, Iowa City, or East Lansing.
 

Lets be honest, players that come to Minnesota are concerned about the team and by association, gameday temperatures, not how cold it will be in january.
 



Fair enough. No argument there. I was keeping it focused on football because the comments that really set me off are the "Can't have recruits visit for November games" or "have fun attending games in November" mularky.

You are correct... the climate difference is much more pronounced in December through February and players would most certainly be living here during those months - and that is a consideration. But, that consideration is no different than when the Gophers played in the Metrodome. The whole point of this is the move outside to TCF and the perception elsewhere that all the players and fans will be shivering much more here than they already are in Madison, Iowa City, or East Lansing.

Yup. I gotchya. :)
 

It is always interesting to see what others write in their discussions about TCF. I know we have beat this to death but the overall ignorance of southern MN weather continues to amaze me. Perhaps it is because I am a Geography minor but how can we expect people in the southern US to 'get it' if our brothers in Michigan can't even figure it out. I have said this a million times but people around the US just watch the weather, see the low temps in International Falls/Embarrass/Tower/etc. and think to themselves: "Wow it is cold in Minneapolis."

A while back I went as far as to research average highs/low/precip for each Big 10 city over a few different time periods (posted it on a thread here at the Gopher Hole) during the football season. Amazingly, not only was Madison and Ann Arbor nearly identical to Minneapolis, but Minneapolis actually had a bit higher average highs for a portion of October compared to Ann Arbor. And, what stuck out even more was the fact the precip during the football season was lower in Minneapolis than ANY other Big 10 town. The point made then was "Would you rather be in 38 degree weather and wet, or 34 degrees and dry?"

Anyway, the climate ignorance continues to amaze me but it is always interesting to see what others think about the new stadium (some very nice comments in the following discussion)...

http://umgoblue.com/aspplay/Pictures-of-Minnesota39s-TCF-Bank-Stadium-m93860.aspx

Schnauzer - I hope you will, if you haven't already, send this to Brew. This is the kind of killer info Brew needs to beat back the misconceptions other coaches spread about Minnesota football.
 

Again, you used November averages which are misleading but to indulge you, let's go with that. Now, you missed the all important comparison... Intl falls to Ann Arbor. Yikes!

How is using November temperatures misleading? I don't think anyone is proposing that an early September game in Minneapolis is going to be cold.

SECOND... You selected Intl Falls and pulled weather data but in doing so you missed my main point... outsiders make a note of the low temps in MINNESOTA (regardless if they are in Tower, Intl. Falls, Longville, etc.) and assume that is what it is like here state wide. Daily highs and lows are often far more dramatic in terms of differences than monthly averages. Expand it to multiple towns in N. MINN and it really opens the door to regional misunderstandings. Trust me, with a family cabin in N. MINN, I look at the weather in comparison every day and I can tell you it is often dramatic. This early June, I left Ely with temps in the mid 40's and by the time I hit Forest Lake it was 80. This happens a lot.

Temperatures change over the course of the day, and I doubt that it was still mid-40s in Ely by the time you pulled into Forest Lake. Beside that, any days of extreme variation are accounted-for in the averages, which show that, by your own standards, Northern Minnesota isn't much colder than Minneapolis.

As a former resident of Northern Minnesota, it irks me when Minneapolitans have a skewed idea of Northern Minnesota's weather.

I recall a guy called LAKESBISON posting on this board before the Gopher/NDSU games a few years ago. Several posters ribbed him about how cold Fargo is, in spite of the fact that Fargo averages only about 5 degrees colder than Minneapolis throughout the winter. Of course, fans of teams in places 5 degrees warmer than Minneapolis will do the same thing. It's to be expected.

...kind of like Minnesotans making fun of Iowa for being the number-one hog farming state in the union, even though their own state is the number-three hog farming state in the union.;)

Think of the local flora and fauna in these three cities: International Falls, Minneapolis, and Ann Arbor. Now think of them in a child's "which one doesn't belong" picture. Which one would you remove? If you don't say International Falls, I challenge you to find all the moose in the woods around the Twin Cities.


Moose Spotted on Medina Golf Course

Minneapolis Star Tribune 11/17/01 Terry Collins

A moose on the loose in the western suburbs has been spotted again, this time trotting through the fairways.
The bull moose was seen Friday on the golf course in Baker Regional Park in Medina, startling several golfers playing a few rounds in the unseasonably warm weather.

"It came on the fairway and ran through the woods," said Medina police officer Jeremy Christenson.

Last month a bull moose was seen in residential areas of Maple Grove.

A regional wildlife supervisor with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) said moose sightings are common this time of year, which is mating season for the animals. As long as they're left alone, they don't usually create problems, the supervisor said.

Christenson said it could very well be that the same moose has made its way southwest.

"They get off course every now and then," he said, before offering a piece of advice: "Enjoy it from a distance."

Hench adds: "They get off course every now and then," Damn, I'm off the course ALL the time, Mooses must be good golfers! "...startling several golfers playing...." Must be one of those 300+ yard drives Moose are famous for running up on them. My advice: Let Moose play through!

The Minneapolis flora are mostly paved and the fauna are mostly homeless people, so there's not much to compare. Before the area became populated, I'd imagine it was mostly prairie, so the flora and fauna would be different than those wooded International Falls regardless of temperature. I'd bet they would have been similar to the grassland of NW MN, though.

You did not mention precip at all.

Can't argue that. It's pretty dry.

That is the WHOLE point, and the amazement is over ignorant fans from other Big 10 schools who think it is perma-frost tundra here.

We're both Gopher fans, and ultimately on the same side. I just approach the perception differently as a fan.

The idea of Minneapolis as a frozen tundra should be encouraged in enemy fan-bases. Opposing players and fans who expect to feel cold will feel cold, even if it's only a few degrees different than what they feel at home. To bring up an NFL comparison, Packer fans don't stress themselves out trying to prove that Green Bay isn't much colder than Chicago , instead they embrace the cold and the perception of cold and let it become a part of their team's identity.

Let Brewster deal with recruits. He's already mastered his double-talk spiel, claiming that Minneapolis isn't any colder than Chicago or Ann Arbor, then in his next utterance saying that we'll use the cold to our advantage.

"Talk of the weather in Minnesota is overblown," Brewster scoffed. "It's no colder in Minnesota than it is in Chicago or Ann Arbor or Columbus, but nobody talks about those places being cold. We're going to practice outdoors and embrace [playing] outdoors and use the elements to our advantage."​
 

The Green Bay example is a terrible analogy. In professional sports, the players don't have a choice where they go. If you are drafted by Green Bay you play in Green Bay no matter how opposed you are to the cold. In College sports if you don't want to play in weather colder than Texas or Florida, you can choose a different school. I think it is essential that we try to debunk the perception that Minnesota is colder than any other B10 school, even if that idea gives us a unique identity.
 

The Green Bay example is a terrible analogy. In professional sports, the players don't have a choice where they go.

Yes they do. Draft picks hold out frequently and free agents go where they please.

I don't think any recruits who are shy of the cold will be signing a letter of intent with literally the coldest Division 1 university in literally the coldest metropolitan area in the US. If they did, they'd transfer to South Florida after their first January hike to class.

Fortunately, I think you're overestimating the effect of messageboard chatter on recruits.
 

Yes they do. Draft picks hold out frequently and free agents go where they please.

I don't think any recruits who are shy of the cold will be signing a letter of intent with literally the coldest Division 1 university in literally the coldest metropolitan area in the US. If they did, they'd transfer to South Florida after their first January hike to class.

Fortunately, I think you're overestimating the effect of messageboard chatter on recruits.


blah, blah, blah. sure buddy. that is why brewster is having very few problems when it comes to signing recruits from texas, louisiana, florida, etc.

suggestion: start dropping some posts where you are not TRYING to be a complete tool.

are you sure you are not lakesbison himself? or wait....maybe another incarnation of pantherhawk? wren? loon? you seem to have characteristics of all of them so i am having a hard time pin-pointing which one you may be!
 

How is using November temperatures misleading? I don't think anyone is proposing that an early September game in Minneapolis is going to be cold.

I didn't say that. I said using November AVERAGES (for the whole month) is misleading because it includes a two week period where no football is played, and accounts for a severe local drop in temps that does reflect a more salient difference than other Big 10 schools. That is why I suggested using average high/low for the last day of the season. That is the reason why.



As a former resident of Northern Minnesota, it irks me when Minneapolitans have a skewed idea of Northern Minnesota's weather.

'nuff said. I think this says it all. It also explains why you turned a discussion about Big 10 game day weather into into "It is just as warm in International Falls as it is in Minneapolis." I suggest you send a letter to the editor for the I. Falls paper to have them take down that "nation's ice box" sign.

I'd be happy to compare ice out dates, and other climate clues that distinguish the climate difference between northern and southern Minnesota... BUT THAT ISN'T THE POINT.

The only reason why I mentioned northern Minnesota at all is because it often is quite a bit colder somewhere (not just one town, where averages for any given date may be similar) there and ignorant people from other parts of the US can't distinguish between what they see for MINNEsota and MINNeapolis. Even the pro sports teams here are named after the state so collectively people don't distinguish between the city and the state the same way they do for, say, Cincinnati in Ohio.
 

blah, blah, blah. sure buddy. that is why brewster is having very few problems when it comes to signing recruits from texas, louisiana, florida, etc.

suggestion: start dropping some posts where you are not TRYING to be a complete tool.

I would suspect that none of them are shy of the cold, and that's why they signed here. If they were afraid of cold, they would have stayed South. That's the point.

Minneapolis is the coldest major metro area in the United States. Feel free to refute.

I would imagine that Minneapolis is the single coldest venue of all 120 teams in D1 football. Again, feel free to refute.


suggestion: rather than telling someone with whom you disagree not to post, improve your ability to argue a point. Schnauzer brings something to the discussion, whereas you offer nothing.
 

I didn't say that. I said using November AVERAGES (for the whole month) is misleading because it includes a two week period where no football is played, and accounts for a severe local drop in temps that does reflect a more salient difference than other Big 10 schools. That is why I suggested using average high/low for the last day of the season. That is the reason why.


The Gophers have a home game on Nov 27th next year. If the schedule is ever extended by a game as some have proposed, we could end up with home games in early December.
 




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