All things Derek Chauvin trial

Costa Rican Gopher

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With the trial now underway, I thought it'd be a good time to start a separate thread for this. Can anyone, using facts, explain why they believe George Floyd was "murdered"?
 

MplsGopher

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https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.​


(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.
 

MplsGopher

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Chauvin perpetrated an act eminently dangerous to another and evinced a depraved mind in doing so.
 




short ornery norwegian

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With the trial now underway, I thought it'd be a good time to start a separate thread for this. Can anyone, using facts, explain why they believe George Floyd was "murdered"?

I think it will all depend on the expert medical testimony. What is the official cause of death?
was the act of kneeling on his neck enough to kill Floyd on its own, or was it some combination of kneeling on the neck, pre-existing health conditions, and possible drug use/intoxication.

if the medical experts testify that Chauvin's actions directly led to Floyd's death, then I could see the Jury coming back with a murder conviction.

If the testimony indicates that the kneeling was a contributory factor, but not the primary cause of death, I could see manslaughter.
 

Wally

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With the trial now underway, I thought it'd be a good time to start a separate thread for this. Can anyone, using facts, explain why they believe George Floyd was "murdered"?

Because Chauvin agreed to plead guilty to third degree murder. How many innocent cops have you seen agree to plead guilty to murder?

It analogous to what some guy once said, if you plead the fifth it means your guilty.
 

MennoSota

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I avoid this as much as I can. It's a circus freak show with TV outlets playing the part of the barker.
I hope justice prevails and if justice is a not guilty verdict the radical left will not burn down Minneapolis again.
 




Section2

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Because Chauvin agreed to plead guilty to third degree murder. How many innocent cops have you seen agree to plead guilty to murder?

It analogous to what some guy once said, if you plead the fifth it means your guilty.
A lot of innocent people please guilty to all sorts of crimes.
 

Section2

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I avoid this as much as I can. It's a circus freak show with TV outlets playing the part of the barker.
I hope justice prevails and if justice is a not guilty verdict the radical left will not burn down Minneapolis again.
He’s getting convicted. Minneapolis will burn anyway.
 

atsgopher

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It is going to be extremely difficult for the defense to overcome the last witness today, when coupled with the video evidence.
 

MennoSota

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He’s getting convicted. Minneapolis will burn anyway.
If conviction is justice, then let him be convicted. I hope you are wrong about Minneapolis burning, though I'm afraid you may be correct.
 



Spoofin

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Because Chauvin agreed to plead guilty to third degree murder. How many innocent cops have you seen agree to plead guilty to murder?
My goal is to avoid posting much in this thread as I assume it is going to get really ugly. I hope Chauvin is convicted and sentenced to the max. With that said, your above statement is extremely ignorant and shows a lack of understanding of the process. Just a couple episodes of Law & Order would probably teach you why.
 


Costa Rican Gopher

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If the testimony indicates that the kneeling was a contributory factor, but not the primary cause of death, I could see manslaughter.

Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker, is the one who listed Floyd's caused of death as homicide.

Here are some of his comments from a memo recording the meeting between Baker,
Amy Sweasy & Patrick Lofton (both Hennepin County Prosecutors), that certainly indicate the fentanyl was at least a contributing factor:

Fentanyl: "That's pretty high". "This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd's lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances".

"AB said that if Mr. Floyd had been found dead in his home (or anywhere else) and there was no other contributing factors he would conclude that it was an overdose death"

Notes from conversation with Dr.AndrewBaker, Chief Hennepin County Medical Examin
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Because Chauvin agreed to plead guilty to third degree murder. How many innocent cops have you seen agree to plead guilty to murder?

It analogous to what some guy once said, if you plead the fifth it means your guilty.

The NeoLeft on full display.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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It is going to be extremely difficult for the defense to overcome the last witness today, when coupled with the video evidence.

Chauvin was using a standard tactic (kneeling) that he was taught to use by the MPD. It looked shocking to me when I fiurst saw it. Later, I learned it's a common everyday tactic used across the country & taught by the MPD.
 

atsgopher

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Chauvin was using a standard tactic (kneeling) that he was taught to use by the MPD, correct?
Well, I thought I read that before, but the prosecution in their opening statement alluded to an MPD witness that will testify that is false.
 


Minnesota

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Chauvin was using a standard tactic (kneeling) that he was taught to use by the MPD. It looked shocking to me when I fiurst saw it. Later, I learned it's a common everyday tactic used across the country & taught by the MPD.
Liccckkkkk
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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My take:

- Floyd was speedballing & that's playing Russian roulette with your life (ask John Belushi).

- In a previous arrest in 2019 Floyd swallowed an unknown drug which caused a “hypertensive emergency”, requiring him to "go to the hospital right away".

- Without knowing that fact, the police alleged Floyd did the same thing in this case. There is bodycam footage they claim proves it, but to me is inconclusive.

- If you haven't seen the second video that the prosecution withheld for months, it gives a different look at the arrest. Floyd resisted arrest, refusing to get out of his vehicle. The police were very patient with him. When the police finally pulled him from the car, it took 4-5 cops to get him into the police car. That was due to both his sheer size (6'6" 245lbs), but also to his refusing to cooperate.

- Once inside the police car, he began whimpering that he couldn't breathe. There was no one touching him. For several minutes he rocked back & forth saying "I can't breath", despite no one restraining him.

- Once outside the police car, Chauvin used the standard police tactic, taught to him by the MPD, of kneeling on Floyd's neck to subdue him.

- With what he know now, there's seems little doubt that Floyd swallowed his fentanyl, which would explain why he refused to get out of his car (he was busy swallowing his drugs), why he suddenly couldn't breathe in the back of the police car (it kicked in and he was now od'ing), why he had fatal level of fentanyl in his blood, and why a kneeling on him, a police tactic that normally would have done nothing but temporarily restrain Floyd, ended up killing him.

- Part of the outrage directed towards Chauvin stems from him not letting Floyd up when he said "I can't breathe". My take on this aspect changed after seeing the withheld video. To me it creates a reasonable doubt for Chauvin. i.e. If Floyd sat in the police car claiming he couldn't breathe when no one was restraining him, why would Chauvin believe it was suddenly real, now that he was being restrained?

- There's no doubt the fatal level of fentanyl Floyd had in him was in part, or fully responsible for his death. That still leaves the question of 'why didn't Chauvin react more quickly when Floyd went limp'? I need to hear the defense's response to that question, in order to understand what charges I might think he's guilty of.
 


MplsGopher

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It is going to be extremely difficult for the defense to overcome the last witness today, when coupled with the video evidence.
He already agreed to a plea deal for third degree.

And there is no way to prove intent.

Just convict on third already.


Then the real thing will be if the Minn Supreme Court rules that third degree can’t apply to specific actions against a single person. Would overturn Noor and Chauvin.
 

MplsGopher

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Chauvin was using a standard tactic (kneeling) that he was taught to use by the MPD. It looked shocking to me when I fiurst saw it. Later, I learned it's a common everyday tactic used across the country & taught by the MPD.
For almost nine minutes?

Literally nothing you can say. You lose.
 

Minnesota

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My take:

- Floyd was speedballing & that's playing Russian roulette with your life (ask John Belushi).

- In a previous arrest in 2019 Floyd swallowed an unknown drug which caused a “hypertensive emergency”, requiring him to "go to the hospital right away".

- Without knowing that fact, the police alleged Floyd did the same thing in this case. There is bodycam footage they claim proves it, but to me is inconclusive.

- If you haven't seen the second video that the prosecution withheld for months, it gives a different look at the arrest. Floyd resisted arrest, refusing to get out of his vehicle. The police were very patient with him. When the police finally pulled him from the car, it took 4-5 cops to get him into the police car. That was due to both his sheer size (6'6" 245lbs), but also to his refusing to cooperate.

- Once inside the police car, he began whimpering that he couldn't breathe. There was no one touching him. For several minutes he rocked back & forth saying "I can't breath", despite no one restraining him.

- Once outside the police car, Chauvin used the standard police tactic, taught to him by the MPD, of kneeling on Floyd's neck to subdue him.

- With what he know now, there's seems little doubt that Floyd swallowed his fentanyl, which would explain why he refused to get out of his car (he was busy swallowing his drugs), why he suddenly couldn't breathe in the back of the police car (it kicked in and he was now od'ing), why he had fatal level of fentanyl in his blood, and why a kneeling on him, a police tactic that normally would have done nothing but temporarily restrain Floyd, ended up killing him.

- Part of the outrage directed towards Chauvin stems from him not letting Floyd up when he said "I can't breathe". My take on this aspect changed after seeing the withheld video. To me it creates a reasonable doubt for Chauvin. i.e. If Floyd sat in the police car claiming he couldn't breathe when no one was restraining him, why would Chauvin believe it was suddenly real, now that he was being restrained?

- There's no doubt the fatal level of fentanyl Floyd had in him was in part, or fully responsible for his death. That still leaves the question of 'why didn't Chauvin react more quickly when Floyd went limp'? I need to hear the defense's response to that question, in order to understand what charges I might think he's guilty of.

A classic Craig ramble. Plenty of “We now know’s” and everything. He hasn’t been this aroused since he danced on Trayvon Martin’s grave. A very sick man.
 

short ornery norwegian

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CRG - as I said, a lot depends on the medical testimony. But, at the same time, Chauvin or his attorney are going to have to explain why he kept the pressure going on the neck after Floyd was handcuffed.

If you're trying to subdue a suspect who is actively resisting, that's one thing. But a suspect who is handcuffed and on the ground with several officers there to help restrain him makes the knee on the neck look like overkill, so to speak.

that will be another big point - the issue of proper police procedure. Will testimony establish that Chauvin followed proper procedure, or went beyond what is recommended?

And - if I recall, I believe the Judge has ruled that some issues with Floyd's past arrests and alleged drug use are not admissible.

(in an aside, I still want to know if they ever established whether the $20 bill was determined to be counterfeit or not. The defense attorney stated in his opening argument that it was counterfeit, so I hope he has evidence to back that up.)
 

Wally

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I avoid this as much as I can. It's a circus freak show with TV outlets playing the part of the barker.
I hope justice prevails and if justice is a not guilty verdict the radical left will not burn down Minneapolis again.

I am not paying attention at all. Except what I read here, the Sunday Star Tribune and what I hear on KFAN.
 

MplsGopher

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A classic Craig ramble. Plenty of “We now know’s” and everything. He hasn’t been this aroused since he danced on Trayvon Martin’s grave. A very sick man.
His 4chan fictionalization purposely pretends that the 9minutes didn’t happen.

That’s the only point where they can’t fake up a way out of it.

They know it. The defense knows it.

It is the case.


Floyd very likely is still alive if Chauvin just gets off his neck after a couple minutes.
 

atsgopher

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CRG - as I said, a lot depends on the medical testimony. But, at the same time, Chauvin or his attorney are going to have to explain why he kept the pressure going on the neck after Floyd was handcuffed.

If you're trying to subdue a suspect who is actively resisting, that's one thing. But a suspect who is handcuffed and on the ground with several officers there to help restrain him makes the knee on the neck look like overkill, so to speak.

that will be another big point - the issue of proper police procedure. Will testimony establish that Chauvin followed proper procedure, or went beyond what is recommended?

And - if I recall, I believe the Judge has ruled that some issues with Floyd's past arrests and alleged drug use are not admissible.

(in an aside, I still want to know if they ever established whether the $20 bill was determined to be counterfeit or not. The defense attorney stated in his opening argument that it was counterfeit, so I hope he has evidence to back that up.)
The Manager of Cup foods, on day of, stared it was still wet and one of the worst she’s ever seen.

I’m not sure this was ever in dispute.
 




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