All things Derek Chauvin trial

GoldenRodents

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
1,822
Reaction score
415
Points
83
I agree 100% on this point. Chauvin looks like this is just routine procedure for him. A technique he's done this a thousand times.
That's why I can't fathom "depraved indifference" for this case.

Depraved indifference seems more like driving your car on the sidewalk, or putting opiods in someone's coffee.

Not something that happens all the time, but becomes lethal when the victim is gravely ill and tripping on hard synthetics.
 

USAF

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
3,849
Reaction score
3,894
Points
113
What explains his nonchalance in the video? This was standard operating procedure for him. Then he encountered Floyd, who looked very healthy but was hiding serious heart problems under that size and muscle. I bet Chauvin did the same routine scores of times to noncooperating suspects in his career.
So we're back to the "It's not a crime because he got away with it before" defense.

"Your honor, I plead not guilty, because I drove home drunk many times before this and never killed anyone."

His chalance, or non-chalance, isn't a factor in whether or not he murdered a man.

It certainly says a lot about his character, but that's not what's on trial.
 

GoldenRodents

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
1,822
Reaction score
415
Points
83
So we're back to the "It's not a crime because he got away with it before" defense.

"Your honor, I plead not guilty, because I drove home drunk many times before this and never killed anyone."

His chalance, or non-chalance, isn't a factor in whether or not he murdered a man.

It certainly says a lot about his character, but that's not what's on trial.
@USAF I am not saying Chauvin is innocent of negligence. I'm saying he appears to be overcharged. If he violated policy by not rendering aid then fire him and find a suitable manslaughter charge.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
7,898
Reaction score
3,729
Points
113
What explains his nonchalance in the video? This was standard operating procedure for him. Then he encountered Floyd, who looked very healthy but was hiding serious heart problems under that size and muscle. I bet Chauvin did the same routine scores of times to noncooperating suspects in his career.

Probably, that's what is really sick...

And some are surprised why people hate cops...
 

USAF

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
3,849
Reaction score
3,894
Points
113
@USAF I am not saying Chauvin is innocent of negligence. I'm saying he appears to be overcharged. If he violated policy by not rendering aid then fire him and find a suitable manslaughter charge.
He violated policy by applying deadly force when not necessary, killing someone.
 



Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
7,898
Reaction score
3,729
Points
113
@USAF I am not saying Chauvin is innocent of negligence. I'm saying he appears to be overcharged. If he violated policy by not rendering aid then fire him and find a suitable manslaughter charge.

Our justice system loves to make examples of people. Its standard operating procedure because the whole bs system is setup to force people to cop a plea otherwise it collapses. If everyone demands a trial it all implodes.

I was on jury duty once and the instructions and what they told us made me absolutely sick to my stomach. The system is setup for the benefit of lawyers primarily that was blatantly obvious. Which should be no surprise because its run by lawyers including the judge.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
7,898
Reaction score
3,729
Points
113
That's why I can't fathom "depraved indifference" for this case.

Depraved indifference seems more like driving your car on the sidewalk, or putting opiods in someone's coffee.

Not something that happens all the time, but becomes lethal when the victim is gravely ill and tripping on hard synthetics.
Exactly, this whole situation laid bare the "depraved indifference" of the system. The system was doing what it does and has always done, only this time there was video and witnesses who exposed it. And yet all these dumb f's still don't get why there were mass protests around the country.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
24,119
Reaction score
2,345
Points
113
So it isn’t likely that the police are basing their behavior on trying to save the city money.

I think they're trying to distance the MPD from this case, which has little to do with the city making a payout to the Floyd family.

If you're an upper echelon member of the MPD, life is going to be a lot easier in this 'defund the police" environment & impending riots, if the MPD does everything possible to claim Chauvin was just a rogue cop who didn't follow policy, & bury him publicly. What's the alternative? They back Chauvin & admit their training techniques led to Floyd's death?

Burying Chauvin publicly is probably a lot better for their careers as well? It's hard to imagine anything up till, or after this case, will define them as much as how they behave now with the national spotlight on them.
 



Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
7,898
Reaction score
3,729
Points
113
If you're an upper echelon member of the MPD, life is going to be a lot easier in this 'defund the police" environment & impending riots, if the MPD does everything possible to claim Chauvin was just a rogue cop who didn't follow policy, & bury him publicly. What's the alternative? They back Chauvin & admit their training techniques led to Floyd's death?

Yes, the alternative is to admit the whole system is fucked up. Power always protects itself, ALWAYS....
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
24,119
Reaction score
2,345
Points
113
I would venture to guess that no one in all human history has ever uttered the words I can't breathe when overdosing on opioids. By definition you aren't conscious enough to even know you can't or aren't breathing.
Opiods mixed with methamphetamine. A speedball. Here's George's girlfriend on the effects she felt from Morrie's Hall's pills that previous time they'd bought them....

"They looked different to me than a normal pill," she said. "They seemed thicker."

She told Nelson that they were not uniform in size, and had markings on them. Ross said she and Floyd both took them, and they had a different effect on her from previous pills.

"Usually an opioid to me is like a pain reliever, it's something that's kind of relaxing," she said. These pills were "a really strong stimulant, I couldn't sleep all night. I felt very jittery."


Derek Chauvin trial: Jury hears from George Floyd's girlfriend, police supervisor
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
24,119
Reaction score
2,345
Points
113
Yes, the alternative is to admit the whole system is fucked up. Power always protects itself, ALWAYS....

The state trained Chauvin how to handle the situation & what techniques to use. Now the state wants to sacrifice him, rather than having the spotlight shined on themselves. My 0.02

What we ought to be doing is having a conversation about the war on drugs. Subtract the WOD from the equation and Floyd never swallows the drugs, never goes into respiratory distress, never OD's & the cops never detain him.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
7,898
Reaction score
3,729
Points
113
What we ought to be doing is having a conversation about the war on drugs. Subtract the WOD from the equation and Floyd never swallows the drugs, never goes into respiratory distress, never OD's & the cops never detain him.

I agree 1000%. He also doesn't pass a counterfeit $20 to pay his dealer.
 





Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
24,119
Reaction score
2,345
Points
113
In one still frame after the paramedics arrived. By no means was that where his knee was throughout the encounter.

Ok, well that's a new wrinkle that was just added. Prior to this the claim was that Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's neck/carotid artery the entire time.

If what you're saying is true (it's just your opinion at this time), then it creates a bunch of new questions that require answers. How much of the 9+ minutes Floyd was restrained was the knee on the neck, vs knee on the shoulder blade? Was the pressure consistent, or was it variable? Was Chauvin trying to use the technique he'd been trained in, but did it poorly, or was this some rogue technique?
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
25,466
Reaction score
6,132
Points
113
Say he swallowed a bag of drugs to prevent being caught. And that would’ve killed him.

That means anyone is now allowed to kill him?

Nope. Still homocide.
 



Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
7,898
Reaction score
3,729
Points
113
Nope. Still homocide.

Maybe, maybe not. Most laws are based on intent.

The real issue beyond the trial is that Chauvin shouldn't have been a cop, I am absolutely positive that that would have been obvious to an unbiased observer. The scary thing is that he is likely the norm and how do we change that.
 
Last edited:



MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
25,466
Reaction score
6,132
Points
113
Most laws are based on intent.
3rd degree Murder in MN is not. Come on dude, this has been posted many times.

It’s the reason he already agreed to plea guilty to that.
 

BarnBurner

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
15,554
Reaction score
2,268
Points
113
I think they're trying to distance the MPD from this case, which has little to do with the city making a payout to the Floyd family.

If you're an upper echelon member of the MPD, life is going to be a lot easier in this 'defund the police" environment & impending riots, if the MPD does everything possible to claim Chauvin was just a rogue cop who didn't follow policy, & bury him publicly. What's the alternative? They back Chauvin & admit their training techniques led to Floyd's death?

Burying Chauvin publicly is probably a lot better for their careers as well? It's hard to imagine anything up till, or after this case, will define them as much as how they behave now with the national spotlight on them.
Nailed much of it.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
24,119
Reaction score
2,345
Points
113
So we're back to the "It's not a crime because he got away with it before" defense.

"Your honor, I plead not guilty, because I drove home drunk many times before this and never killed anyone."

His chalance, or non-chalance, isn't a factor in whether or not he murdered a man.

It certainly says a lot about his character, but that's not what's on trial.

You could just as easily argue it says a lot about Chauvin's professionalism. He stayed calm & did not get emotional. Just as the police are taught. Even with an angry crowd of people yelling at him & people filming. He stayed cool and followed his training.
 


USAF

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
3,849
Reaction score
3,894
Points
113
You could just as easily argue it says a lot about Chauvin's professionalism. He stayed calm & did not get emotional. Just as the police are taught. Even with an angry crowd of people yelling at him & people filming. He stayed cool and followed his training.
He most certainly did NOT follow his training. SHeesh.
 







Top Bottom