All Things Trump /GOP Coup

Wally

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even if they did, without proving their case in court, the American public would never allow it. The whole country would have been on fire with riots. It would take resistance to a whole new level. It is just not possible.

Probably true. And that wouldn't be good for anyone's pocketbooks.
 

Section2

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Probably true. And that wouldn't be good for anyone's pocketbooks.
There is one option. Prove it in court. I doubt even a majority of Trump voters would disagree.
It’s nice to paint half the country as insurrectionists and seditionists. It makes you feel morally superior and think the worst of them.
 



Go4Broke

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High-ranking Capitol Police officer, who was also a vocal Donald Trump supporter, told those under his command not to wear riot gear on January 6

An unidentified Capitol Police lieutenant emailed the tip line to say the supervising officer in question "may have assisted the insurrection attempts through passive action." The lieutenant said the officer had "been rather vocal in the past about his support for Trump, but little was thought of it until the ... examples I observed." Specifically, the lieutenant detailed how other squads wore Civil Disturbance Unit "hard gear," but the officer at the center of the complaint told his squad not to wear theirs. The lieutenant believed the decision "resulted in one or more officers being sent to the hospital."

The tipster also described the high-ranking officer leaning against a wall, taking no action, as other officers tried to hold back the mob. It's unclear what investigators concluded in the case or if any disciplinary action was recommended. This spring, the Capitol Police inspector general told Congress that an order to hold back heavy riot-control weapons left the department at a grave disadvantage fighting the mob.

Last weekend, Capitol Police announced that disciplinary action had been recommended against officers in six cases. The department said the US Attorney's office concluded there was not enough evidence to charge any of the officers, but several have been slapped with violations ranging from conduct unbecoming to failure to comply with directives and improper remarks.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/poli...icers-concerns-january-6-documents/index.html
 


Wally

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Georgia GOP Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan: 'Hate poured in' after I said 'President-elect Biden' on television

  • In a new book, Republican Geoff Duncan says he was targeted after refuting Trump's election claims.
  • After Duncan referred to Biden as the president-elect, he was inundated with hateful messages.

He added: "I felt at odds with this new prevailing dynamic. I felt like a stranger. Who was this party? Why did it seem to literally worship the president? What was it doing to the bedrock of our democratic republic? What would it do to me?"

 






Go4Broke

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Trump lawyer's six-step plan for Pence to overturn the election


PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL

January 6 Scenario

7 states have transmitted dual slates of electors to the President of the Senate.

The 12th Amendment merely provides that “the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” There is very solid legal authority, and historical precedent, for the view that the President of the Senate does the counting, including the resolution of disputed electoral votes (as Adams and Jefferson did while Vice President, regarding their own election as President), and all the Members of Congress can do is watch.

The Electoral Count Act, which is likely unconstitutional, provides:

If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State;

but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law;

and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State.

But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted.

This is the piece that we believe is unconstitutional. It allows the two houses, “acting separately,” to decide the question, whereas the 12th Amendment provides only for a joint session. And if there is disagreement, under the Act the slate certified by the “executive” of the state is to be counted, regardless of the evidence that exists regarding the election, and regardless of whether there was ever fair review of what happened in the election, by judges and/or state legislatures.

So here’s the scenario we propose:

1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session (or Senate Pro Tempore Grassley, if Pence recuses himself), begins to open and count the ballots, starting with Alabama (without conceding that the procedure, specified by the Electoral Count Act, of going through the States alphabetically is required).

2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.

3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well.

5. One last piece. Assuming the Electoral Count Act process is followed and, upon getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their separate chambers, we should not allow the Electoral Count Act constraint on debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining the rules of the present one — a constitutional no-no (as Tribe has forcefully argued). So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules (which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate of electors, if they had not already done so.

6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission – either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side challenge his actions in court, where Tribe (who in 2001 conceded the President of the Senate might be in charge of counting the votes) and others who would press a lawsuit would have their past position -- that these are non-justiciable political questions – thrown back at them, to get the lawsuit dismissed. The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind.
 
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saintpaulguy

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I have no idea if any of this is true, but is is fascinating.
 




Spoofin

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It's troubling. But enough talking about it. Now about Antifa....!
I'm trying to grasp your point here. I don't think it is a secret that Trump was looking for ways to remain in office. If this is news to you then maybe the many lawsuits filed and the constant rhetoric about a "stolen election" should have tipped you off. Now, because some lawyer drafted a "plan" it is suddenly more likely that it could have happened? Was it as close to happening with this "plan" as it was on 1/6? Its all hysteria. You truly are the equivalent of CRG and Beegs with conspiracies. This "plan" was never going to work no matter what CNN tells you Howie. Just like all the other plans didn't work and were never going to work. Biden won the election and none of the nonsense was ever going to change that.
As for you playing the victim with your "enough talking about it" take - you haven't shut the fuck up about it for over 10-months now. You talk about it every single day. Hysteria be damned.
 

stocker08

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I'm trying to grasp your point here. I don't think it is a secret that Trump was looking for ways to remain in office. If this is news to you then maybe the many lawsuits filed and the constant rhetoric about a "stolen election" should have tipped you off. Now, because some lawyer drafted a "plan" it is suddenly more likely that it could have happened? Was it as close to happening with this "plan" as it was on 1/6? Its all hysteria. You truly are the equivalent of CRG and Beegs with conspiracies. This "plan" was never going to work no matter what CNN tells you Howie. Just like all the other plans didn't work and were never going to work. Biden won the election and none of the nonsense was ever going to change that.
As for you playing the victim with your "enough talking about it" take - you haven't shut the fuck up about it for over 10-months now. You talk about it every single day. Hysteria be damned.

"Nobody is behind the scenes trying to overturn the election. Especially not my fellow Trumpublicans!"
 



Ogee Oglethorpe

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Trump did win.
Trump didn't win. He just had more actual real live voters vote for him than Grandpa Joe. But after the dust settled and some more 'votes' got counted, he ended up not winning.
 



Gopher_In_NYC

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The republic wasn’t saved because Pence certified the election.

I'm trying to grasp your point here. I don't think it is a secret that Trump was looking for ways to remain in office. If this is news to you then maybe the many lawsuits filed and the constant rhetoric about a "stolen election" should have tipped you off. Now, because some lawyer drafted a "plan" it is suddenly more likely that it could have happened? Was it as close to happening with this "plan" as it was on 1/6? Its all hysteria. You truly are the equivalent of CRG and Beegs with conspiracies. This "plan" was never going to work no matter what CNN tells you Howie. Just like all the other plans didn't work and were never going to work. Biden won the election and none of the nonsense was ever going to change that.
As for you playing the victim with your "enough talking about it" take - you haven't shut the fuck up about it for over 10-months now. You talk about it every single day. Hysteria be damned.
1632250248205.png
 


saintpaulguy

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Trump Campaign Knew Lawyers’ Voting Machine Claims Were Baseless, Memo Shows​

Days before lawyers allied with Donald Trump gave a news conference promoting election conspiracy theories, his campaign had determined that many of those claims were false, court filings reveal.

By Alan Feuer
Sept. 21, 2021, 2:11 p.m. ET
Two weeks after the 2020 election, a team of lawyers closely allied with Donald J. Trump held a widely watched news conference at the Republican Party’s headquarters in Washington. At the event, they laid out a bizarre conspiracy theory claiming that a voting machine company had worked with an election software firm, the financier George Soros and Venezuela to steal the presidential contest from Mr. Trump.
But there was a problem for the Trump team, according to court documents released on Monday evening.
By the time the news conference occurred on Nov. 19, Mr. Trump’s campaign had already prepared an internal memo on many of the outlandish claims about the company, Dominion Voting Systems, and the separate software company, Smartmatic. The memo had determined that those allegations were untrue.
The court papers, which were initially filed late last week as a motion in a defamation lawsuit brought against the campaign and others by a former Dominion employee, Eric Coomer, contain evidence that officials in the Trump campaign were aware early on that many of the claims against the companies were baseless.

The documents also suggest that the campaign sat on its findings about Dominion even as Sidney Powell and other lawyers attacked the company in the conservative media and ultimately filed four federal lawsuits accusing it of a vast conspiracy to rig the election against Mr. Trump.
According to emails contained in the documents, Zach Parkinson, then the campaign’s deputy director of communications, reached out to subordinates on Nov. 13 asking them to “substantiate or debunk” several matters concerning Dominion. The next day, the emails show, Mr. Parkinson received a copy of a memo cobbled together by his staff from what largely appear to be news articles and public fact-checking services.

Even though the memo was hastily assembled, it rebutted a series of allegations that Ms. Powell and others were making in public. It found:
  • That Dominion did not use voting technology from the software company, Smartmatic, in the 2020 election.
  • That Dominion had no direct ties to Venezuela or to Mr. Soros.
  • And that there was no evidence that Dominion’s leadership had connections to left-wing “antifa” activists, as Ms. Powell and others had claimed.
As Mr. Coomer’s lawyers wrote in their motion in the defamation suit, “The memo produced by the Trump campaign shows that, at least internally, the Trump campaign found there was no evidence to support the conspiracy theories regarding Dominion” and Mr. Coomer.
Even at the time, many political observers and voters, Democratic and Republican alike, dismissed the efforts by Ms. Powell and other pro-Trump lawyers like Rudolph W. Giuliani as a wild, last-ditch attempt to appease a defeated president in denial of his loss. But the false theories they spread quickly gained currency in the conservative media and endure nearly a year later.

It is unclear if Mr. Trump knew about or saw the memo; still, the documents suggest that his campaign’s communications staff remained silent about what it knew of the claims against Dominion at a moment when the allegations were circulating freely.
“The Trump campaign continued to allow its agents,” the motion says, “to advance debunked conspiracy theories and defame” Mr. Coomer, “apparently without providing them with their own research debunking those theories.”


Eric Coomer, a former Dominion Voting Systems employee, was accused of playing a role in a conspiracy to breach voting machines and reverse the 2020 election’s outcome. Credit...Bob Andres/Atlanta Journal-Constitution via Associated Press
Mr. Coomer, Dominion’s onetime director of product strategy and security, sued Ms. Powell, Mr. Giuliani, the Trump campaign and others last year in state district court in Denver. He has said that after the election, he was wrongly accused by a right-wing podcast host of hacking his company’s systems to ensure Mr. Trump’s defeat and of then telling left-wing activists that he had done so.
Soon after the host, Joe Oltmann, made these accusations, they were seized upon and amplified by Ms. Powell and Mr. Giuliani, who were part of a self-described “elite strike force” of lawyers leading the charge in challenging Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory.
On Nov. 19, for example, Ms. Powell and Mr. Giuliani appeared together at the news conference at the Republican National Committee’s headquarters and placed Mr. Coomer at the center of a plot to hijack the election by hacking Dominion’s voting machines. By Ms. Powell’s account that day, the conspiracy included Smartmatic, Venezuelan officials, people connected to Mr. Soros and a “massive influence of communist money.”
Ms. Powell and Mr. Giuliani did not respond to messages seeking comment on the documents. Representatives for Mr. Trump also did not respond to emails seeking comment.

Mr. Trump continues to falsely argue that the election was stolen from him, and in recent months Ms. Powell and Mr. Giuliani have stuck by their claims that the election was rife with fraud. A lawyer for Mr. Giuliani said in a court filing last month that at least some of his claims of election fraud were “substantially true.”
And as recently as three weeks ago, Ms. Powell told a reporter for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation that the 2020 election was “essentially a bloodless coup where they took over the presidency of the United States without a single shot being fired.”
It remains unclear how widely the memo was circulated among Trump campaign staff members. According to the court documents, Mr. Giuliani said in a deposition that he had not seen the memo before he gave his presentation in Washington, and he questioned the motives of those who had prepared it.

Trump’s Bid to Subvert the Election​


Card 4 of 4
A monthslong campaign. During his last days in office, President Donald J. Trump and his allies undertook an increasingly urgent effort to undermine the election results. That wide-ranging campaign included perpetuating false and thoroughly debunked claims of election fraud as well as pressing government officials for help.
Baseless claims of voter fraud. Although Mr. Trump’s allegations of a stolen election have died in the courts and election officials of both parties from every state have said there is no evidence of fraud, Republicans across the country continued to spread conspiracy theories. Those include 147 House Republicans who voted against certifying the election.
Intervention at the Justice Department. Rebuffed by ranking Republicans and cabinet officials like Attorney General William P. Barr, who stepped down weeks before his tenure was to end, Mr. Trump sought other avenues to peddle his unfounded claims. In a bid to advance his personal agenda, Mr. Trump plotted to oust the acting attorney general and pressed top officials to declare that the election was corrupt. His chief of staff pushed the department to investigate an array of outlandish and unfounded conspiracy theories that held that Mr. Trump had been the victor.
Pressuring state officials to 'find votes.' As the president continued to refuse to concede the election, his most loyal backers proclaimed Jan. 6, when Congress convened to formalize Mr. Biden's electoral victory, as a day of reckoning. On that day, Mr. Trump delivered an incendiary speech to thousands of his supporters hours before a mob of loyalists violently stormed the Capitol.

“They wanted Trump to lose because they could raise more money,” Mr. Giuliani was quoted as saying in the deposition.
\
But at the time that the internal report was prepared, Mr. Giuliani and Ms. Powell were both “active supervisors,” as he put it in his deposition, in the Trump campaign’s broader plan to challenge the election results — an effort that eventually included more than 60 failed lawsuits filed across the country. While Ms. Powell soon went her own way in claiming that Dominion had conspired to steal the election, Mr. Giuliani continued working closely with Mr. Trump and his campaign, ultimately changing strategies and seeking to persuade state legislatures to overturn the popular vote.
The motion notes that “the lines were blurred” as to whom Ms. Powell was working for at the time: herself, her nonprofit organization or the Trump campaign. Almost immediately after she promoted the conspiracy theory about Dominion at the news conference in November, Mr. Trump sought to distance himself from her. But by December, as Mr. Trump’s legal options narrowed, the former president considered bringing her back into the fold and discussed whether to appoint her as a special counsel overseeing an investigation of voter fraud.
The release of the documents was only the latest legal trouble for Mr. Giuliani and Ms. Powell, both of whom have been sued directly by Dominion for defamation. Dominion has also brought a defamation suit against Mike Lindell, the chief executive of MyPillow, for amplifying false election claims. Last month, a federal judge in Washington ruled that the cases could continue moving toward trial.

About the same time, a federal judge in Detroit ordered penalties to be levied against Ms. Powell and eight other pro-Trump lawyers — Mr. Giuliani was not among them — who filed a lawsuit that sought to overturn the election results in Michigan using the false claims about Dominion.
“This case was never about fraud,” the judge, Linda V. Parker, wrote in her decision. “It was about undermining the people’s faith in our democracy and debasing the judicial process to do so.”
In June, a New York court suspended Mr. Giuliani’s law license, ruling that he had made “demonstrably false and misleading statements” while fighting the results of last year’s election for Mr. Trump.
Even recently, the new court documents say, former Trump campaign officials have continued to cling to the baseless notion that the election was marred by fraud.
When lawyers for Mr. Coomer asked Sean Dollman, a representative of the Trump campaign, in a deposition if the campaign still believed that the election was fraudulent, he answered, “Yes, sir.”
The lawyers then asked, “What is that opinion based on?”
According to the court documents, Mr. Dollman gave a less than certain answer.
“We have no underlying definite facts that it wasn’t,” he said.
Susan Dominus, Shay Castle and Mindy Sink contributed reporting.
 


GopherJake

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I'm trying to grasp your point here. I don't think it is a secret that Trump was looking for ways to remain in office. If this is news to you then maybe the many lawsuits filed and the constant rhetoric about a "stolen election" should have tipped you off. Now, because some lawyer drafted a "plan" it is suddenly more likely that it could have happened? Was it as close to happening with this "plan" as it was on 1/6? Its all hysteria. You truly are the equivalent of CRG and Beegs with conspiracies. This "plan" was never going to work no matter what CNN tells you Howie. Just like all the other plans didn't work and were never going to work. Biden won the election and none of the nonsense was ever going to change that.
As for you playing the victim with your "enough talking about it" take - you haven't shut the fuck up about it for over 10-months now. You talk about it every single day. Hysteria be damned.
It doesn't matter if it was going to work. If one Secretary of State or one Vice President or one Congressperson tips over on this nonsense, then we have an actual problem. Now we have to fend it off. It's hard enough fending off the fucking morons that have ZERO evidence behind their claims. Now allow them to advance somehow - even if still a losing argument - that brings it to another level of concern.

And it was written down. By a lawyer working for the President. And it was discussed and pushed on high level officials, including the Vice President. This is not even close to conspiracy. It is simple fact, @Spoofin.

If Democrats ever pull this, I can tell you that I will be screaming at the top of my lungs for them to stop. And I would be right behind the likes of @ShillGA1, @Cant Stop Rican Gopher and all the other meatheads that push actual conspiracy theories. Because their mindset can only see red and blue.
 

Spoofin

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It doesn't matter if it was going to work. If one Secretary of State or one Vice President or one Congressperson tips over on this nonsense, then we have an actual problem. Now we have to fend it off. It's hard enough fending off the fucking morons that have ZERO evidence behind their claims. Now allow them to advance somehow - even if still a losing argument - that brings it to another level of concern.

And it was written down. By a lawyer working for the President. And it was discussed and pushed on high level officials, including the Vice President. This is not even close to conspiracy. It is simple fact, @Spoofin.

If Democrats ever pull this, I can tell you that I will be screaming at the top of my lungs for them to stop. And I would be right behind the likes of @ShillGA1, @Cant Stop Rican Gopher and all the other meatheads that push actual conspiracy theories. Because their mindset can only see red and blue.
Yes Jake - many people (I'd say most, but don't want to get stuck on that point) have been objecting to this effort for a long time. This letter written by his lawyer (giving the benefit of the doubt that is what this was) wasn't anything we didn't already know. We all knew Trump was looking for ways to stay in office. There have been how many lawsuits, audits, stories, etc.? Hell, even DT hasn't made an effort to hide that fact. This is old news. Trump Lost. He was a sore loser. He tried to overturn the election. It all failed. It never stood a chance. Now 10-months later this letter changes things somehow?
 

GopherJake

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Yes Jake - many people (I'd say most, but don't want to get stuck on that point) have been objecting to this effort for a long time. This letter written by his lawyer (giving the benefit of the doubt that is what this was) wasn't anything we didn't already know. We all knew Trump was looking for ways to stay in office. There have been how many lawsuits, audits, stories, etc.? Hell, even DT hasn't made an effort to hide that fact. This is old news. Trump Lost. He was a sore loser. He tried to overturn the election. It all failed. It never stood a chance. Now 10-months later this letter changes things somehow?
Ok, Leslie Nielsen.
 

saintpaulguy

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It doesn't matter if it was going to work. If one Secretary of State or one Vice President or one Congressperson tips over on this nonsense, then we have an actual problem. Now we have to fend it off. It's hard enough fending off the fucking morons that have ZERO evidence behind their claims. Now allow them to advance somehow - even if still a losing argument - that brings it to another level of concern.

And it was written down. By a lawyer working for the President. And it was discussed and pushed on high level officials, including the Vice President. This is not even close to conspiracy. It is simple fact, @Spoofin.

If Democrats ever pull this, I can tell you that I will be screaming at the top of my lungs for them to stop. And I would be right behind the likes of @ShillGA1, @Cant Stop Rican Gopher and all the other meatheads that push actual conspiracy theories. Because their mindset can only see red and blue.
And they did this all knowing none of the claims had merit.
 

scools12

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I'm trying to grasp your point here. I don't think it is a secret that Trump was looking for ways to remain in office. If this is news to you then maybe the many lawsuits filed and the constant rhetoric about a "stolen election" should have tipped you off. Now, because some lawyer drafted a "plan" it is suddenly more likely that it could have happened? Was it as close to happening with this "plan" as it was on 1/6? Its all hysteria. You truly are the equivalent of CRG and Beegs with conspiracies. This "plan" was never going to work no matter what CNN tells you Howie. Just like all the other plans didn't work and were never going to work. Biden won the election and none of the nonsense was ever going to change that.
As for you playing the victim with your "enough talking about it" take - you haven't shut the fuck up about it for over 10-months now. You talk about it every single day. Hysteria be damned.
Howie has no point but to continues his endless rehashing of something that was never going to happen.

When you have nothing else you keep going to back to the same old over and over again. It continues to feed the hysteria that democracy was in peril.
 
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